Drone registration

To greater understand all this you MUST read the entire tome of decision process the DOT and FAA had to make public.

If you do you will see they do have a mandate from Congress to do "something" in light of the incidents that already are history*

Then if you read the transcripts of all the entities who were part of the working group you will see that the AMA was the only one with our HOBBY interests in mind and trying to carve out an exemption

However the several other entities all seemed to agree that registration was necessary and each from their own business or insurance liability perspective

Amazon, for example  NEEDS a clear set of rules so they can move forward with their testing and risk analysis and get a major insurer to understand the rules so they ( the insurer) can adaquatly determine risk, liability, and a proper fee schedule for the big commercial uses/users of drones

In this world of NAS and commercial use we are an outlier..an anomaly, a hindrance, and a pain in the ass for the government and business (lobbyists)

The AMA never will have any serious standing even if all 180,000 members were in lock step agreement.... today's government politicians don't even flinch at sub million vote swings

* The biggie is the incident in California where fire response and coordination crews were grounded while a drone or two was encroaching in this special use airspace causing a serious safety of flight hazard. The grounding resulted in MORE property destruction, and potential loss of life....

Any one with any knowledge of emergency air operations can see this is a big freaking deal and must have some ENFORCEABLE solution

I am disappointed that the DOT and FAA as so ignorant about the entire universe of model aircraft and their capabilities. They never spent the time to do a proper risk analysis BY TYPE and USE to target the proper users that might some day cause similar hazards

And I am much more disappointed that otherwise smart people CANNOT see that registering legal citizen gun owners has NEVER yet stopped a murder or mass shooting

Until we, the voting public, are willing to FIRE (vote OUT OF OFFICE) every single incumbent, the professional politicians will continue to believe they have more power then the public they are sworn to protect and defend

Sorry fellow airplane hobbyists...we gets the government we are willing to keep in office no matter how incompetent or ignorant they may be

Pragmatist Phred

Also, did you know the FAA is pushing to privatize ATC. That's bad! Where will money be had to pay for all of this? User fees and the elimination of expenses. We 'model airplane idiots' aren't needed and are considered an expense after all is said and done. $5 registration fees won't cover it, guys. The EAA and AOPA(?) have been dodging the user fees issue so far but the writing is on the wall. Something is gonna give and it ain't gonna be 'purdy' when it does! Do you think the AMA/FAA debacle is just happenstance from 'outlaw' drone flyers? No! But the 'outlaws' have succeeded in giving the FAA the ammo it needs (along with sensationalist news media groups like Fox) to pursue their goal. They just want to deal with money making commercial airline interests. It's as simple as that. If we as modelers hinder their interests in any way shape or form you can bet your last dollar the FAA will do what it needs to rid itself of the perceived hindrance. There's a lot of 'smoke and mirrors' goin' on. We and the AMA aren't privy to real reasons! With big gov't behind it all I'm sure it boils down to 'control' and money. What else is there?

ARUP is correct about DOT/FAA having a much larger agenda then we are privy to.

I was/am interested in all the nashing of teeth these last 20 years about the decaying Air Traffic Control systems. While researching this NPRM, I came across the FAA future plans to transition from ground based radar control to GPS control

Some of you may be interested in this stuff so google FAA ATC future and take a gander

I think most citizens have no true perspective on how big a task managing the NAS is so here is a link to blow your mind

http://www.flightradar24.com/31.21,-98.01/10

As I type this there are 11,370 aircraft in the territorial sky of the USA

Fred,

A question of that busy NAS you posted data about - how many of those 11,000 some odd aircraft are flying at or below, say 2000 feet outside of a 5 mile radius of an airport?

Cause that is where law abiding hobbyists would pursue their hobby within the NAS where they might impact air safety or pose any danger to air traffic.

This is simply a case of a government bureaucracy reaching as far and wide for as much control as they can, when they really need to be finding a more efficient way of enforcing what restrictions they already have in place.

It's big gov't. The 'have nots' and 'do-nothings' are evidently in majority thus the current giveaway mentality administration which requires big gov't and czars. Be that as it may. The Dept for Education wasn't meant to be a 'forever' agency but it is! Our education system proves it. It keeps going backwards thus more 'intervention' by the Dept 'needed'. Children learn about birth control and urban legends but don't know cursive handwriting. If they can prove or explain why they think 2 + 2 = 5 then that is the correct answer! I'm not making this stuff up, folks. They can't read the Declaration of Independence... it is in cursive handwriting. Same with health care. It's more expensive now unless you are a ward of the state/ gov't. Ultimately, it will be so expensive that it will totally be 'umbrella-ed' into, most likely, Dept of Health and Human Services which used to be allied to the Dept of Educ. In other words... socialized medicine. Big money insurance groups are sure to be influencing how that ones plays out because they are the ones reaping the benefits... I mean... money. I have nothing against insurance, either. But the problem is that the definition of 'insurance' is not clear to most folks. Insurance is a hedge against catastrophe that has a price paid by those willing to accept the hedge or risk. Most folks think insurance means 'entitlement' and insurance companies seem to promote the false idea. Oh well... I just wanna play with my toy airplanes!
Admin: if this post seems out of line feel free to remove it.

Looks like an individual is suing the FAA over registration:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoglia/2016/01/04/faa-sued-in-federal-court-over-drone-registration-rules/

He should set up a legal defense croudfunding site for finacnial support. AMA hasn't said a peep in almost 2 weeks other than do not register.

VUgerhead

I see your point as it relates to us hobby small model flyers

What i was saying is the monumental task of keeping the ever increasing crowded NAS safe is lost on most of us Fly Over Citizens(pun intended)

When discussing what the government should or should not do and trying to vote for the best person to represent our interests: we must be knowledgeable and educated enough to understand all the necessary functions of the government. We also need this perspective to determine if they are wasting money to little or no effect.

In this case it helps to see the big picture to understand where the FAAs position and driving philosophy is.

Early on when the DoT/FAA released this proposal and stated their intent and desired end state all US citizens had a responsibility to participate and offer their opinions and recommend solutions..... only 4500 of us did

That is the real tragedy in my opinion.... then as you scan through the responses that did make it you see there are only a handful that were well written and offered alternative solutions

I do not like the position the FAA took and their final decision for only one reason..... mounting more restrictions on the law abiding and well behaved public to prevent the actions of a group that has demonstrated no respect for others, safety, common sense, or the law has never worked to deter these selfish outlaw butt heads

An AMA update received days ago:

Academy of Model Aeronautics wrote:Member Communication
Monday, January 11, 2016

Dear Members,

As you know, we have been working with our legal counsel and the FAA to find a solution for our members on the registration rule. To date, FAA has agreed in principle to several proposed initiatives that will help ease this process for our members. Specifically, they are:

• AMA and the FAA are working to streamline the registration process for AMA members whereby those who register with the FAA will be able to use their AMA number as the primary identification on their model aircraft, as opposed to adding a new federal registration number.
     
  
• In addition, AMA members' federal registration will automatically renew provided membership remains active and current. We are working with FAA in negotiating the renewal fee, but in any case it is envisioned the renewal process will be provided as a member benefit.
     
  
• In the future, federal registration will automatically be accomplished upon joining the AMA, eliminating the need to register with both AMA and the FAA.
  

These initiatives are a step in the right direction. However, we want to emphasize that this is not the end of our efforts to protect AMA members from this overreaching regulation. We are continuing to explore all legal and political options available, but these conversations may take time and a definitive solution is unlikely before the February 19 registration deadline.

Currently, registration is free of charge until January 19. If you would like to take advantage of this free period, you may want to register before that day. But please note that you have until February 19 to register in order to avoid violating the federal rule.  

We also want to encourage our members to submit comments to the FAA about the registration rule. It is critical that all AMA members are heard loud and clear on this issue. The deadline for submitting comments is Friday, January 15. Additional instruction is available here.

Thank you for your patience as we work to find the best path forward on registration. We are committed to doing everything possible to protect our hobby and ensure that future generations have the opportunity to fly.

Sincerely,

AMA

© 2016 Academy of Model Aeronautics.
5161 E. Memorial Dr., Muncie IN 47302
Tel.: (800) 435-9262; Fax.: (765) 289-4248
All rights reserved.
www.modelaircraft.org

GallopingGhostler wrote:An AMA update received days ago:

Academy of Model Aeronautics wrote:Member Communication
Monday, January 11, 2016

Dear Members,

As you know, we have been working with our legal counsel and the FAA to find a solution for our members on the registration rule. To date, FAA has agreed in principle to several proposed initiatives that will help ease this process for our members. Specifically, they are:

• AMA and the FAA are working to streamline the registration process for AMA members whereby those who register with the FAA will be able to use their AMA number as the primary identification on their model aircraft, as opposed to adding a new federal registration number.
     
  
• In addition, AMA members' federal registration will automatically renew provided membership remains active and current. We are working with FAA in negotiating the renewal fee, but in any case it is envisioned the renewal process will be provided as a member benefit.
     
  
• In the future, federal registration will automatically be accomplished upon joining the AMA, eliminating the need to register with both AMA and the FAA.
  

These initiatives are a step in the right direction. However, we want to emphasize that this is not the end of our efforts to protect AMA members from this overreaching regulation. We are continuing to explore all legal and political options available, but these conversations may take time and a definitive solution is unlikely before the February 19 registration deadline.

Currently, registration is free of charge until January 19. If you would like to take advantage of this free period, you may want to register before that day. But please note that you have until February 19 to register in order to avoid violating the federal rule.  

We also want to encourage our members to submit comments to the FAA about the registration rule. It is critical that all AMA members are heard loud and clear on this issue. The deadline for submitting comments is Friday, January 15. Additional instruction is available here.

Thank you for your patience as we work to find the best path forward on registration. We are committed to doing everything possible to protect our hobby and ensure that future generations have the opportunity to fly.

Sincerely,

AMA

2016 Academy of Model Aeronautics.
5161 E. Memorial Dr., Muncie IN 47302
Tel.: (800) 435-9262; Fax.: (765) 289-4248
All rights reserved.
www.modelaircraft.org

I hate to say this, but this is another typical know nothing do nothing statement.  

unhappydad           

happydad wrote:I hate to say this, but this is another typical know nothing do nothing statement. unhappydad

The problem is not so much that the AMA is not doing anything about it. Rather, it is about presidential hand appointed ministers in charge of these cabinet administrations, of which DOT supervising FAA is one, who hold a blatant disregard for what Congress has already passed as law. Similar to the cavalier attitude held by the President toward the peoples and their elected representatives, this one head is permitting similar disregard.

This is not a "government of the people, by the people, for the people".

I wonder what odds 'Jimmy the Greek' (remember him?) would have put on the AMA quitting their lawsuit against the FAA? I have a feeling it will happen, i.e., the AMA will back down. Seems quite a few members are quitting the AMA. New registrations will pick up the slack but it will be a 'flash in the pan' because most new drone operators will soon become bored with their 'new toy' and quit for the next 'new shiney toy' from china.

GallopingGhostler wrote:

happydad wrote:I hate to say this, but this is another typical know nothing do nothing statement. unhappydad

The problem is not so much that the AMA is not doing anything about it. Rather, it is about presidential hand appointed ministers in charge of these cabinet administrations, of which DOT supervising FAA is one, who hold a blatant disregard for what Congress has already passed as law. Similar to the cavalier attitude held by the President toward the peoples and their elected representatives, this one head is permitting similar disregard.

This is not a "government of the people, by the people, for the people".

I couldn't have said it better, whats going on in Washington makes me want to puke. Every morning I name a turd after a politician and flush twice cause its a long way to DC.

I got my stupid number. At least I don't "REQUIRE" it on my latest build!

Just a couple days left to get it for free, woo hoo.


Phil

pkrankow wrote:I got my stupid number.  At least I don't "REQUIRE" it on my latest build!

Just a couple days left to get it for free, woo hoo.


Phil

Don't you mean 1 month, Feb. 14th 19th?? Or am I getting old?  

edited 1-16-2016 at 11:09p.m. PST - to correct my incorrect date of Feb. 14th. -

"Currently, registration is free of charge until January 19. If you would like to take advantage of this free period, you may want to register before that day. But please note that you have until February 19 to register in order to avoid violating the federal rule. "

quoted from above in the AMA letter to members.


happydad          

I just registered a few minutes ago. Site is https://registermyuas.faa.gov/. I know this is counter to what some of you think. It was basically an acknowledgement of the "rules", which we as law abiding fliers already knew. Since it was before 12 midnight EST, Jan-16, https://registermyuas.faa.gov/ states my $5 to my credit card should be refunded.

AMA legal team is still waiting on an answer to their petition from the US Court of Appeals filed last August, regarding FCC's disregard for the law toward those in a community based organization. They are also working with FAA on having 3 year registration renewals being automatic as long as one maintains their membership. They are also working on use of the AMA number instead of the FAA registration number as an alternative on aircraft. Since I occasionally fly RC aircraft and still want to continue to do so, I complied. My disagreements belong in a letter to my elected representatives, and through proper channels where permitted.

So, the sun still shines in the morning and settles in the evening, I'm flying.

I was wondering what that $5 credit was on my credit card.

GallopingGhostler wrote:

So, the sun still shines in the morning and settles in the evening, I'm flying.

Agreed, sounds like we were on the site at the same time. I went ahead and got 'My Government Number' so my toy airplanes won't be a threat to national security.

Not worried about my 5 bucks...just wanting to get this item off my already crowded mind.

fredvon4 wrote:ARUP is correct about DOT/FAA having a much larger agenda then we are privy to.

I think most citizens have no true perspective on how big a task managing the NAS is so here is a link to blow your mind

http://www.flightradar24.com/31.21,-98.01/10

As I type this there are 11,370 aircraft in the territorial sky of the USA

Fred- you have just blown my mind, PHFFT.....ssssssss......BLAM!!  The link to the flight radar is "WayCool".   I've always wondered where they came from and where they are going as they pass over head.  Now I know it took off from JFK New York, headed to LAX at an altitude of 34,500ft. Pick a small plane over Lake Michigan, took off from DPA Chicago head to ??? 11,000 ft up,  just watched a American Airlines flight from Chicago to Grand Rapids. The flight path flew past Grand Rapids went 1/2 way to Lansing (60 miles out) to turn about to line up for the runway in GRR. And I thought I used a lot of airspace to make my final approach HA!  Zoom in over Chicago O'Hare, holy cow! That'll give anyone grey hair! Looks like buzzards circling over a dead carcass.  Yes, we deserve to be afraid when we fly.

I'm now wondering if the "Aero-med" jet-helicopter that flys over my house and rattles my windows is going to show up on this....I'm sure those are the pilots that are worried about my drone flying if I fly the same airspace they used to "save lives"  or are just out "hot doggin' " on a Sunday afternoon.

PS: I have registered myself on the FAA website. Thought I'd get in while it's still "free". They know who I am and where I live......so now I know somebody's watching me for sure!!

I'm conflicted about this. I have no problem registering my firearms, I'm licensed, but model airplanes? come-on. I can see drones maybe. It's to bad that the sins of a few affect so many.

This hobby has existed for a long time without government oversight other than the FCC's involvement with R/C. We live in the most free country on earth but this constant chipping away of our freedoms annoys me. Maybe my New Hampshire "Live free or die" roots are showing.

For now my five bucks is staying in my pocket.

Bob

The more I ponder this the more I get ticked off

I went ahead and registered mostly because I want to be able to tell/show my local LEO/Park Ranger types that I am in compliance with a Federal Law so leave me alone

I hope some day a citizen with big enough pockets challenges this under the equal protection side of our constitution

Congress INTENDED to shield us from the mandate THEY put on the Dot/FAA, and the DoT/FAA found a pretty sound way to skirt that congressional carve out


I wrote both my Senators and got pretty limp wristed responses; in both cases not even addressing my concern...That the FAA side stepped THEIR intent
The DoT/FAA, by their enforceable rule, took a class of citizen and imposed a new tax (registration fee) that only one other group of hobbyists are required to suffer. That being Amateur radio

Maybe I am all wet but I can't think of another class of citizen hobby activity that requires a license or registration to participate in their leisure time activity

Model Rocketry
Fly fishing
RC cars
real closed course cars
rock climbing
rock climbing with a vehicle
Base jumping
Skeet shooting
dungeons and dragons
on and on

OK you can add Hunting to the Tax fee side

but not geocaching

If any citizen has to pay to play then all should or NONE should

I should be free to do ANYTHING I desire as long as my doing so does not deter from some other citizens desires or damages them or their property. We have many many laws, ordinances, and statutes to punish us if we harm each other in some way

I think there are plenty of Federal and state laws controlling our behavior near or on any airport, they are time tested and enforceable IF the powers that be, AND we citizens, wanted to invest in the enforcement side with surveillance and trained manpower

I should be able to buy or make any tool I desire and if that tool kills a human or damages their property then I must defend my action and seek agreement from a Judge or a jury of my peers that my action was reasonable or justified...if it was not then I must accept the punishment

I can't believe I am 60 and just this year got permission from my government to walk around in public with a fire arm
Make it even more ludicrous that I must apply for, get trained, and pay to conceal that weapon

Got mine hope there happy , Damn what a number !!! It say that Jan. 21 st is the dead line for FREE . getbucked

Pretty sure most states require a fishing license...

Part of the problem is if it flies, and has some form of control input, it is a drone in the eyes of this set of rules. Supposedly control line is exempted now, but this is not spelled out on the website.

While free flight IS exempted I expect that confusion about electric free flight or electronic timers on fueled engines will cause significant problems for those people too. (yes some people use a micro servo and a timer circuit instead of a mechanical timer.) The presence of any electronics will become an instant classification of "DRONE!!!!"!!!!! (yes that is way too many bangs since that is how knee jerk all this feels)

To date there are more reported collisions with TURTLES than drones, and exactly zero collisions with drones!

http://www.popsci.com/airplanes-hit-more-turtles-than-drones

Phil

The Group W bench gets bigger and bigger. I received a ticket for operation a motor vehicle without a registration. (A 17 ft fabric covered kayak with a weed wacker motor on it. Now I can't throw something up in the air without registering it. On the other hand I hope it helps cut down on the terrible loss of life from all those drones flying around without numbers.

I hope no one turns me in for running my O&R powered generator.

Signed
Notmyrightname