EX Model Engines

As repeatedly indicated, we have been quite active in soliciting quotes for TD engine parts. The results have not been particularly encouraging. The main issues being cylinders and pistons. Of the many RFQ, all have been returned as "No Quote". The low (1,000/pcs) production runs are likely the demise of the project.

However, our quest continues....

MikeM wrote:since being here i have found a wealth of info that i never new existed along with a great group of people to associate with.
i'd like to say thx to Matt for taking the time to scour the warehouse and find what i was looking for in quantity, and he even gave me a great deal to boot.

now that i know where to go to get most parts i will need for competition, i'll certainly direct more of the people i know in other ares of the hobby.
hope you bring them TeeDee's back............

Kudos to you Matt


-mike

Thanks for the kind words Mike!

Yes, TD engine parts are very much in the exploratory phase at this point.

'Best, Matt

Pre coffee thought alert!!!!!!!!!

Would it help ease things along by creating a
'Coalition of the willing'.
I dunno perhaps see how many people out here
Are prepared to give you 100 bucks to kick start
The process, with the understanding that they
Go to the front of the queue when deliveries
Arrive?
Another thing, have you contacted any of the
Regular model engine manufacturers?
One assumes they've already got the tooling.
The Eastern Europeans with their tiny engine
Production lines and cheap costs would seem ideal
Or perhaps a small producer like YS?
"Hello Yamada San would you like a 1000 unit order"?
He's a great guy I'm sure he'd do it.

There is no point is taking pre-orders before a decision has been made to manufacture the engines and, yes, we have approached several engine manufacturers and they either took a pass on some of the parts required and/or pricing was way too high.

And, no, no one seems to have the tooling to hone Cox spec cylinders and pistons, let alone swage the conrod/piston assemblies.

I contacted the outfit that made blanks for Cox and their runs were 200,000 per part with small runs being 25,000 per part. I might be able to persuade them to do a 5,000 run but can't afford this and, even if I could, the honing and assembly of cylinders and pistons is the bigger and more expensive issue.

I was thinking more along the lines of a statement of intent/retainer Bernie rather than a pre order.
I'm sure there's a lot of 'boystalk' on here which doesn't translate to sales but with prices of NIB's
going ever upwards I thought maybe you might find a few hundred bods willing to take a
no obligation punt.
Certainly I would.


It was pre coffee as well

Unfortunately, statemnts of intent don't work. We got plenty of those on an array of items that we subsequently manufactured and which are sitting on with scarce sales.

We have had many dozens of "expressions of interest" for the TD engine but it remains to be seen how many buyers will actually plunk down $80 or $90 for the thing, that is without wrenches or packaging.

John,

It is a tough one because expressing interest is great, but does not always guarantee a sale. On the other hand, pre-orders (which I am not a fan of) or a commitment from a customer would be difficult since nailing down a price or time-frame when a finished engine would be delivered is close to impossible, if any engines were produced at all.

Matt

I did farm this out recently to Fox Engines as well as they do have the machining capabilities but I doubt they will be able to meet price targets for such a low run.

What about only produce the crank, crankcase and so, and use the existing cylinders and pistons?
just a thought of a cox newbie on the forum

That IS already a thought but it is the pistons that are the problem. By selling pistons separately for years, we have an imbalance of around 3,000 vs. cylinders.

Since we derive parts from disassembling Surestart engines, we will have less of those for sale. Surestarts sell really well, they convert well into our pricier engines and we stand to make way more money on our standard engines.

Also, the needle valve body is expensive (like $4), the crank probably $7 (our cost) and the crankcase was quoted at $14 (our cost) so forgetaboutit for the crankcase on that quote.

But then you will run out of pistons for all engines in the future, so somewere in the future it has to be done to make new ones.

I hope there will be sometime in the future an solution for that.

(and that in a world, where the Chinese can copy everything, but not a Cox piston and cylinder (for a fair price) )

The future may be that we are out of business with Cox lol.

If we run out of Surestart engines and have to make some, price will go from current $26 to at least $40 and only that low because we have access to the moulds for the plastic parts and the metal parts are fairly basic.

China can copy anything but not a run of 5,000 pistons at reasonable pricing. Now a run of 50,000 or more would surely entice them to make the appropriate tooling for this.

So all forum people have to pre order 1000 pistons so you can let them produce 50.000 LOL

Not that I want to queer the deal on NIB TD .049s
BUT time for real-ville here

At age 58 I have now acquired six TDs: 3 .049 and 3 .051 with a Paul Gibeault version in the mail right now.

If Bernie does sell a NIB .049 TD I am in for only two. At my age that gives me plenty to run well into the time they get willed to my son or grandson

Just seems to me that Bernie has a good handle on the "potential market" wisdom of experience these last few years hocking cox gear, and I trust he will make the best BUSINESS decision for his company and family

That said, I really would love to buy 2 NIB TDs from Cox International hopefully one a special edition with #55 on it

off coarse form the business point of view it have to be safe, and this is the biggest problem.
in the modern electric world the market for the i.c. engines is not growing, and more towards the bigger and gas engines.
the market is only the cox nuts, and that are not enough...

the only way is to get people back to wonderful world of small engines. "give your plane a soul, give it a Cox engine"

Maybe Bernie needs to buy a precision machine shop, get into medical prosthesis and measuring instruments so he can afford to produce cox parts for us!

Phil

Well,

This discussion has made me realize that I am going to ask my wife for $150 worh of .049 cylinders for my birthday.

one of the biggest demands for the TeeDee's is in Free Flight competition and the flyers are usually willing to spend good money for a quality .020, .049 or .051...self included
and just how many FF'ers are we talking about?................maybe 3 dozen at best.

i have been in FF all my life and my venture into RC a couple years ago showed me exactly why the real part of the hobby went to pot, along with all the great American vendors (i mean to include you too Bernie)..........
the Chineese ARF's, electrics and even gas has virtually killed the kit market and building skills have diminished to the point that no one is involved as they were 20-30 years ago with building their own models which was enticing to juniors whom we really need to continue the future of CL and FF. that said, the need for Cox engines got the dump as well, and that's where the line is drawn to bringing back the great line of TeeDee's.
can't expect anyone in this economy to shell out dough to build an engine that may not sell even though people say they want it.
i would be willing to commit to the challenge, but i'm sure it's just not enough.
would be cool to see the PT Trainer come back to life too...........

yep, theres still plenty of new like new Tee Dees on eBay at prices comparable or less to what a 'new' version would cost.

http://www.ebay.com/csc/RC-Engines-Parts-Accs-/116070/i.html?_dcat=34056&Part=Engines&_from=R40&_nkw=cox+tee+dee&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc

but, I don't think thats true for the pt-19, i'd love to see somebody sell a pt-19 'kit' no engine, the end user would need to trim off the plastic trees and do prep work to keep costs down, could be molded in a ton of colors.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Control-Line-Freeflight-/34054/i.html?_sadis=200&_ipg=50&LH_SALE_CURRENCY=0&_from=R40&_samihi=&_samilow=&_fpos=&_udhi=&_oexkw=&_udlo=&_adv=1&_sop=12&_dmd=1&LH_Complete=1&_okw=&_fsct=&_nkw=cox+pt-19