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The OK Cub .060/.059

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The OK Cub .060/.059

Post  GWILLIEFOX on Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:12 am

Since the Cub .06 came up, I thought I would post this tome. Herkimer was the original engine supplier to Comet. The Comet RTFs used beam mount Cub .049Bs, .074s in a few cases like the Hornet and Lebond cars, and later the tank mount .049A. Interestingly, the Cub 049A used the same mount pattern as the Cox Babe Bee (that used the same bolt pattern as the Space Bug). And when the Comet-Fox came out, it had the same tank bolt pattern as the .049A!


The Cubs weren't really powerful enough, so Comet went to the Comet-Fox .07. The Fox was designed with beam mounts so it could be used in either tank mount or beam mount applications. Comet used both styles.

For whatever reason, Fox fell out of favor and Herkimer again supplied engines to Comet, this time the reed valve .060. This engine, with its increased displacement and glow head, might have been the best small Cub ever made according to John Krickel.
The glow head as we all know now is THE way to gain power ( or the Nelson setup). When OK was going out of the engine business, they sold off many .060s as .059s, but they were the same engine.

The Cub .049s had a 0.420" x .360" bore and stroke, the .060 .420" x .415". Herkimer modified the .049B case to add a flange for tank mounting. The B case and the A case were also modified to have higher (longer) cylinder mounts to accommodate the longer stroke, had the front intake location cast shut, and had a new rear cover design with the built-in reed valve.





The cylinder was also made longer and the exhaust ports made wider. A longer connecting rod was needed; a rather chintzy socket crimp was used. The case had a milled relief to clear the rod and a blued steel washer was placed over the crankpin to keep the rod from rubbing the front of the reed valve mount.





These engines can be found in a great variety of combinations. Plain unmodified nose, nose modified for uninstalled starter, various starters installed, with and without beam mounts, with all tank lugs left on for tank mounting (Tri-Pacer, Regulus), some or all tank lungs clipped off for beam mounting (Horner, P51, Warhawk).



Hope this is interesting to you Cox folks. At least you can claim the tank mount!

Thanks to John Krickel wherever he may be for his .049 newsletter. And to Dave Evans for helping me complete my Cub collection!
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Re: The OK Cub .060/.059

Post  Mark Boesen on Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:22 am

Thanks for posting, love it!
The early head fits the pre '56 Cox cyl and later Herkimer glowhead fits the later Cox.
Lol, there's claims Bill Atwood did the design work for the reedie .060, freelancing while he working for Cox on Tee Dees.


Last edited by Mark Boesen on Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The OK Cub .060/.059

Post  Mark Boesen on Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:24 am

Thanks for posting, love it!

John was hanging out in Atlanta area, had a nice visit with him several years ago.
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Re: The OK Cub .060/.059

Post  roddie on Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:16 pm

GWILLIEFOX wrote:

For whatever reason, Fox fell out of favor and Herkimer again supplied engines to Comet, this time the reed valve .060.  This engine, with its increased displacement and glow head, might have been the best small Cub ever made according to John Krickel.
The glow head as we all know now is THE way to gain power ( or the Nelson setup).  When OK was going out of the engine business, they sold off many .060s as .059s, but they were the same engine.

The Cub .049s had a 0.420" x .360" bore and stroke,  the .060 .420" x .415".  Herkimer modified the .049B case to add a flange for tank mounting.  The B case and the A case were also modified to have higher (longer) cylinder mounts to accommodate the longer stroke, had the front intake location cast shut, and had a new rear cover design with the built-in reed valve.


These engines can be found in a great variety of combinations.  Plain unmodified nose, nose modified for uninstalled starter, various starters installed, with and without beam mounts, with all tank lugs left on for tank mounting (Tri-Pacer, Regulus), some or all tank lungs clipped off for beam mounting (Horner, P51, Warhawk).



Hope this is interesting to you Cox folks.  At least you can claim the tank mount!

Thanks to John Krickel wherever he may be for his .049 newsletter.  And to Dave Evans for helping me complete my Cub collection!

I believe I have the same engine/tank as in your photo; top left.. except mine has a prop-driver. It was given to me last Summer in a boxful of assorted parts-engines from a fella down the road from me. Ken Cook actually spotted it when I originally posted getting the box of engines.

See the photos below..






It's got some dings and is missing one tank-screw.. but has excellent compression. I shouldn't assume that all is complete inside the tank.. because I haven't had it apart.
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OK Cub .060 maintenance

Post  roddie on Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:09 pm

I thought I'd give my OK Cub engine(s) some love today. The .060 (reed-valve) and .049A (frt. rotary-valve) both had some tank-issues as received.

The .060 was missing one out of three screws. The screws are 2-56 round-head machine screws that are approx. 11/16" long. I had several 3/4" long screws.. and decided to swap them all out.





As you can see in the last photo; the screws are 1/16" longer.. and stick-out a bit. I'm not concerned about that. My concerns are the reed-holder/rear-cover (looks like a back-plate) and needle-valve.. which are locked-up. I can probably heat-up the case to help remove the rear-cover.. but the tank (being plastic) worries me. I put some penetrating-oil on the needle-threads.. and will just let it sit and soak.. but don't know what else to try. I assume that there's a metal spray-bar pressed-in.. but maybe there isn't?

The .049A's tank had four Cox-type 2-56 fillister-head screws from a 8cc tank, that were threaded "part-way" in. They are MUCH too long. The 12 o'clock screw-position is in-line with the base of the engine-cylinder. That screw must be the correct length.. so I used one of the three; removed from the .060 engine (same 11/16" length..) to install in that location. I used the 3/4" length screws in the other three locations.






Again; the last photo shows the screws being 1/16" longer than original.

NOTE: Both of these engines use 5-40 prop-screws, as the Cox .049/.051 engines do.

I don't need to run them anytime soon.. but figured I should do a little work to them.. seeing that I had screws that would fit. Both engines turn-over with decent compression.
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Re: The OK Cub .060/.059

Post  Oldenginerod on Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:29 pm

Roddie. I have found the brass insert which the needle valve screws into can be fairly easily prised out from the plastic tank. You can probably firmly grip the needle in a vise and carefully pull on the tank. If you do, just ensure that your re-insert it with the hole in the side of the tube aligned with the hole in the tank.

As for the .049A tank screws, you do need to be careful with the upper screw as it can press against the base of the cylinder and distort it causing a tight spot as the engine is turned over. It needs to be exactly the correct length. I've even had original correct screws do it due to the tank being compressed by overtightening.
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Re: The OK Cub .060/.059

Post  NEW222 on Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:46 pm

Nice little Cubbies there. I kinda like the look of the clear/white fuel tanks. Would be nice for a quick reference to how much fuel is in it.
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Re: The OK Cub .060/.059

Post  roddie on Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:42 pm

Oldenginerod wrote:Roddie.  I have found the brass insert which the needle valve screws into can be fairly easily prised out from the plastic tank.  You can probably firmly grip the needle in a vise and carefully pull on the tank.  If you do, just ensure that your re-insert it with the hole in the side of the tube aligned with the hole in the tank.

As for the .049A tank screws, you do need to be careful with the upper screw as it can press against the base of the cylinder and distort it causing a tight spot as the engine is turned over.  It needs to be exactly the correct length.  I've even had original correct screws do it due to the tank being compressed by overtightening.

Thanks for those tips Rod. Lots of good info and photos here by Bill M. too.

Regarding the needle; I chose to grab-onto the knob with my small locking-pliers, and loosen it.



It's been cleaned and reinstalled with light-oil. I removed the black Neoprene fuel pick-up line to find it surprisingly flexible.

I managed to remove the back-plate/reed-holder, by putting a small rectangular piece of .060" aluminum in a bench-vise, with just a slight "lip" sticking-up above the jaws.. enough to engage the slots. I applied downward pressure on the engine while turning it, which freed it up.





The reed looks "creased" (no good) to me.
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Re: The OK Cub .060/.059

Post  ticomareado on Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:10 pm

One of most informative Cub treads to come down the pike. Thanks guys. Nothing for me to contribute except:

"For whatever reason, Fox fell out of favor and Herkimer again supplied engines to Comet, this time the reed valve .060. "

The 'whatever reason' was that Comet Models wasn't paying its invoices from Fox. It would be interesting to know if Comet stuck Herkimer on the .060s.
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Re: The OK Cub .060/.059

Post  GWILLIEFOX on Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:36 am

ticomareado wrote:One of most informative Cub treads to come down the pike. Thanks guys. Nothing for me to contribute except:

"For whatever reason, Fox fell out of favor and Herkimer again supplied engines to Comet, this time the reed valve .060. "

The 'whatever reason' was that Comet Models wasn't paying its invoices from Fox. It would be interesting to know if Comet stuck Herkimer on the .060s.  
Boy Tim, I've asked around for years about the Fox-Comet situation. Nice to know the reason. Frank Anderson (Andersons Bluebook) told me Duke made a raid on Comet to retrieve. 07 engines and parts. These engines became the Fox "Compact Stunt Motor". Mark published the .07 story. Ted Brebeck said Comet defaulted on Herkimer and returned thousands of 049 and 06/059 engines. Ted resold many of these ( the boue spinner Regulus engine quite common) and built many new Engines from parts.

Any more Comet info to share?
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Re: The OK Cub .060/.059

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