The height of cheapness

balogh wrote:

Gents you may be right with this polemia on the merits of incandescent lights vs the ecologically (but not ergonomically)  justifiable (?) newtech bulbs,

Well, I keep asking all the people who say CFL's are ecologically better, but as of yet no one has been able to answer why filling my house and the landfills with mercury is good for my family or the environment.

The Mercury-Free Mark

batjac wrote:

balogh wrote:

Gents you may be right with this polemia on the merits of incandescent lights vs the ecologically (but not ergonomically)  justifiable (?) newtech bulbs,

Well, I keep asking all the people who say CFL's are ecologically better, but as of yet no one has been able to answer why filling my house and the landfills with mercury is good for my family or the environment.  

The Mercury-Free Mark

That is my biggest problem with CFL's.

I don't want to be a Mad Hatter. I am crazy enough already.

Phil

You should look at the trade-off between the mercury contamination, and energy savings with the CFL-s. Two different features though, not easy to compare

I for one don't like the 'Man' telling what to buy either, but I have found some uses for LED bulbs. Like in my kitchen, I have 7-8 flood type can lights, they heat up the house so much the AC will come on during a 60deg. (F) day. The flood bulbs will burn out in about a year and cost about $8 ea. I paid $15 each for the LED's and have not had one burn out in years. The cost savings in a year paid for the extra to buy the LED's, not to mention the AC bill. They work well for me.

Now the plumbing issue is a no brainer. We only have so much water and a growing population. That said, we shouldn't have to have poor working plumbing fixtures. I, like Richard, make my living in this field. You can find fixtures that work great on low flow and save us money. I'm not a 'Greener', but I do like saving money. The 1.6GPM toilets work very well if you search for toilets with over a 1000g BPPA test. And I run shower heads on 1.5GPM that you would never know were not 2.5GPM.

Actually, life isn't as bleak as it seems.

The compact fluorescents (CPF's) will save money. I ran some calculations on the house about 12 years years ago, when the price was about $4.50 a pop on sale. I found out that by not having to replace the bulbs over a period of time, it was something like 8 or 10 years, that it wasn't the electricity, which we were paying around $0.05 US per kWh here in Clovis, NM (in contrast to those on the US east coast who were paying around $0.18 per kWh). The shorter life span of the incandescent bulb was the cost culprit. The CPF's, rated at like 6,000 hours or more, paid for themselves by being cheaper in the long run. Those in higher electric cost areas will benefit even more.

Those who need incandescents, the more expensive Halogen lighting replacement bulbs (same technology as your car headlights) are supposedly being released. They are more energy efficient (although less efficient than the CPF's, 40% less energy versus CPF's 75% less energy), produce more light per Watt and last longer than standard incandescents. Thus, as far as I know, those with incandescent light dimmers will be able to still control lighting with the Halogens.

So life isn't as bleak as it seems, and I have picked up CPF's on sale as cheap as a box of 6 for $2 or $3 a box. You just have to keep a watchful eye and pick them up when the sales or clearances hit.

Mind you though that the fluorescent CPF's will dim with age. Some that I installed ten years ago in high use areas such as the bathrooms and entrance hall needed replacement. Lighting degraded to less than half new output. In less used areas, they will last longer of course. The darkened glass is a good tipoff.

CPF's do require warm up to full brilliance, usually in a couple minutes. When you first turn them on, they may seem a little dim. Wait a couple minutes and that will change. It takes a little bit for the gas inside the bulb to fully ionize.

One advantage to CPF's is that many residential lighting fixtures have a maximum Wattage rating. This is because the wiring insulation can't stand the heat of higher wattage incandescent bulbs. I've removed lighting fixtures of where someone used 100 Watt bulbs when they should have used 60 Watts max. The fixture's wiring insulation crumbled, good reason for a short circuit and possible fire.

You can put a 26 Watt CPF that puts out the light of a 100 Watt incandescent in one rated for 60 Watt incandescents. You could even put a 55 Watt CPF that puts out the lighting of a 250 Watt bulb (if it will fit). More light and less heat is put out by the CPF than incandescents.

There is a caveat to CPF's and LED's, though. Unless recently changed due to manufacturing design changes, you can't use an incandescent dimmer switch with them. You must use dimmers that are rated for them, and the bulbs must be rated to use a dimmer switch. You could damage the bulbs and you won't get the dimming results you expect.

Also, again unless there's been improvements, fluorescent dimmers (at least those for ceiling fluorescent tubes) generally provide from 50% to 100% lighting. You can't get less than 50% light like you could with the incandescents. Reason is the gas inside the light has a minimum voltage potential that below which it won't ionize.

Hope this helps.

Thought about this thread today. Bought 3 new LED lights to try out. The appear pleasant in color, but man do they hurt the wallet initially!

I also bought a dozen 40W "ceiling fan" light bulbs since they were on sale and I use this size in drop lights and the crawl space...and as heaters when needed.

Phil

I found that cheapness is usually it's own reward.   

SD

SuperDave wrote:I found that cheapness is usually it's own reward.    

SD

Sometimes cheapness forces a repurchase of the failed stuff the following day/week. I installed a drift fence in the side yard using U posts to save what amounted to $20. A couple days later I was buying the more expensive T posts since half the U posts folded in the wind...

Phil

Phil:

Precisely my point!

A job worth doing is worth doing right.

SD

pkrankow wrote:

There is supposed to be a flow restricter in the shower head that prevents more water than 2.5 gallon per minute so the flow adjustment of the faucet is not "necessary".

However most flow restricters are a insert that can be removed without special tools, so someone could easily have removed said device...

Phil

Do I need to point out the quotes on "necessary"?

Have gotten pretty good at "adjusting" the flow restrictors. Some of them are pretty vicious, but in the end they all succumb to the PV Pilot takedown. Gotta hand it to the man, he can even decide that folks off the grid on well water need to be conservative. Regardless, it should be the users choice on restricting water flow no matter where you live. They still get paid for water usage.

PV Pilot wrote:

pkrankow wrote:

There is supposed to be a flow restricter in the shower head that prevents more water than 2.5 gallon per minute so the flow adjustment of the faucet is not "necessary".

However most flow restricters are a insert that can be removed without special tools, so someone could easily have removed said device...

Phil

Do I need to point out the quotes on "necessary"?

Have gotten pretty good at "adjusting" the flow restrictors.  Some of them are pretty vicious, but in the end they all succumb to the PV Pilot takedown.  Gotta hand it to the man, he can even decide that folks off the grid on well water need to be conservative.  Regardless, it should be the users choice on restricting water flow no matter where you live.  They still get paid for water usage.

I drill out the brass valve body and the shower head itself to get a nice flow, you can't run it full it will blow your hair clean off your head, use "vintage" toilets also.

My first run in with LED replacement bulbs is with my outdoor perimeter lighting. I run five two bulb motion sensing flood fixtures, 10 90w floods bulbs total.
I just went to replace the halogen flood bulbs, Home Depo wants 47$ each for a 90 w equivalent Par 38 LED. Thats 470$ for 10 bulbs, the idea that I'll ever recoup the bulb cost by saving
elec. bill is false, not in my lifetime. They don't run that much.

Eazy Bender,,don't want the restrictor police to show up. But since you mentioned it, This Old House had a repipe about 3 yrs ago, good for 110psi at the tap now with the new subermerged 220 psi pump with voltage coyote circuit breaker. Also a New heater that was restrictor adjusted. Running it at 95 psi tap due to the slight hill climb. You want less water?,, it hurts your back???,,,ehhh, just turn the control knob down a bit. See how easy that was.

I just replaced the adjustable shower head arm in the tub, the shower head has a small restrictor gasket in it that had appx. 3/16" opening, the new arm had a gasket with three small holes in it, thinking this would equal the flow of the restrictor in the showerhead I didn't remove it...wow, now its just like the hotels, no water flow! Grab the Dremel and opened up the gaskets slightly what a difference in pressure, still on the conservative side, but a lot more usable.

http://www.amazon.com/52685-PK-Universal-Components-Adjustable-Showerhead/dp/B006FYAM5I/ref=pd_sim_hi_2

PV's not so secret now adj shower head.  Bought 3 and they down pour really nice. Gave one as a gift last year  Broke it down and put waterproof grease on the seals. joints lock by wing nuts pulling tapered plug bolts thru the seals and washers. They lock and stay or set easy tension to be able to move it to your liking.  No spraying leaks so far.  The dark 1/2" endpiece you see is the start of the 3 hole restrictor and it yields easy to a centered pin punch then progressive bits. Bore that out, reassemble with waterproof,  teflon tape and install, enjoy.  Really handy when you are 6'4".

lol, ditto! that basically the arm I was talking about and used same operation to open up, but the last one only lasted for 2-3 years as the kids would adjust it without loosening wingnuts and actually stripped threads....I used to be 6'3'' but I'm starting to shrink as I get older and wider.

How to drill out a shower head  by crankbndr


I got my new shower head today, during  inspection I found a toothpick would not even fit in the outlet hole.
I say I can fix this Fed. regulated, EPA approved, Al Gore asskissen, tree huggen lover, POS!




 19/64 is about as large as I can go! Wow the brass cuts easily!





Now I have a shower head that actually works.
Don't try this at home, some needle[bleep] will say is against the law!

I dunno. For me, to shower can mean anything from a bucket full of water out in the field to a plush bathroom (or comfort room to those in the Far East). I've got one of those brass nozzel spray heads installed 12 years ago. It still works fine. I like them because they make a 40 gallon hot water tank supply last long, when I am lazy and just love to feel the warm water hit me. In various homes we rented, I replaced the old worn out disfunctional (don't know why land lords don't like to replace) non-water savings shower heads. I ran out of hot water quickly.

So, there is more to the madness than simply saving water costs.  

Mark Boesen wrote:lol, ditto! that basically the arm I was talking about and used same operation to open up, but the last one only lasted for 2-3 years as the kids would adjust it without loosening wingnuts and actually stripped threads....I used to be 6'3'' but I'm starting to shrink as I get older and wider.

Mark:

Did you ever consider you WIFE just wore you down?   

It happens to the best of us.   

SD

With all due respect to my buddy in Clovis NM

I, like many, object to the government dictating to me what is best for me and my family

We have, for the last twenty years, enjoyed a rural water co-op that fortunately has a 8" main running down our county road that is metered to me with 3/4" pipe to the house. Average PSI is 75 with a high of 96 and a low of 55.

All 3 of our kids and both of us were/are long hair (kids now on their own). I replaced the 25 year old 40 gal hot water heater with a more efficient 120 Gal unit that I added a secondary thermal blanket to.

The cost of our electricity before and after the upgrade was not significantly impacted as the new unit was a lot more efficient

I replaced the stupid single lever shower controls with old school twin valve system so we can control the mix AND Volume

If need be I can de-grease a V8 engine block in my shower, or take a leisurely long hot shower with enough volume and heat to rinse all the soap and conditioner out of my long hair and at the same time a guest or family member can also take a shower or flush a toilet and not impact the other person

All "flow control" or so called 1.2GPM faucets and shower heads are immediately re-engineered for max flow before installation

While ranting... I have been investing in LED lighting....my experience with the CFL was not favorable...they are just as hot, lower light, do not last noticeably longer in MOST on and off locations and were / are significantly higher price than the incandescent equivalent

Out here hazmat disposal is a problem and I made such a fuss about it that now the once a year county hazmat day will accept dead CFLs ( I had about 25 to be rid of)

Not a tree hugger---- but I sure wish I had not done some things in the past like anti freeze and used engine oil on the ground.... Each CFL has only a small amount of Mercury...scale that up to each citizen disposing of 3 to 5 per year and you might be amazed at the TONNAGE of Mercury introduced into OUR environment...Government NEVER factors the unintentional consequences

"Government NEVER factors the unintentional consequences" - Fred

Truer words were never written.

Another example, the "water-saving toilets that usually require a "double-flush" to do the job satisfactorilly.

SD

SuperDave wrote:"Government NEVER factors the unintentional consequences" - Fred

Truer words were never written.

Another example, the "water-saving toilets that usually require a "double-flush" to do the job satisfactorilly.

SD

Now that's funny. I have purchased and installed 3 (4 if you count the one that my brother now has since it was the wrong color in the bathroom remodel) Cadet III toilets by American Standard, and have NEVER had a clog and in the utmost rare occasions need a double flush.

In fact the plunger has been relegated to the basement since it has not been used in almost a year since changing out the last old 5 gallon flush toilet (with the other wrong color toilet). The "wrong color" toilets were in service for just over 4 years before I remodeled that "jack and jill" bathroom area without clog or more than rare use of double flushing.

That said, I have used some rather unpleasant low-flow toilets. I would say many models, but not all, are superior to the old high volume models. The Cadet III gets my recommendation.

Phil

fredvon4 wrote:With all due respect to my buddy in Clovis NM I, like many, object to the government dictating to me what is best for me and my family

Actually, what concerns me about our government is the emphasis on the minor and lack of emphasis on things that really count, that are government responsibility. For example, in New Mexico, the state legislature just passed a law making it a crime to text while driving. There is already a law on the books dating back to 1953 that covers it.

New Mexico Statutes, Chapter 66, Motor Vehicles; Article 8, Crimes, Penalties and Procedures; Part 2, Traffic Offenses; 66-8-114. Careless driving. wrote:
A. Any person operating a vehicle on the highway shall give his full time and entire attention to the operation of the vehicle.
B. Any person who operates a vehicle in a careless, inattentive or imprudent manner, without due regard for the width, grade, curves, corners, traffic, weather and road conditions and all other attendant circumstances is guilty of a misdemeanor.
History: 1953 Comp., § 64-22-3.1, enacted by Laws 1969, ch. 169, § 12; recompiled as 1953 Comp., § 64-8-114, by Laws 1978, ch. 35, § 522.

Why don't they just simply put out the word, that anyone caught texting while driving is in violation of the current law and will be cited, and enforce it?

I'm more concerned that the government is not taking care of the rapes, murders, thefts, etc. What is even more alarming is those released from prison who were wrongly imprisoned, vindicated by DNA evidence. One spent 30 years behind bars because of a false sentence. It is not just one or two, but hundreds of cases.

I'd rather they be taking care of essential business than issues that pretty much so could take care of themselves through local governance, such as water savings devices. It may be prudent in a place like New Mexico where that water is hard to find. Someone living where water is plentious doesn't need to have big brother dictating to them what doesn't apply.

The saddest thing is that we the people have put these people into office, who are focusing on social welfare to those who are capable of work and don't need it, giving away our money to foreign nations without benefit to the American people, and not spending the money where it needs to be spent on, government protecting our rights, our freedoms, our lives, our properties.

I'd say more, but I am turning this into a political thread.