Help Deciding on Kit

Full fuse sterling ringmaster

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1730763

Kinda pricey......

For that price I would definitely rather scratch build it. I would enjoy the process more as well.

Rolla

Looks like I will be placing the order for the Giant King Pin tonight or tomorrow. I think finish will be translucent purple with a black body.

Rolla

Just got the order made. Contemplating on doing my first build log. Not sure if I will or not.

Rolla

Godsey3.0 wrote:Just got the order made. Contemplating on doing my first build log. Not sure if I will or not.

Rolla

Why wouldn't you? I throw mine on all the time. I wouldn't consider myself an awesome builder by any stretch. The good thing is it helps others build theirs, plus when you get into a snag then you have a bunch of folks available to help you out.

Ron

Godsey3.0 wrote:Just got the order made. Contemplating on doing my first build log. Not sure if I will or not.

Rolla

dude: if an ole man like me can show how to build things the wrong way sometimes, why can't everyone.
happydad

cribbs74 wrote:

Godsey3.0 wrote:Just got the order made. Contemplating on doing my first build log. Not sure if I will or not.

Rolla

Why wouldn't you? I throw mine on all the time. I wouldn't consider myself an awesome builder by any stretch. The good thing is it helps others build theirs, plus when you get into a snag then you have a bunch of folks available to help you out.

Ron

+1.

Godsey3.0 wrote:Just got the order made. Contemplating on doing my first build log. Not sure if I will or not.

Rolla

Would like to see that build,,go for it.

Just thought that I would let everyone know that I will be doing a review of this kit. Whenever it arrives. There does not seem to be much about about this plane online.

Rolla

Godsey3.0 wrote:Just thought that I would let everyone know that I will be doing a review of this kit. Whenever it arrives. There does not seem to be much about about this plane online.

Rolla

Sounds like a plan Rolla, looking forward to it.

Godsey3.0 wrote:The field is close to the center of 120 acres of woods. Not much sound escapes. There is one guy who leaves close by and he has never mentioned it. The field is not smooth enough to roll off of but it serves our purpose.

Rolla

Close to heaven would be if you asked the guy if the noise bothers him and he says, "Huh?"

George

Well, the kit arrived. As did the engines I ordered. One problem with the engines though, they are not what was pictured. I can use the one engine without any throuble. It is around the 40th anniversary era. The other is older. It lacks the support beams on the crank case. I am not sure whether to try and get the correct engines or just keep these and no doubt destroy the one from a wreck. I may trade the one off for one I can use without fear.

Now back to the kit. The wood is excellent. I love the smell of the box. Kinda weird statement. But it is nice. Everything is cut well.

Engine Pictures that were supplied:






One of the engines I received:

Here is something I think is weird. The box says on it "Engine 29. TO .45". The website says ".19 TO .40". The plans say ".35 TO .45"

Rolla, there is no fear in using the older engine. The older Fox didn't come with the casting gusset. It's indeed an oldie. However, it may just surprise you as some of them really had some good fits and ran exceptionally smooth. I'm assuming there are no casting obstructions in the exhaust cutout in the older case. It's just one large rectangular cutout? Those Fox's have a pretty loud bark to them. In no way do the older Fox's like to be muffled either. You won't break those engines even in a crash unless it's concrete. I shouldn't say that because I did break a 40th on grass. I broke the muffler lugs and a portion of the exhaust stack. One solution to prevent the muffler ears on the 40th from breaking is to JB weld 1/8" tubing directly to the back of the muffler lug and cutoff flush with the exhaust stack.

Prior to running, certain things should be checked with a Fox. For one, the connecting rod needs to be freely moving back and forth on the wrist pin . This requires removing the backplate which can damage the gasket. These are readily available or it can be substituted for Permatex Anaerobic gasket maker. Once the backplate is off, you can snake a 4-40 allen wrench behind the rod and use it as a lever to check to see if the rod is free floating. If not, penetrating oil and a heat gun continuously moving the rod back and forth until it becomes easy. Replace the backplate and your good to go. For a reliable run I've said this before, don't use a Fox plug. I see a Fox plug in the one engine . Those plugs are far too problematic as they leak, have a high failure rate, and they're just not a hot enough plug. A Thunderbolt r/c long is probably the best plug you could use. Ken

Sweet! That is good news indeed. Both of these will definitely be run a ton.

Rolla

Rolla, I provided some pics of a new build to me or I should say rebuild. The Fox needle valve is just horrific. It works but it takes some finesse and some tweaking. Just for the record, there are much better units available but I still use them as well. The main problem with them is the air leaks. If you look at the pic, you can see the piece of pinktubing under the knurled ratchet wheel. I clip the thumb wheel off of the top as well and bend the needle over in a J. You can see this in my example. Just for the record, I'm telling you this and I certainly wished someone told me this as I think I purchased a bazillion Fox needle valves. A broken needle valve can end a flying session. As long as it doesn't move or rotate, I've flown the engine with the broken piece in there. They break constantly and this prevents that from happening at least to some degree it does. You can see how the needle is below the fuse. Short needle valves are better anyhow as you really don't want a springy needle like other manufacturers provide acting like a pendulum. Another thing I do is to use fine wire around the tubing where it goes on the fuel nipple as this really likes to detach itself usually at the worst time. Achieving the proper tubing length will take some experimentation on the needle itself. There has been so many different changes in spraybar design and a few changes in needle styles. The older style needle known as the flat needle doesn't come to a point like conventional needles. The other style is the tapered needle. To say for instance you just need to set the needle out X amount of turns isn't going to happen with a Fox. This will take some running and then size the tubing. I also wanted to state another critical performance issue with the Fox. When you look down the venturi on a Fox spraybar, there are 2 holes in it. You should barely see both holes. Typically, one hole is higher than the other due to the hole not coming through straight. I would just rotate your needle so you just barely see the holes. Ken

This is what the seller replied with

"Hi Jacob,
I just called my dad, he said since he knew you were going to use them and wanted to help you out. He went through the engines and picked the best two he had. The one engine is amost new, he said has less the 30 flights on it, that is the bright silver one. The other one is the one he competed with at 1964 Nats, that engine was hand fitted by Duke Fox and is a pussycat to run.
My dad wanted to help you out, he was just trying to be nice. If you don't want them please send them back. and I will return thr money to you. These are far better than what you said were looking for.

Lewis"

I originally sent an email stating how they were different than what was pictured. I was worried someone was trying to pull one over on me. I was greatly mistaken. Looks like I got two great engines!

Rolla

That is good news. Unfortunately, the 40th is going to take some break in. I mentioned to you prior that the 40th anniversary Fox has some of the tightest fits. These can take a while to break in. I expedite this by doing some lapping and other things. having just 30 flights on the engine certainly tells me the engine is quite new and can overheat and sag. It isn't uncommon to run a gallon of fuel through a Fox.35 prior to putting it on a plane. Although I've done it sooner, this is just how they are. I love them but i think of them really as a kit. I have to do certain things to them to get them working to my liking. You need to look at it like this, you can still get parts support for these engines. Ken

Does the crankcase offered now fit the older engines? I was flipping the 1964 engine over. It has very good compression and the crank turns easily. The newer one has a softer pop and the crank feels "thicker". I almost have the King Pin finished. I took some pictures. It is rather simple so not many things to document. The kit was excellent. Very good wood. Instructions were nice. They just need to get some of their specifications sorted out. Like the Wingspan and engine size. I may try a 40 FP on it one day.

Rolla

Rolla, understand something about Fox's in general. You either love them or hate them. I say this mainly based on the fact that some work quite well and some not so well. To say that Fox parts are interchangeable would probably not be an accurate statement. These engines by no means are machined like a modern OS engine is. The case designs have undergone some changes. The cranks may or may not interchange based on these changes. I recently put my 40th internals in a 60th case and when the prop was tightened, the engine wouldn't turn over. I had to machine the front of the case down. All works well now. For the most part, the parts that you will indeed require over time will interchange from new to old and vice versa. These engines take a lot of abuse. Just think of the lawn darting a part of the break in process. Even after grueling over lean runs and just flat out abuse, the only way I ever destroyed one was when the cylinder struck the ground on a inverted pass over asphalt. I broke the cylinder right off the case. Many times due to tank issues or just bad vibrations I would get a seriously overlean run that would make the engine slow down and literally seize and stop. Let it cool and go back to flying. They're a great engine for sport flying. The best things to keep on hand would be a gasket rebuild kit which has head gasket, backplate gasket and all the screws. The other thing would be spare needles. Ken

Parts for a 1950 Fox .35 will interchange with a 2012 model as will all years between. The crankshaft webbing appeared on either the 1955 or 1957 model, can't remember which. The Fox .19 and .29 that I have are pre webbing. My Fox .35 is the 40th. anniversary model but has a stuffer backplate and a hemi head as sold by Brodak.
For engines made before the muffler ears were added, you can buy strap-on mufflers. Unless you have heavy noise restrictions, you may find that a tongue muffler is lighter.
I would believe that both engines are well broken in. The way to check this is to see if it will run a whole tank of fuel without sagging.
Fox .35's are unique in that they are a maximum sized engine for that case. Because of that, cooling is marginal so you should run between 25% and 29% lube. Since they are iron pistons in steel liners, and they have been run a bit, I would suggest the lube be all castor. Iron/steel engines develop a castor varnish in the piston's porous iron that helps seal compression as the engine wears. If you run even partial synthetic, it will remove this seal as it "cleans" your engine. If this happens and you lose compression, switching to an all castor fuel will rebuild the seal over time.
Be very careful of very lean runs on an iron/steel engine...you can ruin them. Traditionally Fox .35's are run rich so that when the plane is in level flight it runs in a four cycle mode but when you go vertical, it switches to a lean run for more power. This is called a "stunt run" and is why many use Fox .35's for stunt.

And that concludes Fox .35's 101...any questions?

George