Will COX survive one or more generations?

When Kodak was king in the photography  business/hobby they saw the future and developed digital photography.  Kodak is no longer a company as we knew it, if they even exist.  I'm sure they are reaping the benefits of their technology though.  Cox tried to develop new products but didn't embrace the jet age.  While we loved the scream of a glow engine most kids now never saw a plane with a propeller. Same thing going on with the Hot Rod industry. I gave up when gas became $1.50 a gallon Now its almost impossible to hot rod a newer car unless you have deep pockets.  
As a kid I dreamt of owning and flying my own plane. I used to look in the classified adds for single engine planes. After reality set in modeling was the closest thing to the real thing.  What do kids dream of now?  X-boxes and Playstations.  Parents see it as a way to babysit their kids as they both usually work.   Someone should design a game that uses control line planes and Cox engines. You would pick the plane type and engine. Maybe have a section where you could hop up the engines by changing cylinders, heads, etc..  I would buy it!
 Cox knew you had to get kids involved to sustain the hobby. They even had an aerodrome at Disneyland to introduce kids to flying.  Those kids are now our generation of adults.  Unless there is a shift in commercialism the things we love will fade away.  
I wonder what this generation of kids think when they get to become our age? I wish I kept my Nintendo? Will they collect cell phones and laptops?

I'm 58 years of age. My first exposure to Cox models was by my now deceased Uncle Ruben. He flew CL and gave an older brother a Li'l Stinker. I still remember it and I wasn't 5 years of age, yet. Looking at some of the other forums I see a smoldering of nostalgia from the younger folks wanting to 'try gas engines'. I think Cox will last as long as I do, anyway.

Well, so far they have survived the test of time. Next year will mark the 60th anniversary of the Babe Bee. For more than 30 years they've been up against electric planes, video games and computers. Somehow, even with Estes, they made it to 2015 and soon to be 2016. Now, thanks to Matt and Bernie who are even going as far as having new parts like tanks, cranks and other accessories made, brand new engines can still be had. Who knows where Cox engines would be if Estes didn't come in to buy up Cox, or if Estes would've just dumped the engines in the beginning.

Unless a billionaire comes into the picture, we probably won't see any new .010s, .020s... I think the hardest part to make is going to be cylinders and pistons. And because of the mass amount of used engines still floating around, it sadly may not be worth the money to have new Bees made again. New Tee Dees is another story though. Cox engines will always be around, there were so many made that they should still be around hundreds of years from now.

What we need to do is get the kids interested in the stuff. Spend some time with your kids or grandkids playing with these engines and planes. Even if they don't get too attached, they'll remember Cox when they're older and they'll have that place in their heart for it.


I just hope these drone regulations and all these cities creating ordinances against unmanned aircraft don't threaten the hobby.

A billionaire didn't become a billionaire without proper business sense. The cost investment required to build them today just wouldn't be practical. That being said, the truth is that glow is essentially dead. Electrics are dominating the hobby in every facet. They're less noisy, cheaper to produce, more powerful than their glow variants and all you do is flip a switch. If one was to compare the cost investments required for both for equal flights, I can see glow taking a back seat to electric. I don't like electric, I probably will never switch to electric, I just see the benefits. Noise is the major determining factor. As active as I am in this hobby, I don't see youths using Cox engines. I don't see them being promoted either. Anytime a trainer is used at our club, it's a large .15-.35 size plane. They start easier, they also present better and they're essentially easier to fly. I personally feel aside from a very few models offered, Cox ready to fly planes were probably responsible for running many out of the hobby. They didn't start easy due to most not knowing how or they smashed them on the first outing rendering them useless. Cox had their limelight and I enjoyed every bit of it. I just feel that the hobby is heading in new directions and glow isn't it.

Hey guys Lighten up on the old age thing.
   I have been "playing" with Cox Engines since the 1950's when they first came out. That's about 60 years with a break for the Military, and early marriage and children. My dad and I had many weekends together during the early days of Cox Engines and we had our share of Cox planes, one was the TD-4, Water Wizards and Prop Rods. And I am still here "playing" with the Prop Rod, Shrike and cleaning Cox Engines left and right. And still having fun. And now finishing building the Cox Kyosho GTP Stocker gas car.

happydad              

I think most young males still want their chance at owning, operating small IC engines.
The Cox engine is their doorway to that opportunity without breaking the piggy bank.
Those that find the product will strive to obtain it. Perhaps a school program that allows
kids to use them in wood shop class such as build and race tether car designs.

coxaddict wrote:When Kodak was king in the photography  business/hobby they saw the future and developed digital photography.  Kodak is no longer a company as we knew it, if they even exist.  I'm sure they are reaping the benefits of their technology though.  Cox tried to develop new products but didn't embrace the jet age.  While we loved the scream of a glow engine most kids now never saw a plane with a propeller. Same thing going on with the Hot Rod industry. I gave up when gas became $1.50 a gallon Now its almost impossible to hot rod a newer car unless you have deep pockets.  
As a kid I dreamt of owning and flying my own plane. I used to look in the classified adds for single engine planes. After reality set in modeling was the closest thing to the real thing.  What do kids dream of now?  X-boxes and Playstations.  Parents see it as a way to babysit their kids as they both usually work.   Someone should design a game that uses control line planes and Cox engines. You would pick the plane type and engine. Maybe have a section where you could hop up the engines by changing cylinders, heads, etc..  I would buy it!
 Cox knew you had to get kids involved to sustain the hobby. They even had an aerodrome at Disneyland to introduce kids to flying.  Those kids are now our generation of adults.  Unless there is a shift in commercialism the things we love will fade away.  
I wonder what this generation of kids think when they get to become our age? I wish I kept my Nintendo? Will they collect cell phones and laptops?

Hey Coxaddict: What model of Nintendo do you want?     I have the original Nintendo, the Nintendo Gamecube, Atari 400, 800, 5200, and the Atri game machine, (can't remember the number). And they are all taking up space in my garage. I used to repair them all in the day. Still have many spare parts, mostly for the Atari stuff.

edited to correct spelling. it's late here.

happydad                

balogh wrote:I am not much of a sociologist  but I believe COX related modeling survived because of the nostalgia of a few generations who were fortunate enough to bump into COX planes or cars etc when young. It is us in our 40s and 50s and 60s and 70s. While these engines still abound and will be for long sustained by enthusiastic tradesmen like Bernie of COX Int'l,
.......

My apologies to Matt (who helped me some years ago get my first TD50 RC from ebay) for not having mentioned him too ...

Matt I hope you took no offense

Andràs

Happydad,
Ironically I still have my son's Nintendo game console and games.  I also have Mattel's Intellivision and games. I might even have a Pong machine in a box somewhere.  They were fun back in the day. My son just made 37 years old this month. If I keep his games another 25 years they may be worth something.  I'll be 86 then.   I feel if its not in the way just hang on to it. (Maybe I'm a hoarder)
We used to race profile solid wing 1/2a planes with the neighborhood kids and my wife's younger brothers, 3 in the circle.  It was more fun when there were a lot of kids involved. I also had a trainer that had a fuselage made of a grape crate that would not break.  I taught men women and children to fly with that thing. Lost it in a move.  I wonder what kind of wood was used in those crates as they were light and strong.  

Thanks for the offer.
coxaddict

Talking about billionaires Carl Newell was a wealthy individual that loved fishing. His company made plastics for the medical industry. He decided to market his own line of fishing reels. The reels were excellent for what it was designed for. I don't think he made much money on those reels as when he passed the family sold that portion of the business. I don't think it ever restarted. Those reels now command high prices on the internet and elsewhere.
If we were lucky enough that a wealthy person with the same passion about Cox engines as we in this forum decided to manufacture Cox products without regard to the bottom line, we all would benefit. Anyone out there listening?

Yes I think so with the humbling people on this and other forums ? I don't see why not there is still ALOT of enthusiastic and curious young people out there and I believe the IC engine is not going to die out to electrics . In the world of lawn care alone there is very little electric equipment that will hold there own to a combustion engine , and the aroma of a two cycle and or (nitro)  burner is something that just want go away that easily !!! getback

My 6 year old grand son pesters his mom all the time to come vist us 200 miles away just so he can help PaPa with all his toys.... hot rods, RC cars, RC helicopters, RC and C/L planes

His sisters think some of what I do is cool and fun to help and watch but like the girls in my neighbor youth are not all THAT into it. Both seem to be typical products of our current culture but strangely behave just as all little girls similar to my memory of the 60~70s and my sisters and their friends.... Barbie doll has more allure than a model car or airplane

Back to Jackson (the 6 YO) and my 34 YO son... They are both enthusiastic on my hobbies and even though both are master PS4 or Nintendo kings ( in their minds) ,,,,all I have to do to get them off the couch and away from the button and joy stick.... fire up a Tee Dee, Norvel or any other screaming Glow engine....

I fire one up and we all stand around like Hank Hill with a beer and watch as it burns through a oz of fuel. Many times we can tell the neighbor kids are at the fence trying to see where all the cool noise is coming from

I contend that little boys can be enticed to stop killing pedestrians and get outside and do DANGEROUS things, as it should be

Side thought:
I was watching a guy fly a big RC scale P51 a while back at a, not so local to me, AMA club (I used to be the Secretary of)

He spent quite a bit of coin to add a sound module, extra battery, and amplified speakers to make the electric plane sound like a Merlin engine. If you had just arrived, and did not know it was an electric plane, you would swear he had a micro Merlin in it...very realistic and quite loud

This club has a muffler required rule with no reason as they are far away from any residences...Just a bunch of PC jerks

Final thought... many of theses PC jerks have no clue about sound and DB or annoying frequencies.... some fly a thing called a Fun Jet pusher delta wing with a ultra High RPM electric motor that can fly up to over 200 MPH... a low pass sounds, to my ear, about 4 times louder than any Cox TeeDee on 40% N steroids

I quite the club because they would not consider letting me fly Cox powered without a muffler

uh hum who is the 13 year old boy who hops on his old bsa bike with his planes in a basket and rides to the club and flys his cl planes? whilst other boys are playing with these silly self flying drones that are stabilized by gyros? and who is the one who made flying rags out of seized ok cubs and wren macs ? and then got told by you guys that it is a really bad idea to do so?
in my mind cox engines will live forever
they are like vw camper vans they just keep on going and there are some people who collect them , and some who have some with 20,055 original miles on them ,and some that have never come out the box, and some that have been round the odometer 5 times

just like all classic cars planes trains buses boats toys people battles veterans etc etc they all follow buy this rule
legends live forever !

HAVE I answered all of the questions? !

and in some 300 years or so some one will find my flying rags and go ha! i have a photo of my great great great granddad with one of these!

If my old skateboard can survive this long, so can Cox Engines.

   I found my 1 and only skateboard while cleaning the garage last week. It is more than 58 years old, circa 1957. The trucks and wheels are still original straight from the skating rink. One old skate cut in half with the fiber wheels used in the rink at that time.


Original skateboard circa 1957, handmade. Redwood inlay.

I haven't been able to ride it since 1986 when I showed off for my kids and fell flat on my back.

happydad    

This is a great thread! I'm 55 years old.. I'm set in my ways.. even if I swore I'd never be that way. I've always loved engines. Engines that burn fuel. Miniature marvels.. The smaller the better!

It's all about awareness..

CEF promotional flyers

Thanks, Andras, this has been a great thread with input from the youngest to the oldest. Imagine 305 years from now, seeing Ensign Wesley Crusher and Chief Eng. Geordi La Forge flying 1/2A combat on the holodeck of the Enterprise NCC-1701 D. Heck, Tom Paris built a '69 Camaro on the Voyager's Holodeck. I enjoyed Greg's input with attitude. We sure are glad to have you around, buddy. You give us hope for the future.

balogh wrote:...I hope not to have provided a too dark entry with these thoughts here...I know it is just a hobby and one should not forget about many other more important and serious things in life......

But always remember that leisure fun time is just as important for the wellbeing of a human soul as the "important duties" that allow us to earn that fun time.
Fun lovin' old Rusty

Thanks Rusty and all for your views shared with us on this.

Unless you are a bit tired of reading enthusiastic accounts on how people bumped into COX, here is a link with tons of COX stories of our generations....all stories are a bit different but are common in one thing: COX simply mesmerized most people who encountered them...

http://www.coxmodels.com/history/flashback.html

RknRusty wrote:I enjoyed Greg's input with attitude. We sure are glad to have you around, buddy. You give us hope for the future.

I will stay stickin' around' !

I like thought provoking threads like this as they make me compare my youth with today's youth and compare and contrast "hobbies".

It is easy to lose the original question in the mire of thoughts but it is a Cox specific question.

Greg really holds the answer to this as the average age of members on this forum is significantly higher than 13.

A lot of what we do having returned to it or never left is nostalgia. Something we drifted into because we had pals who did it, there were plentiful clubs, no outrageous health and safety or legalisation imposing limits.

Cox engines as a manufacturer did not survive. It was the epitome of mass production and unable to scale down, specialise or compete with other manufacturers.

Cox engines provided an introduction to beginners. Small easily started ready to fly models. Add fuel and go - no balsa bashing! Dare I say, a bit like popping down the shop and buying a drone but messier and there are more restrictions on a control line IC engined plane than a prebuilt electric foamy or drone.

I can take a drone to the park at the end of the road and fly it. We are not allowed to fly with IC engines! So how can any youngster see the magic of an IC engine in flight - let alone a Cox!

We were originally allowed to fly control line in Richmond Park but it was banned because of noise and competition wasn't allowed. Flying combat was classed as competition!

The only way a youngsters are likely to see a Cox engine near me is if they are dragged along by their parents to complain about the noise I am making.

To side track for a moment - we have also seen the demise of Fox engines. These also have a significant following on this forum. They were always seen as an engine to have for larger control line flying. Why did this fall off?

When I first started aero modelling it was almost a level playing field. Not a cheap hobby but not outrageously expensive and within the reach of most.

As time went on - competition moved beyond the reach of most and I look now at free flighters. Carbon fibre this and that, weather stations (I think that is what they are!) and models that cost thousands.

The same happened with powered free flight and combat. Mass produced engines were not competitive with the specialised.

I watch the Windy videos and he flew with Rojetts.

Recently CS stopped producing engines - hardly a large scale manufacturer but nevertheless significant to some parties.

Small engines are still being produced.

www.redfinengines.com

These were originally manufactured by CS Engines but now production has moved to Eastern Europe.

There is still a market for small engines but it is not thousands.

Sharma engines (India) now do not distribute worldwide - they make nice mid range diesels.

The question should be "How can aero modelling survive through future generations?"

When I was 13 (many years ago!) I had the support of a local club (5 minutes walk away), encouragement and training. That club is no more and, due to recent legislation, unlikely to ever be recreated. It is not possible for "children" (excuse me Greg - you are now a teenager but under 18) to participate in clubs unless under parental guidance of other club members are specially licensed.

I joined the Club at 7 years old. My dad knew all the members - he worked with them. We are in different times.