Perfect day in Huntersville, the circles were busy all day

**RknRusty** Sat May 30, 2015 10:33 pm

Nice gentle wind from the best direction possible, all day. It was about 90 degrees by mid day. I got there about 10:00, so I had 4 hours to fly before the meeting. We had a good turnout too. Don Jenkins was trimming his latest creation, Scorpio. Don builds beautiful planes, no shortcuts. His stunt mentor is Ed Ruane, or EddyR on Stunthangar. Sonny Williams picked up the handle for the first time in two years and did quite well. Will Davis backed him up in case he got dizzy, but he hung in there pretty well. Brian Malin of BMJR Enterprises with his big ol' green Sturmovik, Will Davis brought Ugly Betty, the formerly LA46 Vector-turned-E. He's the new president of MCLS now, and I think he will make the club better. It's been needing grounds work, especially the trees, and he appears to be proactive. He also brought his electric contest TEOSAWKI. Watt Moore brought a T-6 Texan he bought as a teenager in 1952 and just finished this week. Hey, y'all think I take a long tine... I wasn't born when he bought those plans. It has a McCoy Redhead, and it was maiden day. There were a number of others that came to fly too, including myself.

I brought the Yak-9 and the Oriental and left the Nobler at home. I don't need a peanut gallery chattering the first time I test fly it. And I'd rather test over grass too, and these guys all hang around at the paved circles. I finally got that sweet run I've missed the last couple of times out with the Oriental and flew a couple of patterns with it, only one on Camera. I did get a Yak-9 flight on camera. It was a little rich at first, but became better behaved after burning off about 1 of it's 4 ounces. It's too fluttery in the breeze for me to feel comfortable pattern flying, especially over the tarmac. I'm extra careful with it, I want to keep it for a long time. I know stuff happens, but I just fun fly it. It was good to hear the old Fox run again, no muffler, just noise and smoke.It might be louder than Watt's Redhead. By the way, we got the Texan cranked, but technical difficulties prevented the maiden. I did get it in one of my videos, so look for it when I post those. It's a beauty.

After The Yak flights I took a break before flying the Oriental again. My earlier needle setting seemed too lean this tine so I tweaked it open some more, a little too much as it turns out. It flew pretty comfortably, and I got the camera on it. It cut off in the intersection of my V8. I checked and the tank had about 1/8 ounce left in it, which is when it always cuts off. My earlier flights were getting 5 laps after the Clover, which is cutting it too close. I either need a smaller venturi or a bigger tank. I'm thinking venturi because 4 ounces is a lot to drink in that short of a time while running well. You'll see in the video, it could have been a tad leaner, but it shouldn't be that damn close. It has a .257"(6.5mm). I'm thinking I need a .236(6mm) or whatever the next size down is. I need advice from one of my more knowledgeable buddies here on that. Ans there was a little unfortunate road rash involved there, which I'll cover in my next installment. Also with pictures, as I've already gotten a good start on the minor surgery out in the shop.

I'll get some of those videos crunching. Too late for tonight but I'll have them up and running tomo... oh wait, it's only Saturday. Whew, long day. Well, we'll see. It's been a full day of fun and sun. I just kind of blurted out what hit the keyboard. I hope y'all like my stories. Now, off to fool with movies. See ya later.
Rusty

**RknRusty** Sun May 31, 2015 12:38 am

Here is the Oriental. It was a decent speed for me if not slightly too slow.
https://youtu.be/_ly8cBIJiJ0

stuntflyr Sun May 31, 2015 2:18 am

Dang, did you wreck it?
Chris...

P.S. Make the triangle entry less of an angle, stand them up a little taller.

**RknRusty** Sun May 31, 2015 4:22 am

stuntflyr wrote:Dang, did you wreck it?
Chris...

P.S. Make the triangle entry less of an angle, stand them up a little taller.

Yeah, stupid me tried to tuck under to land on the wheels. But tucking under into a tailwind never works. That's the POW you heard after the cutoff. I feel extremely stupid about that. Otherwise I would have only scrubbed the canopy and rudder.

It shattered my spinner and I got a clean hairline separation right behind where the bottom wing cap is glued at the rear. I almost didn't notice it at all until I forced it to flex during my inspection. And a hairline fracture 2 inches long in the sheeting just behind the outboard wing's LE. Not sure what caused that. I already glued the latter and will make a bigger fillet around the wing root on bottom for extra strength. I have a thick epoxy/Microballoon fillet on top. I've checked the wing strength and it's still solid with no flex, so no internal damage. Simple fixes that another hour in the shop will be stronger than before. I could have probably flown it again and never noticed these, But I was pretty thorough in my inspection. It didn't even scuff the prop. I have pictures to post on the repairs.

You're right, in fact I have been making taller tops on the triangles lately. Sometimes as I move from improving on one stunt I revert to my old mistakes on one prior to it. That's the case here, as I've been working on my Sq 8s. I will make more equilateral triangles. I am starting to hit better bottoms. The pavement had me a little itchy today. I'm used to grass. Thanks for the critique.
Rusty

Ken Cook Sun May 31, 2015 5:44 am

Rusty, something doesn't sound correct here. I believe and I could confirm this later but I was under the impression the LA .25 (Small venturi was .265"). You made reference to this .257" prior and it caught my attention. I was never aware of a venturi made by OS that small. Using the small venturi on the FP.40 can really heat things up. A larger venturi would offer better benefits in terms of going into a maneuver and having the engine break lean but return and settle quickly back into a wet 2. It's going to also reduce your fuel economy. If your satisfied with your engine run and you don't want to change the plane's flying speed a larger tank is needed. You pretty much knew that from what we discussed early on. A 4 oz. tank and a FP.40 is really not enough fuel to do the pattern reliably. Your experiencing the short comings of hinging on the edge due to not enough fuel load. One day you make it, the next day you don't. One run is too fast, one run is just right but you fall short of completion. I like to setup a FP .40 with a .272 and run 5% nitro and a 4.5-5 oz. tank. The nice benefit about the ARF is that you can jam a large tank into it.

My concern would be that choking down the FP is going to trigger it to go lean and it will stay there to the end of the flight. At this point with the setup you have, I would add 1 head gasket .010" thick and refly. This will soften the break but will require you to lean the engine in more to get back the same level of power in turn increasing your fuel economy. This could easily yield you a full pattern and several laps at the end.

Just as a reminder, you can do 5 laps on takeoff vs the supposed 6 and if possible stick to the 2 laps in between. I would try and squeeze every drop of fuel into the plane that you possibly can. While this may or may not be a good option, I would even go as far to creeping the leadout position slightly further ahead to prevent yaw and this can also assist in delivering all of the fuel load. Another option is to remove the tank and pull out the overflow vent. If there's a sharp bevel on the tube, you can lessen it slightly and resolder the tube into the tank insuring that it's jammed all the way to the top of the tank. While these things sound silly, they can all add up and even trying wider bladed Thunder Tiger I sent you for the Magnum could be effective. I'm not a big fan of the prop on the FP due to it loading things a bit but it works and it will lessen your rpm's still yielding ample thrust. Problem is though they're no longer available. Ken

**Cribbs74** Sun May 31, 2015 9:35 am

That's kinda odd Rusty, the run sounded spot on and was pretty consistant. If this is the first instance of that happening maybe you sucked something in to the engine. It certainly wasn't sagging it just changed tune and shut off. Instead of changing venturi's maybe you can run some nylon stocking on it and see what that does.

I hate shutoffs because they make you hesitant that it will happen again.

Your flying stance is really improving as are your stunts. Sorry you dinged your babe, but hey they all have an expiration date.

Keep us posted when you fix it as to what the fix action was.

Ron

**RknRusty** Sun May 31, 2015 10:09 am

Yeah Ron I want to know it's going to make it all the way without any doubts. Haha, it ain't expired yet. It'll be ready to fly by this afternoon, and I'll be back over the grass later this week, either at the Fort or at Watts. We need to get his Texan going before Brodak, same time as my beach trip. So one more day for me to fly before then.

Here I go again, making Ken patiently repeat himself. Yes, in my frustration, not to mention the barrage of offhand advice from the peanut gallery yesterday, I hadn't remembered Ken warning that a smaller venturi will heat up the .40. I have measured and re-measured and all of my FPs, the .40, 25 and 35, all have a .257" venturi with an OS stock spraybar.

I love the way it runs now. Maybe a tad leaner in case a thermal blows through during the pattern, but close. I did have to step back a couple of times yesterday, but nothing threatening. I want to know what kind of scores I would make on my takeoffs, I'm getting good at those on grass and pavement. In fact I had to make it lift after the rollout yesterday, and I'm holding it low much better. It's a good thing since I'm losing all those points in my landings. I need to work on my hand position, I still bet contorted in an unproductive position some times at the bottom of maneuvers, worsening my bobbles. My latest improvements should be evident in that video though. Two years ago this month. That's when I found out about CLPA.

Too pretty to sit here inside, see y'all later this afternoon.
Rusty

roddie Sun May 31, 2015 1:35 pm

Hi Rusty, I hope the repairs are going well. I always enjoy you sharing your experiences. Ken's help/experience is of great value to all.. and it's really good to see you both publically documenting how some adjustments/changes can affect your airplanes. There's so much to learn. I try to absorb as much as I can through reading.. but I've saved a lot of conversation to word docs on the computer.. because I know I'll want to retrieve the information in the future.

On a side-note.. I noticed several "chicken-hopper" style fuel tanks in Wrentham, at the N.E.S.T. fun-fly two weeks ago.

Perfect day in Huntersville, the circles were busy all day Dsc02710

Perfect day in Huntersville, the circles were busy all day Dsc02710

Perfect day in Huntersville, the circles were busy all day Dsc02711

Note that they're both vented the same with different engines.. and that all tubes exit forward horizontally through the front.. not the top. I'd be curious to know if and how-far the vents extend inside the tank. I don't know who their owners where.. or I would have asked them that question. Have you thought about trying one on the Yak? Maybe they work particularly well on Sterling profile-designs for some reason?

**RknRusty** Sun May 31, 2015 2:36 pm

Wayne uses a chicken hopper on one of his profiles, I forget which one though. On the Yak, I use a standard vent 4 ounce wedge, one of the ones with 5 bends in it like a Brodak 541 if you want to look it up. It works really well. I'll post the Yak flight video in a while.

I fixed the Oriental's battle scars.

LE crack before repair. You can see holes I punched so I gould press gorilla glue through it.

Perfect day in Huntersville, the circles were busy all day Wp_20110

I put a good strong fillet on the root next to the crack(not shown), and painted the area with epoxy for good measure, and so it holds the original strip of covering down. It should be an invisible repair.
Next to that was where I added a fillet to the root.

Perfect day in Huntersville, the circles were busy all day Wp_20111

Here's the fuselage repair
A 1-1/2" x 4" strip of fiberglass and epoxy. I flexed it and made sure I got glue into the joint too. Then weighted it to hold it closed while the epoxy set. It's strong and the stab is still in alignment.

Perfect day in Huntersville, the circles were busy all day Wp_20112

Ken Cook Sun May 31, 2015 5:08 pm

Roddie, a chicken hopper is very simple. The pickup is soldered internally inside the small bump (Hopper) and it typically stops about 1/8' from the rear corner of that little tank. Think of a chicken hopper as a large tank with a small tank grafted onto it. The larger tank doesn't have a hole cutout underneath the small hopper. What it does have is just above the centerline bend of the tank is a small hole drilled. There's one hole above centerline and one below. This is what feeds the hopper. The hopper feeds due to the unequal pressure differences. The other two pipes are the fill and the overflow. The fill though is actually a uniflow pipe and this is the pipe that is closest to the hopper. That pipe runs internally to the rear of the tank and turns a 90 into the hopper. This is why fixing a hopper tank is a pain in the rear. Your dealing with a lot of solder connections internally . If you have to get inside the hopper, the heat needed can loosen the solder joints for the uniflow now requiring the entire back to come off. The hopper itself is a problem anyhow typically due to just the metal being cut to fit around the existing tank. Solder doesn't take the place of metal. It's subjected to vibrations and this is a sure fire way to generate a leak.The pipe closest to the fuse is the overflow and it goes into the tank 1/4" The original GRW tanks had the end caps of the hopper flanged.

GRW in my opinion made the best chicken hopper tanks. GRW was taken over by Eric Rule of RSM. I personally seen a difference in the old to the new. Let's just say I'm not giving up my old ones. Brodak makes them as well.

One major problem with chicken hoppers that occurs is that the cylinder head laying on it's side blocks the airflow into the uniflow pipe. This dirty air can cause a MAJOR problem and needs to be effectively directed into the tank properly or the tank won't work. If you note on the white Ringmaster the overflow which is capped is laying up and onto the cylinder head. This is how you achieve proper air delivery with the uniflow pipe (Not shown). You need to extend it up onto the cylinder head the same way or for even better results pipe it through the fuse and have it exit into the wind on the inboard side of the fuse. Ken

roddie Sun May 31, 2015 5:56 pm

Thanks Ken, I PM'd Rusty a hopper plan/layout that I had. I had a good experience soldering my speed tanks together last year. (thanks in a big part to you) I realize that this is not a simple rectangular tank though.. but I'd like to give it a try. None of my current tanks are much larger than 1oz. and I've got several .15 to .35 size profile stunters in various stages of construction that will need tanks. After what you told me about the way hard-tanks are mass-produced; past/present.. I'd rather build my own.. whatever style/venting configuration may be.

Here's a circa 1995 design 4.5oz. hopper-tank layout that I sent to Rusty.. and I apologize (Rusty.. ) for diluting this thread.. but I may as well show a photo of the internals.. for those who are curious.

This is from the Tulsa "Glue-Dobbers" site.. and is of the construction that Ken mentioned.

Perfect day in Huntersville, the circles were busy all day From_t12

Perfect day in Huntersville, the circles were busy all day From_t12

Perfect day in Huntersville, the circles were busy all day From_t13

**RknRusty** Sun May 31, 2015 8:52 pm

Here's the Yak-9 video
https://youtu.be/8sqko2a1CXE

Stay tuned for a tour of the pits including Watt's Texan w/McCoy Redhead for power.
Rusty

**RknRusty** Sun May 31, 2015 9:06 pm

I meant to mention, a separation any worse than mine could propagate into and break the whole rear fuse in half. If this fiberglass were put on at the time of assembly(or at the factory), it could prevent a very serious break. I see no reason not to add this to the list of upgrades to this airframe.
Cut the covering and apply one strip of fiberglass, 1.5"x4" to this joint with epoxy.

While I was building it, I read of other internal preventive measures to do this same thing. My repair is quick and easy and almost flush if you can be neat and conservative with the epoxy. I can't even tell there's a repair there unless I look closely.

Perfect day in Huntersville, the circles were busy all day Wp_20112

Rusty

**Cribbs74** Sun May 31, 2015 10:35 pm

Looks good!

That Mallet could tell some stories judging by the amount of wear on it.

Ron

KariFS Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:33 am

Looks like one of your precision calibration tools has lost a handle Smile

Great stories BTW, keep'em coming. I am slightly envious of your flying company (which I have none as of yet) and the weather you have. Right now it's 55 deg F and 6mph wind here in Finland. It's been the coldest May in 15 years they say Cold

EDIT: Typo on the wind speed: 16mph, gusts up to 34 according to the latest report Airplane

Ken Cook Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:08 am

Rusty is beginning to dabble into the use of redhead Mccoy's those tools are obviously being used to adjust compression ratios. He hasn't found a way to accommodate them into his pit box quite yet. Ken

**RknRusty** Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:21 am

Cribbs74 wrote:Looks good!

That Mallet could tell some stories judging by the amount of wear on it.

Ron

Haha, yep, that's my One Lick Stick. It dates back to pounding on race car parts, and has led a busy and fulfilling life ever since. I love my hammers. I don't take no crap offa no machinery.

KariFS wrote:Looks like one of your precision calibration tools has lost a handle

Great stories BTW, keep'em coming. I am slightly envious of your flying company (which I have none as of yet) and the weather you have...

Don't worry, writing is another hobby. I'm lucky to have fallen with a bunch of good buddies. That pleasure is not lost on me.

That handle wore out. That's when I got the aforementioned short handled mini sledge for my birthday. Holley's sister asked, "What's Rusty want for his birthday?" Holley says, "A hammer." Sis says, "What? A hammer!"
The old hammer head is so useful I don't need a handle on it. It always sits atop my anvil and I shape s#!+ with it. That and my .75"x.75"x6" brass bar are two of my favorite tools.

Ken Cook wrote: Rusty is beginning to dabble into the use of redhead Mccoy's those tools are obviously being used to adjust compression ratios. He hasn't found a way to accommodate them into his pit box quite yet. Ken

Ooooh No! Lol I ain't messin' with no McCoys. But if I had one, I might just give it the two step tenderness test with my tenderness test tools.
lol!

**RknRusty** Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:53 pm

Here's a quick compilation of some planes and flights, including the Texan.

https://youtu.be/9kjZYCHEUMg

**Cribbs74** Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:32 pm

Thanks Rusty.

Work has kept me so busy that I can only enjoy through those that have the time. Missing the rush.

Ron

Theo Kleynhans Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:46 am

Hi Rusty, thanks for all the videos and info. It is great and I always enjoy the commentary and flight reports.

I must say I agree with Ken. I would not go smaller than a 6.5mm venturi on a 40 size engine. I think the optimal would be around 6.8mm. I do not know a lot as all of you guys, but I have just recently moved from my 15 size trainer to a nice 40 size P51-D pofile mustang, and I had some major issues to get the engine running. I will create a new topic and discuss a bit what has happened.

But to get back to your topic, what fuel are you guys using there? I am using 5% nitro with 22% oil on the 40 size engine.

Sorry to see the damages on the Oriental. But it seems that you have the repairs well in control. I always fly over Tarmac. We do not have a decent grass circle.

Theo

**RknRusty** Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:18 am

Theo! I'm glad to see you drop in on us, thanks for reading my thread. My only South African connection lately is an occasional post from Keith Renecle. He's quite impressed with your enthusiasm and progress both building and flying.

You're right about the venturi. I'm a little embarrassed by letting myself be so easily influenced by the peanut gallery at the field. No offense to them, they're smart guys, but I should trust what I know and stick with common sense. The facts are, the engine can be tuned as-is to pull the airframe exactly like I want it. I put up several flights in 90 degree weather with no heat induced lean runaway. For some reason on that last flight, it was running faster when I cranked it, so I opened the needle and caused it to use too much fuel. My earlier flights had been only slightly faster. It was plenty comfortable, though I had to step back slightly a couple of times, but hardly noteable. I think. I should watch the video again to be sure, but I was clearly wrong to mess with the mixture... at least as much as I did. So I don't need to introduce any more complications, just give it an extra ounce of fuel. It's too close as it is even when I get a proper run. I'm still getting to know this plane. I had only flown 2 patterns on it before the Huntersville and Joe Nall contests, and none since then. I was grounded by wind on the only practice day since then.

Will says, "Hey, that's an fp, man, they run right 9 out of 10 times and then need adjusting. You need to get an LA." That may be true, but I don't have an LA, and all I need is 1 more ounce of fuel. I usually don't use a tach after I'm familiar with a plane, and just checked it before that flight at 10.8k. Knowing that, and given adequate fuel, I think 11K is right on the mark for a light wind. Maybe slightly faster for a more blustery day.

So the shopping list I send to Brodak with Wayne includes a BH-561, 5 ounce tank that is 1" longer and otherwise identical. Got the right fuel, got the right tank, got the right airframe, and got an engine that I will be able to tune by ear once I'm more familiar with it. Btw, I'm using 10/22 fuel. Right now it's castor-added Sig, and 2 gallons of Powermaster on the shelf. 5% nitro would likely get me through the pattern more economically, but a tank is cheaper than the $50 bucks worth of fuel I already have. Plus 10% fuel needles a little more reliably, especially considering 100+ weather is coming soon. All of our guys use 5-10% fuel, so no radical change if I ever had to buy or borrow some on the fly... so to speak.
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!
Rusty

Sig Skyray Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:48 am

RknRusty wrote:Here's a quick compilation of some planes and flights, including the Texan.

Sweet! Thanks Rusty!
Greg

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Perfect day in Huntersville, the circles were busy all day

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