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Cox Engine of The Month
February-2024
1/2A Nut's

"RC Speed Boat Power Drive TD .020"

More info on this engine!




PAST WINNERS
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TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 Empty Re: TD 09 Ducted Fan

Post  aungmyatoo Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:51 pm

OVERLORD wrote:
aungmyatoo wrote:Just realise that my kit missing engine mount.
can tell me what are the dimensions of the mount?

Thanks for posting the pages of the manual. I read you ordered an enine mount but below the measurements of the one that came with the kit:

outside diameter: 35,2 mm
Inside diameter: 20 mm
space between bearers: 24,8 mm

The small acrylic tube in the middle of your photo. Any idea what that is for, that also missing in mine. If really necessary I have to search that tube size as well. thank you

TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 Untitl11
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Post  Mark Diedrichs Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:08 pm

Love this unique stuff!!! Just goes to show Y'all  that most any concept can work. Hence, in reverse, sows ear = silk purse!!! Mark This Site Rocks! Clapping
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Post  OVERLORD Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:14 pm

aungmyatoo wrote:The small acrylic tube in the middle of your photo. Any idea what that is for, that also missing in mine. If really necessary I have to search that tube size as well. thank you

TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 Untitl11

After some studying, I found out!!
This polycarbonate tube has the diameter of the "spider" that sits on the tank end and is 35 mm or 1 3/8" long. It fits over the engine mount and is used when mounting a .15 engine. The tube has to be cut to shape and fits around the engine mount with a part that goes below the engine. This can be seen in figure 3. The explanation is in the last paragraphe of the previous page above figure 1.
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Post  1/2A Nut Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:23 am

There was the Kamdax system for the Norvel .061 used a 80 mm rotor.
The guy that started it up was a aerospace engineer for NASA designed
the setup then had the fan parts made in China.


Engine peak hit 19.8k rpm / Appears they tried to hit the peak torque
for best possible thrust with reasonable speed. User had a muffler of
some sort the system was made for open exhaust based on the stock
photos I have seen. Appears to have at least 5" pitch possible 6.



TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 Kamdax10

TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 Kamdax11
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Post  emanuel Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:37 am

I bought this kit about 25 years ago in a model shop here in Germany.
At that time I wanted to build a Horten IX and was looking for a second kit. But I never saw one again and today I would do the project electrically.
At the moment I have no idea what to do with it. I know what 1/2A Nut would do with it  Very Happy , but .09 TD / Conquest .15 is not my class.
I hope the question is not dubious here in the forum, I think I paid around 80 bugs back then. How would the value be today?

TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 Img_2012
TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 Img_2014
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Post  Roland Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:57 am

Hello Emanuel,

I have a RK720, the next larger Version of the RK709. I did know Bob Kress personally. He invented the ducted Fan with a model engine in the late 70's. When I remember correct, he hold the patent for it. He worked for Grumman Aerospace and was responsible for the variable sweep wing in the F14. In the early 90's, his ducted Fans where superior in thrust, but, a pain for the average modeller to build. He designed a range of very interesting model aircraft with unique features. EG a P-39, engine in the middle and two belt-drives to the outer Propeller. I also have a F15 designed by him, this could be flown either with a Cox 09 in the front, or, with a RK709. Amazingly, as the F-15 was a rival design to the F-14. I build it with the RK-720 and a K&B .21 It had a thrust to weight ratio of about 1,5 to 1, which was sensational at this time. I think, the RK-709 is a collectors item. Too complicated to build and meanwhile there are many many electric fans around.

regards,

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Post  emanuel Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:06 pm

Thank's for the background info.
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Post  OVERLORD Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:59 am

When I got my ducted fan, it came as parts in a box without the polystyreen. I'd like to know the shape of the curved hole that houses the turbine.

TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 Box_110

According to Kress' articles in RCM issues of 1977, this profile should be ideal for the air inlet when constructing the ducted fan nacelle. Can someone draw the curved line on a piece of paper and make a scan?

Thanks.
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Post  emanuel Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:19 am

Hope you mean thouse holes...
TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 20210110
TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 20210112
TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 20210111
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Post  emanuel Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:21 am

TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 20210114
TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 20210115
TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 20210113
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Post  emanuel Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:23 am

TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 20210116
TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 20210118
TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 20210117
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Post  emanuel Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:25 am

TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 20210120
TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 20210119

Haven't got a scanner
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Post  OVERLORD Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:41 am

Emanuel,

Thanks for the effort but it's in fact the curved or rounded shape of the polystyreen insert - the white bit - that I'm after

TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 Box_111
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Post  emanuel Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:55 am

TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 20210121
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Post  OVERLORD Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:42 pm

Thanks Emanuel, That's what I needed. I assume that are 5mm squares.

In the mean time I searched for the ducted fan articles by Kress on RC Library:

Part 1......RMC 10/1977 https://rclibrary.co.uk/title_details.asp?ID=2216
Part 2......RMC 11/1977 https://rclibrary.co.uk/title_details.asp?ID=2223
Part 3......RCM 4/1978 https://rclibrary.co.uk/title_details.asp?ID=2331
Part 4......RCM 5/1978 https://rclibrary.co.uk/title_details.asp?ID=2337
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Post  emanuel Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:31 pm

I also had hydro-dynamics when I was studying.
So I know that the curve would have to be turned by 90 degrees, the slight curvature of the curve must be inside the pipe so that the air detachment is smaller. Here is my engineering table book with examples, unfortunately in German.
TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 20210122
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Post  OVERLORD Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:01 pm

I started the build of my ducted fan. I hope to bring this to a good end because I have the impression that many difficulties will arise during construction.

According to the instructions, the first thing to do is to assemble the fuel tank. 2 fuel nipples need to be opened with a 1,5mm drill. They're the connections to the fill and vent tubes. In the big central hole comes a plastic and rubber plug with a 2" suction line and clunk weight. The plug has a washer and nut that compresses and expands the rubber inside the tank hole to make the assembly fuel tight.

First, I was puzzled reading the instructions but soon found out they had to be read from right to left.

TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 Instru10

TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 P1040113

TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 P1040110

TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 P1040112
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Post  OVERLORD Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:15 am

emanuel wrote:
TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 20210122

I didn't know - and it's something that Kress doesn't mention- that putting a pylon in the middle of the intake reduces significantly the losses. I suppose that is what can be seen in the air intake of a MIG15.

TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 Mig15_10

That plane is after all a Focke-Wulf Huckebein. Give to Cesar what belongs to Cesar!
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Post  OVERLORD Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:31 am

After assembly, the silicon tube for the clunk weight was too stiff. In the instructions, Kress suggests to use Aerotrend #1001. This happens to be the standard 049 silicon tube. I replaced the tube and now the clunk works perfectly.


TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 P1050112

The rubber seal of the tank plug needs a little soap for lubrication before mounting. I then fixed the 3 silicon tubes. The upper tube is for venting. the middle one is the feed to the engine and the bottom one is for filling the tank.

At this stage I have a nice plastic squid!

TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 P1050113

TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 P1060111
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Post  OVERLORD Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:54 am

The vent tube is smaller than the filler tube and this has a reason. Both tubes pass trough a wing profile shaped tube and te passage is very narrow.

TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 P1070111

The kit I have is not made for receiving a TeeDee 09. The back of the fan is countersunk for making it possible to mount a longer engine. The fans for a 09 are just flat. The  engine mount is for an Enya 11 CX. I haven't got a TeeDee 09 or an Enya 11 CX but what I have is a Conquest. For this engine, the engine bearers need to be bevelled a bit on the inside to give room for the crankcase.


TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 P1080110


TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 P1070110
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Post  getback Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:25 am

Are you going to put this in a Mig 15 or something else ? The Conquest .15 should get the job done , I don't have or ever ran one But have seen then fly/run ! Fireworks
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Post  OVERLORD Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:39 pm

getback wrote:Are you going to put this in a Mig 15 or something else ? The Conquest .15 should get the job done , I  don't have or ever ran one But have seen then fly/run  ! Fireworks

I don't know what model to pt that in yet; early jet plane, airboat, Super Cyclops?? and I still have to test run that Conquest!
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Post  emanuel Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:03 pm

Wow, adding a Conquest. This will rock.
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Post  Surfer_kris Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:13 pm

Yes, a Conquest engine should really wind that thing up compared to a TD .09 engine. Shocked

Just be careful, the early conrods (cast ones) on the Conquest engines are fragile and cannot take too high rpms.
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Post  OVERLORD Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:46 pm

Today, I made what Kress calls the clear plastic centerbody. It's a piece of polycarbonate tube that has to be cut to size and that goes around the motor mount and extends below the engine. One could call it a sump guard.

TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 Instru12

TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 Instru11

TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 Imgp6310

The inside diameter of the tube is just too small to slide over the round part of the motor mount. Parts were cut out with a Dremel and adjusted with a file. the centerbody needs to be screwed onto the motor mount with  4 #2x 3/8 PHSMS !?  That means  pan head sheet metal screws. It takes some time to translate these numbered screws and drills.  lol!  Eyebrows  Huh...

TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 Imgp6311

TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 Imgp6312


Screws:

TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 Number10


Drills

TD 09 Ducted Fan - Page 2 Number11
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