Re: Tach Race 2015 The Mouse Class!

Paulgibeault Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:42 am

GENTLEMEN!

What a fabulous effort by Kim & his Crew! Thank you for hosting this. Congratulations all around especially to Aussie Rod, our new winner.
What did you do right you ask?

1. You decided to enter even though you didn't plan on winning. "You can't win watching the fun from the side lines"
2. You KEPT GOING even though you damaged parts & even blew up the engine when the reed retainer came adrift.
3. You weren't afraid to keep MIXING & MATCHING PARTS as was certainly necessary.
4. You didn't buy into the: "you have to use a special head to go fast". Yea Olde Cox TeeDee head (from Bernie) is hard to beat for consistency, isn't it!
** The top three engines used a Cox head to good effect**
5. Finally from my Australian Speed flier & engine mentor, Peter Tilley. " When it comes to going fast... It's ALL in the prop & half in the engine".
That means the "right prop" matched for the purpose, makes for a REAL game changer. Can you imagine what 3 of these in the AMA Nats Mouse Final sounded like whizzing by in the same circle for 100 laps! It was absolutely exquisite!!

I will say that I would never have guessed the RPM's would turn out to be as high as they were. I've never seen more than 23,300 on 65% nitro at sea level on my VERY best mouse engine... My current motors won't even do near this anymore. My wife Dianne's motor (at home) only turns 21,500 at best... So the extra 2,000 RPM must have come from somewhere... I must conclude that the weather must have been excellent, the fuel excellent, and the prop excellent. There are unknowns, like the accuracy of the Tach, but to be out by 2,000 RPM is quite a stretch... So I cannot explain the HIGH RPM numbers. Bottom line though, it doesn't matter as long as the variables are consistent which of course they were. I can HARDLY wait for UNLIMITED!!

Cheers,

Paul (a.k.a. Mr. Mouse)

(Say Rod, I'm planning to drop by Sydney & Perth next year... would love to shake your hand & buy you a cold one. Maybe we could even talk shop over a 'Barbie'.)

getback Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:29 am

Congratulations ROD !!! Man that is some outstanding numbers ! Good job Guys this is a real competitive adventure Small Cox Logo

Looking forward to the next rounds . Kim you the MAN Thumbs Up

**RknRusty** Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:15 am

Congratulations to everyone.
I thought mine, having seen it turn over 21k at home had a chance. After not being run or even opened up for two years, I never expected I'd go 21.17k. And have five engines faster than mine. Way faster. That was the one I built on camera following Paul's guidelines. I wouldn't have mentioned that if it had been under 21. BTW, I tried to take that silly looking red head off but it was stuck.Lol.
Thanks Kim, that was fun.
Rusty

Kim Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:48 am

Paulgibeault wrote: There are unknowns, like the accuracy of the Tach, but to be out by 2,000 RPM is quite a stretch... So I cannot explain the HIGH RPM numbers. Bottom line though, it doesn't matter as long as the variables are consistent which of course they were. I can HARDLY wait for UNLIMITED!!

Cheers,

Paul (a.k.a. Mr. Mouse)

(Say Rod, I'm planning to drop by Sydney & Perth next year... would love to shake your hand & buy you a cold one. Maybe we could even talk shop over a 'Barbie'.)

Hey Paul,

To be sure, I thought pretty hard about a rerun to confirm what I was seeing on the GloBee, but compared to numbers I was already getting (Rod's was the fifth engine to run), his peak RPM was not totally out of the neighborhood. By rights, and everything I'd ever heard about engines, the humidity should have had a significant negative impact on the rpm's, but there they were, and so, I recorded them.

I knew I was in rare air with this race, and seeing the crazy numbers early on, I thought about ghost readings from the tach or even prop slippage, but the numbers were very steady, and the engine's sound (screaming) seemed in line also. I wanted to avoid any re-runs if possible, especially if the engine had cranked up and needled easily (the case for most of the Mouses)... for fear of damaging an engine that had already made an apparently legitimate run.

I'll be including the APC prop in Rod's return package, as a trophy/memento, in case he would like to recreate the run at home.

Thanks Guys

**Cribbs74** Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:06 pm

I had mentioned that the prop would have a big effect earlier in the planning stages and was dismissed... Wink

I will say I was expecting only a 1-1.5K jump in RPM though. The nitro helped a little I am sure.

Congrats to all you guys. And good job Rod!

Oldenginerod Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:55 pm

Paulgibeault wrote:
(Say Rod, I'm planning to drop by Sydney & Perth next year... would love to shake your hand & buy you a cold one. Maybe we could even talk shop over a 'Barbie'.)

Paul. Thanks for your kind & helpful comments. I appreciate it coming from you. I must say that I scanned your Mouse build tips thoroughly during the build, but I clearly lucked-out to a fair extent by inadvertently choosing just the right parts. It feels quite odd to have actually peaked faster than your own entry.

Regarding social contanct, I'd love to meet you, but the tyranny of distance may be against us. I'm in rural Victoria a fair way from Melbourne, a long way from Sydney & a long long long way from Perth. I tend to stay put and don't travel too far from home.
A "cold one" at a barbie would be appreciated as well, although, unlike most Aussies, that would mean a Ginger beer or Root beer as I don't touch the real stuff.
Cheers.
Rod.

(p.s. Do you know Peter White in Perth? Well known stunt flyer, designer & builder. Great guitar builder as well. He lived 5 minutes down the road from us before shifting to Perth.)

Marleysky Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:31 pm

[quote="Cribbs74"
I will say I was expecting only a 1-1.5K jump in RPM though. The nitro helped a little I am sure.
Congrats to all you guys. And good job Rod![/quote]

To borrow a catch phrase from a tv ad, we. should also to extend thanks to Hobbico and Dave for the "Awesome SAUCE "known as the new formula cox super fuel. I think that may have upped the tach readings a little Affraid or WOW!

Kim Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:21 pm

Hey Guys,

I got the Unlimited Class run through this afternoon and evening, and am posting the results with photos to follow tomorrow.

It was a much more difficult race to run this time, with a lot of time spent in the set-up required to get the different engines mounted properly, along with a bit of crankiness on the part of a few. One engine simply refused to start, and though I did give my best effort to getting it going, I still couldn't pull it off. I'd decided to save the use of the bladder system for the Tee Dee Entries in fairness to those engines unable to take advantage of it.

The numbers are definitely down from yesterday's, though one still fell just short of 24k.

I'm fairly fatigued and so am gonna just post them in order of their runs, and will get them stacked according to their placing tomorrow.

Mark Boesen...................23,970
Paul Gibeault...................22,700
Daryll White...................21,120
Doug Veazy....................23,100
TD Bandit......................22,350
Bernie..........................21,270
Matt w/ Ex Model Engines..20,160
Wayne Sievers...............DNS
Eric............................22,600
Augustin.......................15,800
Bill ............................23,340

I'll organize this a bit tomorrow, and also get the other classes run.

TDbandit Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:35 pm

"pats em on the back" at least it's all in fun hope mine wasn't too much of a biter btw.
Either way those are some impressive numbers folks great job!! Even mine turned better than I though, I was betting more in the line of 21k. (Bandit)

Oldenginerod Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:10 am

Seems to me that there may be significant merit in what Paul says about using an original Cox head. Top three Mouse had Cox heads and they beat most of the Unlimiteds, of which none had original heads. Clearly, assuming that the tach was reading correctly, and Kim used the correct fuel, the weather conditions are about the only other thing that could have had such an impact on the difference between the Mouse speeds and the Unlimited speeds. A little baffling Huh...

Rod.
(Owner of a new Black Widow- thanks Matt Clapping

)

TDbandit Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:35 am

Oldenginerod wrote:Seems to me that there may be significant merit in what Paul says about using an original Cox head. Top three Mouse had Cox heads and they beat most of the Unlimiteds, of which none had original heads. Clearly, assuming that the tach was reading correctly, and Kim used the correct fuel, the weather conditions are about the only other thing that could have had such an impact on the difference between the Mouse speeds and the Unlimited speeds. A little baffling

Rod.
(Owner of a new Black Widow- thanks Matt )

Agreed My original intention was to use a TD head but since most of my heads are on engines I decided on the Merlin style head since I've had luck with that style in the past. As far as weather, that could very well be a factor. most of my testing was in colder than normal conditions with significant humidity from almost constant rain so that hampered my testing a good bit plus it didn't help when I ran out of fuel lol another factor that I forgot about is since the base ingredient of all glow fuel is methanol, any moisture present in the air gets soaked up like a sponge so that screws with things too. Still i'm happy with how mine turned out I was betting more in line of 21,000rpm. (Bandit)

getback Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:04 am

Yeah !!! I see my Babes got there Clapping

Thank You Kim for all you do for us and COX ENGINE FORUM !!! Man that's a lot of work and pleasure of waiting on engines unboxing keeping up with who is who ,The running , then boxum up to get them back to there owners , documentation of the data and presentation . I would not want that job myself Warm

to you my friend , I Thank You !! Eric Small Cox Logo

crankbndr Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:21 am

Oldenginerod wrote:Seems to me that there may be significant merit in what Paul says about using an original Cox head. Top three Mouse had Cox heads and they beat most of the Unlimiteds, of which none had original heads. Clearly, assuming that the tach was reading correctly, and Kim used the correct fuel, the weather conditions are about the only other thing that could have had such an impact on the difference between the Mouse speeds and the Unlimited speeds. A little baffling

Rod.
(Owner of a new Black Widow- thanks Matt )

You are assuming the unlimited should be faster, not always so.

Oldenginerod Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:47 pm

crankbndr wrote:

You are assuming the unlimited should be faster, not always so.

I thought that was the idea? Huh...

Kim Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:05 pm

Hey Guys,

I ran the Babe Stock Class this afternoon, with all engines starting up pretty easily. Once again, Mark Boesen comes on strong with a 1st Place win at 16,230 with a Bee that looked new.

Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up - Page 10 2_19

Eric's shiny Bee came in a not too distant 2nd Place with 15,810.

Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up - Page 10 1_23

Rod's Australian Bee ran a middle range 15,650 for 3rd Place.

Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up - Page 10 1_24

Daryll White's Golden Bee turned up to 15,450 for 4th Place.

Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up - Page 10 1_25

Bob Dickerson's Bee ran a steady 15,420 for 5th Place.

Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up - Page 10 1_27

Doug Veazy's Golden Bee ran at 15,030 for 6th.

Tach Race 2015 Final Wrap-Up - Page 10 1_26

Tach Race 2015 Babe Bee Stock Class

Mark Boesen.............................16,230
Eric Beeson..............................15,810
Rod Boreham............................15,650
Daryll White.............................15,450
Bob Dickerson...........................15,420
Doug Veazy..............................15,030

Kim Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:06 pm

getback wrote:Yeah !!! I see my Babes got there Thank You Kim for all you do for us and COX ENGINE FORUM !!! Man that's a lot of work and pleasure of waiting on engines unboxing keeping up with who is who ,The running , then boxum up to get them back to there owners , documentation of the data and presentation . I would not want that job myself to you my friend , I Thank You !! Eric

Thank You Eric !!!

Oldenginerod Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:17 pm

Wow, a first and a third for me this year. I'm stoked! To think last year I came last & second last with more prep time.

Rod.

dckrsn Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:23 pm

Cool, that was fun. Closely grouped, top to bottom
seperated by only 1,200 rpms. Congrats Mark and
all the Bee'ers.
Again, thanks for hosting Kim.
You da man!
Bob

**Cribbs74** Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:48 pm

Congrats everyone!

Mark Boesen Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:54 pm

crankbndr wrote:
Oldenginerod wrote:Seems to me that there may be significant merit in what Paul says about using an original Cox head. Top three Mouse had Cox heads and they beat most of the Unlimiteds, of which none had original heads. Clearly, assuming that the tach was reading correctly, and Kim used the correct fuel, the weather conditions are about the only other thing that could have had such an impact on the difference between the Mouse speeds and the Unlimited speeds. A little baffling

Rod.
(Owner of a new Black Widow- thanks Matt )

You are assuming the unlimited should be faster, not always so.

My Unlimited had a #1702

We had fresh fuel (35% nitro) smallish props, and cold damp air, I'm not surprised RPM is up.

I think the secret to RPM, is a well matched piston/cylinder, ideal compression, and no mechanical errors, bad reeds, air leaks, loose ball socket, etc. If all those are present, you shouldn't see much difference between the classes (untill someone shows up with a ball bearing crank, etc.) the Bee tank seems to be able to pull all the air in the engines need. As far as the 1702, i can only guess most were running higher compression with the aftermarket heads and the slightly lower compression was a better match for the APC prop and 35% nitro.

I thought the stock bee class was fun, kind of neat to see what a nice old Bee would of turned back in the day! I picked one of my nicer Bees (ball joint was tight, reed looked good, glowhead looked new) and threw it in the mail box...its good to be lucky!

Oldenginerod Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:11 am

Mark Boesen wrote:
I thought the stock bee class was fun, kind of neat to see what a nice old Bee would of turned back in the day! I picked one of my nicer Bees (ball joint was tight, reed looked good, glowhead looked new) and threw it in the mail box...its good to be lucky!

Mark.
I also just opened my box of Babe Bees and grabbed a neat looking one which felt like it had reasonable compression, and the head glowed. Didn't dismantle it to check anything else. Just confirmed it was a single port. Don't know if I'd ever run it before- it was just an ebay perchase a couple of years ago. I did actually test run it before sending it. Sounded ok once it had cleared out the gunk so i figured it would do. Amazing how close they all were in the stock race.

Rod.

TDbandit Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:45 am

Oldenginerod wrote:
Mark Boesen wrote:
I thought the stock bee class was fun, kind of neat to see what a nice old Bee would of turned back in the day! I picked one of my nicer Bees (ball joint was tight, reed looked good, glowhead looked new) and threw it in the mail box...its good to be lucky!

Mark.
I also just opened my box of Babe Bees and grabbed a neat looking one which felt like it had reasonable compression, and the head glowed. Didn't dismantle it to check anything else. Just confirmed it was a single port. Don't know if I'd ever run it before- it was just an ebay perchase a couple of years ago. I did actually test run it before sending it. Sounded ok once it had cleared out the gunk so i figured it would do. Amazing how close they all were in the stock race.

Rod.

Yup they were very consistent, kinda reminds me of a stock car in Bracket Racing. I wanted to enter a bee in the stock class but all my bee's are duel ported. I do have an early thin wall single port cylinder/piston set which I still have to "un-stick" but the way I am, it just wouldn't be right to put it on a later case. Next year though i'll have one! Very Happy

(Bandit)

Congrats too everyone great job!! Clapping

Oldenginerod Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:02 am

As Kim clears his nostrels of nitro fumes prior to running the next class, I want to offer a huge vote of thanks to him for his efforts. It's easy to sit back and wait for results and then spend time back & forth analyzing them, but stop & think how much work all this is for Kim. To date he's run 3 classes, that's 25 engines so far. He's still got another 3 classes to run. Last year he had the help of Flygirl Suzie but this year there has been no mention of anyone else in the Skunkworks to lend a hand.
Hats off to you Kim. You have been extremely generous with your time & efforts and we all thank you. (And patiently wait for further results.)
Thanks

Rod.

Paulgibeault Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:50 pm

Hi Rod, Ah yes, your Australian geography certainly does get in the way of an easy visit! ( As if any visit to Australia from Canada is easy...) The Aussies I do know are ones associated with Speed, Team Race & a bit of combat. Mostly on the East Coast. Don't know any of the West Coast stunt fliers, but suspect I will get to see them in 2016. I sure would like to run the 'test prop' used for this years event. That's the last piece of the puzzle that could account for the higher than expected RPM's...
Cheers, Paul

Oldenginerod wrote:
Paulgibeault wrote:
Regarding social contanct, I'd love to meet you, but the tyranny of distance may be against us. I'm in rural Victoria a fair way from Melbourne, a long way from Sydney & a long long long way from Perth. I tend to stay put and don't travel too far from home.
A "cold one" at a barbie would be appreciated as well, although, unlike most Aussies, that would mean a Ginger beer or Root beer as I don't touch the real stuff.
Cheers.
Rod.
(p.s. Do you know Peter White in Perth? Well known stunt flyer, designer & builder. Great guitar builder as well. He lived 5 minutes down the road from us before shifting to Perth.)

GWILLIEFOX Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:48 pm

What engine did Mark use in Unlimited? I seem to have missed the info on it.

And Kim, super job. It is a pain in the rear end to set up one engine the first time, let alone all the ones you've done and will do. Glad there are still doers like you to help us enjoy out marvelous hobby!

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