Completely off topic, but please help

Hi Rod
I use to have an 80 firebird, I'm think the manual might be in the workshop but i hurt my back recently (lifting heavy stuff I shouldn't) and, except for trips to the toilet and the computer,I'm basically confined to bed. If no one else sorts it for you I'll see if I can find it and send a scan of the horn circuit to you.
Cheers
Dave

(deleted by the author due to false info)

Managed a trip to the workshop but can't locate manual. I know its there somewhere but it may not be any help because I think 82 was a new shape and the wiring may be different. I imagine it will be fitted with a horn relay and the trick is to find it. It may be in the engine compartment but most likely under the dash.When you push the horn button do you hear the relay click. Probably not, things are never that easy. If you can locate it, it will have at least three terminals on it. One is 12v power, one goes to the horn and the other goes to the horn push on the steering wheel. Using a multi meter determine which is the 12v, which goes to the horn push which is usually to earth thru the horn push and the last will be feed wire to the horn. when your sure of this bridge the 12v to the horn wire. if the horn goes the issue is betwwen the relay and the horn push. if not it's between the relay and the horn.
Hope this is of some assistance to you. Most likely the hardest part will be locating the relay and accessing it.
Dave

Davenz13 wrote:Managed a trip to the workshop but can't locate manual. I know its there somewhere but it may not be any help because I think 82 was a new shape and the wiring may be different. I imagine it will be fitted with a horn relay and the trick is to find it. It may be in the engine compartment but most likely under the dash.When you push the horn button do you hear the relay click. Probably not, things are never that easy. If you can locate it, it will have at least three terminals on it. One is 12v power, one goes to the horn and the other goes to the horn push on the steering wheel. Using a multi meter determine which is the 12v, which goes to the horn push which is usually to earth thru the horn push and the last will be feed wire to the horn. when your sure of this bridge the 12v to the horn wire. if the horn goes the issue is betwwen the relay and the horn push. if not it's between the relay and the horn.
Hope this is of some assistance to you. Most likely the hardest part will be locating the relay and accessing it.
Dave

Thanks Dave.  I think you may be right- this will be a different model. (Same shape as "Kit" from Night Rider) Man I hated that show Looks like this. 3rd generation.

Done the tests but can't locate the relay or the fuse.  Horn has single power wire and is earthed through the mount.  No click, no power, still have to figure out how to get the horn button apart to check for a good earth.  I expect power goes from the fuse to the relay & the button earths the relay.  That's normally how it goes.

By the way, I put out the request here about an American car because the majority of posters here are from the USA, and I get my strongest lead from a Kiwi??  That was unexpected.

I had an '82 Bonneville at one time, my second car, sorta (My parents got it with a blown engine and transmission. I fixed it so I could have my Dad's '79 Nova, I6, great driving car...which got wrecked the first weekend it was mine. Kid made a left turn into me..) I drove it to college my freshman year, but the carbureted V6 got the same gas mileage and half the horsepower of my parents fuel injected suburban with a V8! Comfortable car though. Everybody thought it was a retired cop car because I had old "pie pan" moons with beauty rings on the wheels since the original spoke hubcaps were gone.

But I digress.

IIRC the relay for the horn was underneath the headlight next to the radiator. The only way to FIND the thing if you didn't know where _exactly_ it was involved visually tracing the wire back to the relay. I recall using a couple plastic bread bag clips to help keep track of what wire I was looking at since everything under the hood was coated in slime and grime. I had to replace the horn relay when I first got it on the road.

Phil

Hey Rod, I'm not real good at this stuff.. but found a few diagrams that might help.







Below is a Camaro "Berlinetta" model's horn-relay location.. but it might be the same.

You are correct it's a 3rd generation. The F body generation list goes like this 1st 67-69, 2nd 70-81, 3rd 82-92, 4th 93-02 and 5th 2010 on
I've had a few camaro's which the firebird is based off of and shares most of the components and wiring. As far as the horn goes make sure the slip ring under the steering wheel is not dirty or corroded and is making good contact since the power for the horn and such is sourced through it. The button it's self can also me an issue too. Anyway I was going to post up a diagram but looks like Roddie beat me to it lol. The wiring diagram should be the same between the camaro and firebird with the exception of added equipment. Hope this helps (Bandit)

Oldenginerod wrote:By the way, I put out the request here about an American car because the majority of posters here are from the USA, and I get my strongest lead from a Kiwi??  That was unexpected.

When I left school I did an automotive electrical apprenticeship with Joseph Lucas (commonly refered to as the Prince of Darkness) and for thirteen years worked on everything from motobikes, cars, trucks and earthmoving vehicles through to ships. I loved the job but lousy money. Left and worked for the government till I retired. Lousy job but I loved the money.

Heres a picture of the 80 firebird I bought in 1989. Definitely no muscle car but had all the whistles and bells and the ladies loved it and all wanted to go for a ride in it. My second wife made me sell it.

Thanks for the help guys. I'll see how I go deciphering Roddie's diagrams (thanks for them) & that should lead me in the right direction. I really appreciate the advice.
Dave, working on Lucas electrics you would never be out of a job. I'm a scrutineer for a classis car club and the number of times someone has come to me to have their car inspected only to find that all the things that worked fine when they left home no longer work. (They may have hit a bump!!)
Generally, a thump & a wriggle will do enough to get them through the inspection, but by the time they get home it's all gone wrong again. Lucas! Gotta love it.

Third Gen F-bodies rock!


If you look close you can see the top of jr's helmet, riding shotgun!

Do I gather from your post that you have some experience then Mark?

The car I'm working on is a bit of an oddity (to me). It was purchased by the current owner as a demonstrator in '83 & shipped to France. From there he picked it up and drove it home to Bosnia. He shifted to Australia when things got a bit hot in Bosnia & put the Firebird into storage, hoping that he'd move back there. He never did & had it shipped out to Australia a couple of years ago. 36,000 miles on the clock, but has suffered badly at the hands of incompetent Bosnian mechanics. To my surprise it was a manual and to me even bigger surprise is a 2.5 litre 4 cylinder "Iron Duke". The authorities and fuel costs didn't allow a V8 in Bosnia. I'm surprised at how well it goes, but I really don't see how the chassis would handle a 5 litre V8. The undecarriage seems very light.

Wow, that bird's been around Must have great sentimental value to the owner, shipping It 3/4s around the world isn't cheap. But I think they must have had pretty competent mechanics in Yugoslavia at the time, since most of the cars back then and there were Yugos

Spare parts must have been difficult to get, as well as non-metric hardware and tools, so that may explain some of its condition. But that "Kitt", even with a four-banger, must have been quite a "magnet" in '80s Yugoslavia

these were alittle after my car mech years but most the time it was iether the horn relay or the slip ring conn. under the steering wheel that failed , if you pull off the cover at the steering wheel and can see the the ring try grounding it with a sc. driver to see if it will blow /// the relay could be marked as accessories also . Good Luck , hopefully it want need a harness . Eric

Oldenginerod wrote:Do I gather from your post that you have some experience then Mark?

I'm a typical "shade tree" auto enthusiast and about all i know about wiring is a short, is a bee-itch to find!

The 2.5L was the standard engine the first couple years for the Gen3 cars, they had a lower axle ratio than the v6 or v8 and had some weight saving components, aluminum behind urethane bumpers, etc., I don't think you could get a 4 cly with a automatic. The chassis seems to do fine as far as handing the torque, he 5 spd. won't handle a strong 350 and the rear end is suspect. Your right, seeing a standard drive train with the upgraded trim package is pretty rare combo, but back in the day, if it was offered you could order it.

Oldenginerod wrote:The car I'm working on is a bit of an oddity (to me).  It was purchased by the current owner as a demonstrator in '83 & shipped to France.  From there he picked it up and drove it home to Bosnia.  He shifted to Australia when things got a bit hot in Bosnia & put the Firebird into storage, hoping that he'd move back there.  He never did & had it shipped out to Australia a couple of years ago.  36,000 miles on the clock, but has suffered badly at the hands of incompetent Bosnian mechanics.  To my surprise it was a manual and to me even bigger surprise is a 2.5 litre 4 cylinder "Iron Duke".  The authorities and fuel costs didn't allow a V8 in Bosnia.  I'm surprised at how well it goes, but I really don't see how the chassis would handle a 5 litre V8.  The undecarriage seems very light.

Interesting story Rod! The "Iron Duke" was/is a reliable engine. Turbo-charged transverse in an J-series 5sp. Sunbird GT was a blast to drive!



I worked at a Pontiac/British Leland (LOL.. I think Lucas was mentioned in this thread) dealer.. back in the 80's and got to drive everything Pontiac offered. The Trans-Am GTA's were my favorite! It was positioned in the same market as Chevy's "IROC-Z28". Both had the 5.7L V8.

Here's an example..



The Fiero's cost GM a LOT of money which is a shame. A poorly designed cooling system for the mid-rear engine layout was to blame. Many of them experienced serious engine-trouble directly related to this, while well-within the factory warranty period. The only model that didn't have these problems was the "Indy" version that had a functional air-scoop leading up from the engine bay.. through the cowl with it's opening at the back of the roof above the rear window.



My buddy was a Pontiac mechanic there at that time.. and did countless Fiero engine jobs.. head-gaskets etc. The entire rear sub-frame unbolts and drops down for this.

Three years later.. GM finally got it together in the final "88" model year.. but by then it was too late. Surprisingly.. the suspension had been completely re-designed (for the much-better..) You can actually see it in the stance.

1988 "Formula".. this is the Fiero to have.


The Pontiac District Service Rep. drove a sleeper. I believe it was an early 80's Lemans coupe with the Buick 3.8L (ala Regal T-Type) port fuel injected intercooled/turbocharged V6 engine.. which he had massaged..   That car was sick.. 50's series rear rubber mounted on Centerline wheels and a shortened Corvette independent rear axle. Automatic H/D T400 racing transmission.. brake-line locks.. dual exhaust dumps..  This man was in charge of the districts GM mechanics ASE certifications.  Occasionally he’d stop in with the beast.

Every generation GM F-body could have benefited from installing sub-frame-connectors if it had any muscle. I owned a 1975 H-body that originally had a factory 4.6L. V8. It was a Chevy Monza 2+2. I bought it for $500 USD less engine/trans. and my mechanic buddy installed a 5.0L V8/auto. trans. that came out of a full-size 80's Chevy wagon. It was a challenge.. because I had to source the V8 mounts for the H-body.. the earlier "short-neck" water-pump and the "holy grail" V8 H-body brackets/pulleys to mount the alternator and PS pump. Hop-ups were all external to the otherwise stock engine. Accel-HEI coil module, Holley alum. intake w/Holley 600cfm 4bbl carb./vac. secondaries, and 3-piece "Don Hardy" V8 Vega headers.. that were designed for a V8 Vega... Shoe-horning those in was a feat in itself. GM also made the Starfire, Skyhawk and Firenza I believe with V8's too.