Cox Engines Forum
You are not logged in! Please login or register.

Logged in members see NO ADVERTISEMENTS!


What is your fix for broken off needles? Cox_ba12




What is your fix for broken off needles? Pixel

Log in

I forgot my password

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Latest topics
» Enya .09 II Questions
by Surfer_kris Today at 2:45 pm

» Wen Mac .049 - Conditioning.
by MauricioB Today at 12:21 pm

» Happy 53rd birthday Mauricio!!!
by MauricioB Today at 11:47 am

» Jim Walker Firebaby
by rdw777 Today at 11:22 am

» Testers Sprite engine swap
by Greenman38633 Today at 10:57 am

» music vids.. some of your favorites
by HalfaDave Today at 10:10 am

» UV Restore of Yellowed Decals
by Levent Suberk Today at 8:59 am

» 22mm 2-blade nylon marine prop and solid-shaft drive
by roddie Today at 6:46 am

» A prototype Cox Reed-valve marine engine
by roddie Today at 6:43 am

» Post edit??
by roddie Today at 5:33 am

» Original Super Power fuel formula?
by HalfaDave Yesterday at 7:28 pm

» Cox Pinto question
by Bill steklenski Yesterday at 10:33 am

Cox Engine of The Month
April-2024
OVERLORD's

"Kress ducted fan with new Cox Conquest 15 RC"



PAST WINNERS
CEF Traveling Engine

Win This Engine!
Gallery


What is your fix for broken off needles? Empty
Live on Patrol


What is your fix for broken off needles?

Go down

What is your fix for broken off needles? Empty What is your fix for broken off needles?

Post  rsv1cox Sat Dec 16, 2023 7:39 pm

I have zero luck when they are broken off close like this. I have at least three this way. Heat/driving out the assembly and replacing is the best option, but finding NVA's for these Wen/Atwoods is nearly impossible.

What is your fix for broken off needles? Blue_a10

In the past I have tried a dremel with a cut-off disk but too clumsly and too wide a cut. A brass cutting razor saw and a small jewelers screwdriver is not much better and the result is usually the same.

I'm just hoping there is a mystery cure out there that I am not aware of. Anything short of a Fox hurl!!!
rsv1cox
rsv1cox
Top Poster
Top Poster

2022 Supporter

2023 Supporter

2024 Supporter

Posts : 10518
Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : West Virginia

Back to top Go down

What is your fix for broken off needles? Empty Re: What is your fix for broken off needles?

Post  Oldenginerod Sat Dec 16, 2023 8:14 pm

rsv1cox wrote:I have zero luck when they are broken off close like this.  I have at least three this way.  Heat/driving out the assembly and replacing is the best option, but finding NVA's for these Wen/Atwoods is nearly impossible.  

What is your fix for broken off needles? Blue_a10

In the past I have tried a dremel with a cut-off disk but too clumsly and too wide a cut.  A brass cutting razor saw and a small jewelers screwdriver is not much better and the result is usually the same.

I'm just hoping there is a mystery cure out there that I am not aware of.  Anything short of a Fox hurl!!!

I know some don't like using them, but MECOA has both the spray bar and needle/spring currently available, meaning no need to remove the broken piece.
https://www.mecoa.biz/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=117
Oldenginerod
Oldenginerod
Top Poster
Top Poster

Posts : 3968
Join date : 2012-06-15
Age : 61
Location : Drouin, Victoria

Back to top Go down

What is your fix for broken off needles? Empty Re: What is your fix for broken off needles?

Post  rsv1cox Sat Dec 16, 2023 8:19 pm

Wow, thanks Rod. I should have thought about MECOA, I do business with them. I wish they had a picture of that Atwood case. I will be calling them Monday. I'll spend the money I saved by not winning that Cox Pitts. Smile

Bob
rsv1cox
rsv1cox
Top Poster
Top Poster

2022 Supporter

2023 Supporter

2024 Supporter

Posts : 10518
Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : West Virginia

Back to top Go down

What is your fix for broken off needles? Empty Re: What is your fix for broken off needles?

Post  944_Jim Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:08 pm

I'm just curious. Which is bigger, the Atwood or Cox spraybar? Maybe the Cox is bigger, so modify the engine to suit. Consider it may require drilling out the venturi ID as well as the spraybar cross-bore IF the Cox spraybar is bigger. The increased ID ought to make up for the larger more obstructive spraybar (if it actually is).

Now if the tip is jammed in with no threads remaining, then maybe a broken or squared-off drill bit might go from the fuel tube end and tap the tip out. I have had a Cox needle broken off/jammed in and removed it this way.

Otherwise, back to replacement.

_________________
Never enough time to build them all...always enough time to smash them all!
944_Jim
944_Jim
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

2022 Supporter

2023 Supporter

2024 Supporter

Posts : 1949
Join date : 2017-02-08
Age : 59
Location : NE MS

Back to top Go down

What is your fix for broken off needles? Empty Re: What is your fix for broken off needles?

Post  rsv1cox Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:17 pm

944_Jim wrote:I'm just curious. Which is bigger, the Atwood or Cox spraybar? Maybe the Cox is bigger, so modify the engine to suit. Consider it may require drilling out the venturi ID as well as the spraybar cross-bore IF the Cox spraybar is bigger. The increased ID ought to make up for the larger more obstructive spraybar (if it actually is).

Now if the tip is jammed in with no threads remaining, then maybe a broken or squared-off drill bit might go from the fuel tube end and tap the tip out. I have had a Cox needle broken off/jammed in and removed it this way.

Otherwise, back to replacement.

I'm taking the easy way out Jim and ordering replacements from MECOA.

NEEDLE VALVE W/SPRING, ATWOOD.049
85-AS01
Qty : 3
Price : $10.65

Back Cover Gasket, ATWOOD .049 .051
29-AS21
Qty : 3
Price : $2.60

SPRAYBAR, Atwood .049/.051
84-AS01
Qty : 3
Price : $6.25

HEAD ADAPTOR, ATWOOD .049
11-AS02
Qty : 1
Price : $4.99

COX .049 SPACE HOPPER HEX SPINNER NUT
968-006
Qty : 2
Price : $5.99


I think I will experiment Cox/Atwood/W/M with some junk engines. Curiosity you know.
rsv1cox
rsv1cox
Top Poster
Top Poster

2022 Supporter

2023 Supporter

2024 Supporter

Posts : 10518
Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : West Virginia

Back to top Go down

What is your fix for broken off needles? Empty Re: What is your fix for broken off needles?

Post  aspeed Mon Dec 18, 2023 1:47 pm

Maybe too late if you ordered the stuff, but if you can remove the needle even a few turns, it is possible to use a remote needle.  I do that quite often, remove the needle and plug the hole with solder or a plastic toothpick.  It may not be the cheaper way unless you make your own needle valve.  A regular needle valve and housing can be a remote with just simply soldering on a piece of 1/16" or 3/32" tubing over the hole being sure not to plug it.What is your fix for broken off needles? Kk_nee12
aspeed
aspeed
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Posts : 787
Join date : 2013-01-18
Location : Leamington Ont. Can.

Back to top Go down

What is your fix for broken off needles? Empty Re: What is your fix for broken off needles?

Post  rsv1cox Mon Dec 18, 2023 3:32 pm

Thanks, My problem is cutting a slot in what is left of the broken needle (picture above) embedded in the NVA's tube. I can then heat and using a small jewelers screwdriver back out the broken section. Or, so I hope. I'm still going to give it a try despite failed previous attempts.
rsv1cox
rsv1cox
Top Poster
Top Poster

2022 Supporter

2023 Supporter

2024 Supporter

Posts : 10518
Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : West Virginia

Back to top Go down

What is your fix for broken off needles? Empty Re: What is your fix for broken off needles?

Post  Yabby Tue Dec 19, 2023 5:07 am

get a sharp sewing / darning needle and use it to turn the broken engine needle by taping it around a little bit at a time till you get enough turned out to unscrew it.
Yabby
Yabby
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

2022 Supporter

2023 Supporter

Posts : 702
Join date : 2021-06-08
Location : Yorke Peninsula South Australia

Back to top Go down

What is your fix for broken off needles? Empty Re: What is your fix for broken off needles?

Post  aspeed Tue Dec 19, 2023 9:40 am

I suppose the proper way would be to make a sleeve that goes around the housing to centre the drill, and then use a small left hand drill bit to remove the broken needle. It often just unscrews on it's own that way. Otherwise, an EZ out may unscrew it if it is jammed in. Really a new needle valve is cheaper and easier unless you have a lathe and drill press/mill.
aspeed
aspeed
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Posts : 787
Join date : 2013-01-18
Location : Leamington Ont. Can.

Back to top Go down

What is your fix for broken off needles? Empty Re: What is your fix for broken off needles?

Post  rsv1cox Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:13 pm

make a sleeve that goes around the housing to centre the drill, and then use a small left hand drill bi

Do they make ez-outs that small?

I can use that idea. Thanks -

Bob
rsv1cox
rsv1cox
Top Poster
Top Poster

2022 Supporter

2023 Supporter

2024 Supporter

Posts : 10518
Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : West Virginia

Back to top Go down

What is your fix for broken off needles? Empty Re: What is your fix for broken off needles?

Post  aspeed Tue Dec 19, 2023 9:14 pm

At work I used to make them for smaller threads like 4-40s. Just used a broken tap and grind a triangular point to jam into the stub. They are not that small in the sets. Maybe down to 1/16". The left hand drill will often unscrew them unless they are jammed in.
aspeed
aspeed
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Posts : 787
Join date : 2013-01-18
Location : Leamington Ont. Can.

Back to top Go down

What is your fix for broken off needles? Empty Re: What is your fix for broken off needles?

Post  rsv1cox Wed Dec 20, 2023 7:00 am

I have a large selection of tubing, one size has to fit around the NVA forming a guide to hit dead center. I have been using a small center punch after filing the bitter end flat. Doesn't work. My old B&D electric should help as it is speed adjustable and also reverses.

Bob
rsv1cox
rsv1cox
Top Poster
Top Poster

2022 Supporter

2023 Supporter

2024 Supporter

Posts : 10518
Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : West Virginia

Back to top Go down

What is your fix for broken off needles? Empty Re: What is your fix for broken off needles?

Post  aspeed Wed Dec 20, 2023 11:16 am

It is a simple operation, but I am not even sure where to buy a left hand drill bit. We ordered them at work for a few sizes that we seemed to need. If the assembly is removed, it might be able to be held in a lathe and centre drilled/spot drilled. The tubing used to centre is a good method, even just to locate a centre spot, and then use a drill press if that is all you have for an ez out. A regular drill bit will tighten up the needle into the seat if too much pressure is used, and then it is worse off than before.
aspeed
aspeed
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Posts : 787
Join date : 2013-01-18
Location : Leamington Ont. Can.

Back to top Go down

What is your fix for broken off needles? Empty Re: What is your fix for broken off needles?

Post  GallopingGhostler Wed Dec 20, 2023 12:45 pm

I think this is one of those as-case basis jobs. What works one time doesn't always work in another. A modification to Yabbi's method is use the edge of a fine file to cut a slot in the brass broken off needle shaft.

This gives a place for a sharpened pin punch, nail, flat screw driver tip, etc., to get a grip on the outer edge. Gently tap in a counterclockwise direction. If it starts to move, keep working it. It will eventually expose enough shaft to use pliers to further twist it out and remove it.

If all else fails, then gently push out the spraybar and Epoxy another in its place. That may be easier said than done.

But, if you can work out the broken needle shaft, then you've salvaged the situation in a most satisfying way.

Personally if I could not restore it to OEM but salvaged it into a runner with say, a Cox Sure Start spraybar, then I'd have a new success story to share with photos.

It would be reminiscient of that nasty song we sung in Basic Training during road marches, about a yellow bird and its trophy bill, to remind me of my greatest kill. Doh! Laughing
avatar
GallopingGhostler
Top Poster
Top Poster

2023 Supporter

Posts : 5278
Join date : 2013-07-13

Back to top Go down

What is your fix for broken off needles? Empty Re: What is your fix for broken off needles?

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum