Getting Ready for the September 20th "International Cox PT-19 Fly It If You Got It Day"!

Wanted to bump this back to the top for a bit...AND...Officially Nominate
Batjac as the Official, Official Coordinator of the
"1st International Cox PT-19 Fly-It-If-You-Got-It Day"
...as witnessed by the official document below !!

I hereby petition members to petition Mark to petition Jacob for our own "sticky" (that term STILL sounds a bit weird to me!), since it looks like we may have some participation in this little adventure!



Here's hoping that all this power does not go to Mark's head !

Kim wrote:

happydad wrote:Kim: do you have the part number of the key fob camera you purchased from ebay? I have looked at several, but none seemed to to have the right focus distance or right pixels per inch or whatever.
  thanks for any help you can give.
    p.s. what video editing program do you use.     happydad

   

Hey H.D.,
The last two cameras I bought were from an Ebay seller at: http://www.ebay.com/usr/beetleonline

They took a while to get here but did finally arrive, and I've been using one, and keeping the other as a spare.  

After buying two or three editing programs from Best Buy, I ended up using the Windows Movie Maker Program that was already on my computer!  I don't use any fancy special effects in my videos, just titles and fades, and Movie Maker does that just fine.  

I take the Micro S.D. card out of the camera, put it in an adapter, and then my computer, then just drag the file to folder I've already labeled.  Once it's there, I can import it to Movie Maker, and start chopping on it.  

It took a bit of experimenting to get used to the program, and I'm still occasionally finding new features.  If you're in a position where it's easier to mount the camera upside down, you can flip the video before you edit it...stuff like that.

Also, I think Ian bought a camera a while back, not sure where he got it...maybe he'll check in.

Hope this helps.

I got mine from here

http://www.minidvcameras.co.uk/viewcategory.php?groupid=0

I got the key fob model - there are three different lens versions available.

I will second that KIM , I am trying to work up a build for that day, Got the stuff just need to get to cutting !!!, gluing !! What the heck is the w/s on those old bird anyway 18" ?? Eric

getback wrote:I will second that KIM , I am trying to work up a build for that day, Got the stuff just need to get to cutting !!!, gluing !! What the heck is the w/s on those old bird anyway 18" ??  Eric

Hey Eric!

The total wingspan is right at 23":


With a chord at the root of about 5 1/4"



Both leading and trailing edges taper (the trailing edge a bit more-so) to about 3 3/8ths just before the wingtip.



The fuse is about 15 1/2", with the stabilator spanning 8 1/2"



If you are also gonna replicate the PT's dihedral, it's about 3/4"each side with the center flat on the table.



Hope this helped!!!

Well, I spent the weekend trying to rig up a banner tow.... and failed The good news is the bird survived (actually both the 19 and the mourning dove I hit), but all my attempts at towing yielded an entirely unstable aircraft.

Not having a fishing shop near by, I made a treble hook from a hanger. It looked promising. I made it with a bit of weight in hopes that it would hang far enough below the plane to make pick up easier. The pick up line was held about 15 inches off the ground by two other hangers (hey, this is a high budget outfit).

Just after the plane became airborne, the problems started. The hook, trailing a couple feet behind, began swinging with each rudder input. I had anticipated the aft cg shift due to the hook, but the swinging resulted in divergent phugoid oscillations that were difficult to overcome. The closest thing to level flight I could achieve was +/-4 feet, but I did manage to land it unscathed. My second attempt I moved the firewall to the 'novice' full down position, and that only made things worse. Third attempt had the firewall fully aft and decreased the elevator throw. This configuration showed the most promise as it yielded something close to level flight. But the slightest puff of wind would get the hook swinging, and due to the reduced throw, recovery was slow, way too exciting, and resulted in several power on touch and goes (bless the stoutness of the poor little trainer).

Okay, so the pick up is out. But could the plane take off with the banner? I attached the 2 foot bridle directly to the tail. The 19 had no trouble pulling the banner into the air, and stability was not an issue. It seemed the banner was acting like the tail of a kite: the plane was completely docile.

Unfortunately, the gentle part of the flight was short lived. Focusing on the plane as I flew, I initially missed that the banner was spinning wildly, windmilling. "Oh well," I thought, "I'll iron that out later." What I still hadn't noticed was as the banner spun, it was winding up the tow line and creeping forward toward the plane. By about the 15th lap, it was spinning hard against the tail and had become a swinging mass similar to the hook. A couple more power on touch and goes, another scuffed prop, and the old girl was safe on the ground.

So, back to the drawing board. Perhaps a rigid tail hook arrangement for the pick up, a new bridle, and a bunch more weight on the bottom edge of the banner.

My Plan (when and IF I get around to it) is to use sewing thread that will hopefully break upon landing.  The banner will be on a fairly long stretch of thread that "U-Turns" around and out in front of the trainer, allowing it to get up to speed to snap the banner into the air.

Rather than go with the full-size style tail attachment, I'm gonna try hooking it through the hole in the center of the wing.  I was able to pull banners and a pretty good size flag with my Kadet MKI using this location...so we'll see!

Figure I'll use a strip of white kitchen garbage bag for the banner, glued to a small dowel with a slug of lead on one end to help it stay upright.

This WILL (of course) all be performed in the secure expanses of the the Skunk Works testing facility !!!

RknRusty wrote:

roddie wrote:
A cool experiment, would be to modify the airfoil of that wing.. using a few balsa half-ribs and some "Saran-wrap" taped around the perimeter? The added weight would be marginal.. and would produce a more symmetrical airfoil. There's absolutely "nothing" in the way, on the bottom of that wing to try this.

Or Monokote. I've been thinking about doing this for a long time. You've inspired me to put it on my to-do list. I have to fix a crack in my wing anyway. I'm trying to decide whether to fix mine up with a hot reedie or a Medallion. I only have one Medallion and haven't used it since my Li'l Jumpin' Bean days.
Even my son is looking forward to this upcoming event.
Rusty

P.S. Wow, I'm obviously feeling better this morning. Maybe now I can re-join the forum. I've missed you guys for the past week.
Rusty

We're all glad you're feeling better Rusty!  

I thought I'd offer some information related to the above quoted discussion.. to say that I have taken a measurement of the under-camber of my PT-19's wing.. taken mid-span. I used a vernier-caliper and a piece of 1/4" maple trim to span the wing-chord at approx. 50% span. A crude measurement... but a "base-line" for installing 1/2-ribs.. and an experimental covering.



I took a measurement at the leading edge.. of .250" (the thickness of the maple) followed by this "midway-span" point.. which  yielded a maximum .500"..at approximately 1.125" behind the wing's l/e..  which equates to a .250" undercamber.  A decent "ballpark" for making the wing symmetrical.

I'm thinking x4 half-ribs (1/8" balsa)  per panel... tacked at the l/e-t/e with hot-glue.. and attaching experimental covering with the aid of this thin-film, double-sided tape..



... attached around the wing's perimeter for a reliable "tacking" of the covering.. without the concerns of melting the plastic wing. The covering can be shrunk by using a heat-gun and mitt. Peel it "all" off later (ribs and all..).. if desired... This is NDT (non-destructive testing)

YESSSSS!!!! Thank you Kim, was just setting down to start drawing , cutting ......and said to self ( I should ck. and see If Kim got me that measurement ) an man there it was all I need !! Eric

Kim wrote:OKAY....It's Officially UN-Official !!!

In case this becomes an annual global celebration, maybe we should open up a 48 hour window for getting our official flights in. That way it can be a weekend event, more flexible in case of inclimate weather and such. And maybe follow the lead of the Brotherhood of the Ring making Tuesday the deadline for flight submissions.
Just a thought.
Rusty

Sounds Good !  We could include Friday too...as I've always considered part of the weekend!  But that's a call for the participants!

Let's get the Master of Ceremonies...The Presumptuous Mark...in here for his opinion!

Calling Mark!!!!!!! all hail Mark Some bobys got to do it

flyjsh wrote:Well, I spent the weekend trying to rig up a banner tow.... and failed The good news is the bird survived (actually both the 19 and the mourning dove I hit), but all my attempts at towing yielded an entirely unstable aircraft.

Not having a fishing shop near by, I made a treble hook from a hanger.  It looked promising.  I made it with a bit of weight in hopes that it would hang far enough below the plane to make pick up easier.  The pick up line was held about 15 inches off the ground by two other hangers (hey, this is a high budget outfit).  

Just after the plane became airborne, the problems started.  The hook, trailing a couple feet behind, began swinging with each rudder input.  I had anticipated the aft cg shift due to the hook, but the swinging resulted in divergent phugoid oscillations that were difficult to overcome.  The closest thing to level flight I could achieve was +/-4 feet, but I did manage to land it unscathed.  My second attempt I moved the firewall to the 'novice' full down position, and that only made things worse.  Third attempt had the firewall fully aft and decreased the elevator throw.  This configuration showed the most promise as it yielded something close to level flight.  But the slightest puff of wind would get the hook swinging, and due to the reduced throw, recovery was slow, way too exciting, and resulted in several power on touch and goes (bless the stoutness of the poor little trainer).

Okay, so the pick up is out.  But could the plane take off with the banner?  I attached the 2 foot bridle directly to the tail.  The 19 had no trouble pulling the banner into the air, and stability was not an issue.  It seemed the banner was acting like the tail of a kite:  the plane was completely docile.  

Unfortunately, the gentle part of the flight was short lived.  Focusing on the plane as I flew, I initially missed that the banner was spinning wildly, windmilling.  "Oh well," I thought, "I'll iron that out later."  What I still hadn't noticed was as the banner spun, it was winding up the tow line and creeping forward toward the plane.  By about the 15th lap, it was spinning hard against the tail and had become a swinging mass similar to the hook.  A couple more power on touch and goes, another scuffed prop, and the old girl was safe on the ground.

So, back to the drawing board.  Perhaps a rigid tail hook arrangement for the pick up, a new bridle, and a bunch more weight on the bottom edge of the banner.

Hi John, I never tried a banner "pick-up"... but as far as "towing one off the ground" goes.. I had success using a mylar "Happy-Birthday" wall-border (about 5-6" wide) that came in a roll from the party supply store. I cut an 8 foot "ribbon" of it.. and taped a popsicle-stick to the right (leading) side, with small holes drilled near each end for the "two" tow-lines... which were only 2-3 feet long. The "bottom-line" was attached to my tailskid.. using a tiny alligator clip, and the "top-line" was attached to the top of the rudder with another alligator clip, along with some sort of thin material (tape or a thin plastic strip..) to protect the soft balsa rudder from the clip's "jaws" biting in. The top-line was the trimming line.. and could be positioned fore/aft on the rudder for the banner to "track" straight. I flew the banner at a birthday party.. and it worked perfectly.. being towed behind a little .049 reedy-powered biplane on 25-30 foot lines!

I think that two "equal-length" lines are necessary for the banner to fly; without "wind-milling".. unless the banner's "bridal" can be weighted on the bottom? That "might" work.. but I've never tried it.

When I set out to tow banners and flags with my MK I Kadet, I quickly found out that hooking the banner on-the-go COULD be done, but was a risky affair because you're having to watch both the hook AND what's going on with the plane.







The release ( a Robart Bomb Release) was located close to the CG of the plane.  A large, coarse-thread nut was cranked onto the bottom of the post, and I shortened the top line of the bridal after watching the heavy flag flying "nose-up" behind the plane on the first flight.  With the shorter top line, the flag flew a lot closer to level.

Also, I knew I'd eventually want to haul a BIG flag and was afraid that the Kadet might be caught behind the power curve when the line slack took up.

So, I lengthened the tow line, ran it up stream of the plane, with the banner stretched out and it's kingpost TOWARD the plane.  The Kadet was always up and climbing good by the time the line took up and 'peeled' the banner off the ground.

Since veterans and folks in general are a little testy about Old Glory laying on the ground, at our airport 4th of July Show, I was able to enlist the assistance of a young lady, getting her to hold the flag high, and let Mud Dabber snap it from her hands.

She then ran and caught it at release as the plane flew down the ramp.

And no...I didn't get a photo of her...and I DON'T have a good excuse !

I got my PT off the hook today. Took it all apart for a proper cleaning. The nose is cracked up where the engine has tried to rapidly exit a few times, so I have to figure out what to secure it with. I have some fiber packing tape that might do the trick. Maybe a shot of Lustrekote to keep fuel from getting under it. Or Rustoleum, that might be a good permanent fix. I found a nice brand new red crankcase from one of Fit90's anodizing experiments, and a new crankshaft. I guess if I use a #1 or #4 cylinder I better put the KB backplate on it. This is one of the mounts that works with a choke tube, so I'll put the snorkel on too. The tank still snaps on tight but I might go with a larger capacity if I can get a wedgie in there.

Rusty

RknRusty wrote: The tank still snaps on tight but I might go with a larger capacity if I can get a wedgie in there.

Rusty

That sounds painful

RknRusty wrote:I got my PT off the hook today. Took it all apart for a proper cleaning. The nose is cracked up where the engine has tried to rapidly exit a few times, so I have to figure out what to secure it with. I have some fiber packing tape that might do the trick. Maybe a shot of Lustrekote to keep fuel from getting under it. Or Rustoleum, that might be a good permanent fix. I found a nice brand new red crankcase from one of Fit90's anodizing experiments, and a new crankshaft. I guess if I use a #1 or #4 cylinder I better put the KB backplate on it. This is one of the mounts that works with a choke tube, so I'll put the snorkel on too. The tank still snaps on tight but I might go with a larger capacity if I can get a wedgie in there.

Rusty

YOU GO BOY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kim wrote:When I set out to tow banners and flags with my MK I Kadet, I quickly found out that hooking the banner on-the-go COULD be done, but was a risky affair because you're having to watch both the hook AND what's going on with the plane.







The release ( a Robart Bomb Release) was located close to the CG of the plane.  A large, coarse-thread nut was cranked onto the bottom of the post, and I shortened the top line of the bridal after watching the heavy flag flying "nose-up" behind the plane on the first flight.  With the shorter top line, the flag flew a lot closer to level.

Also, I knew I'd eventually want to haul a BIG flag and was afraid that the Kadet might be caught behind the power curve when the line slack took up.

So, I lengthened the tow line, ran it up stream of the plane, with the banner stretched out and it's kingpost TOWARD the plane.  The Kadet was always up and climbing good by the time the line took up and 'peeled' the banner off the ground.

Since veterans and folks in general are a little testy about Old Glory laying on the ground, at our airport 4th of July Show, I was able to enlist the assistance of a young lady, getting her to hold the flag high, and let Mud Dabber snap it from her hands.

She then ran and caught it at release as the plane flew down the ramp.

And no...I didn't get a photo of her...and I DON'T have a good excuse !

Can you describe the bridle and weight, how you kept the banner upright?

flyjsh wrote:

RknRusty wrote: The tank still snaps on tight but I might go with a larger capacity if I can get a wedgie in there.

Rusty

That sounds painful

... I'm going to have to run a different tank too. This should tuck up neatly below the "observer's" cockpit.





I think that balloon will hold 10-12cc's of fuel. What would average for a run time on the reedie.. 6-7 minutes?

The post is a dowel peg, cut a couple inches taller than the flag.



Some home-made wire loops were pushed through the dowel, using large control-line connectors for the lines, with some bolts and washers through the flag's grommets.



On the Big Flag, I used a lead slug from an aircraft battery cap, running a long wood screw through it and into the dowel.  The Slug took a lot of pounding over the years as, when I'd drop the banner, it would lead the way to the ground !!!



The bridle is a single length of carpet thread, with a knot located at about the right spot to make the top line a bit shorter.



The take-off was really cool (when everything worked) with the banner slowly rotating to vertical as the MK-I pulled it up into the sky.  It also banked with the plane in turns.

I really wish someone would have shot some Super 8 film (yeah, it was a while back!), but only have still photos.

roddie wrote:

flyjsh wrote:

RknRusty wrote: The tank still snaps on tight but I might go with a larger capacity if I can get a wedgie in there.

Rusty

That sounds painful

... I'm going to have to run a different tank too. This should tuck up neatly below the "observer's" cockpit.





I think that balloon will hold 10-12cc's of fuel. What would average for a run time on the reedie.. 6-7 minutes?

We need some of the Guinness People to join the forum! You MAY be the first EVER to run a bladder system in a Cox PT-19 !!!!!

Kim wrote:

roddie wrote:

flyjsh wrote:

RknRusty wrote: The tank still snaps on tight but I might go with a larger capacity if I can get a wedgie in there.

Rusty

That sounds painful

... I'm going to have to run a different tank too. This should tuck up neatly below the "observer's" cockpit.





I think that balloon will hold 10-12cc's of fuel. What would average for a run time on the reedie.. 6-7 minutes?

We need some of the Guinness People to join the forum!  You MAY be the first EVER to run a bladder system in a Cox PT-19 !!!!!

This is a balloon tank Kim. To fill it; you pull back on a filling syringe to remove the air. Subsequent fueling is fuel "only".. and no air. The fuel pick-up has multiple "V-notches" cut through it's wall to assure fuel-flow as the balloon collapses. It's a "suction" system.

roddie wrote:
This is a balloon tank Kim. To fill it; you pull back on a filling syringe to remove the air. Subsequent fueling is fuel "only".. and no air. The fuel pick-up has multiple "V-notches" cut through it's wall to assure fuel-flow as the balloon collapses. It's a "suction" system.

Close enough for me !!!!

latex glove fingers work well too.