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Cox Engine of The Month
August-2024
balogh's
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"Cox TD09 R/C Beast of Burden featuring Kamtechnik head and DIY metallic fuel nipple"
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PAST WINNERS
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"Cox TD09 R/C Beast of Burden featuring Kamtechnik head and DIY metallic fuel nipple"
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PAST WINNERS
What is your fix for broken off needles?
Page 1 of 1
What is your fix for broken off needles?
I have zero luck when they are broken off close like this. I have at least three this way. Heat/driving out the assembly and replacing is the best option, but finding NVA's for these Wen/Atwoods is nearly impossible.
![What is your fix for broken off needles? Blue_a10](https://i.servimg.com/u/f43/19/15/28/33/blue_a10.jpg)
In the past I have tried a dremel with a cut-off disk but too clumsly and too wide a cut. A brass cutting razor saw and a small jewelers screwdriver is not much better and the result is usually the same.
I'm just hoping there is a mystery cure out there that I am not aware of. Anything short of a Fox hurl!!!
![What is your fix for broken off needles? Blue_a10](https://i.servimg.com/u/f43/19/15/28/33/blue_a10.jpg)
In the past I have tried a dremel with a cut-off disk but too clumsly and too wide a cut. A brass cutting razor saw and a small jewelers screwdriver is not much better and the result is usually the same.
I'm just hoping there is a mystery cure out there that I am not aware of. Anything short of a Fox hurl!!!
rsv1cox- Top Poster
Posts : 10928
Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : West Virginia
Re: What is your fix for broken off needles?
rsv1cox wrote:I have zero luck when they are broken off close like this. I have at least three this way. Heat/driving out the assembly and replacing is the best option, but finding NVA's for these Wen/Atwoods is nearly impossible.
In the past I have tried a dremel with a cut-off disk but too clumsly and too wide a cut. A brass cutting razor saw and a small jewelers screwdriver is not much better and the result is usually the same.
I'm just hoping there is a mystery cure out there that I am not aware of. Anything short of a Fox hurl!!!
I know some don't like using them, but MECOA has both the spray bar and needle/spring currently available, meaning no need to remove the broken piece.
https://www.mecoa.biz/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=117
Oldenginerod- Top Poster
- Posts : 4000
Join date : 2012-06-15
Age : 61
Location : Drouin, Victoria
Re: What is your fix for broken off needles?
Wow, thanks Rod. I should have thought about MECOA, I do business with them. I wish they had a picture of that Atwood case. I will be calling them Monday. I'll spend the money I saved by not winning that Cox Pitts. ![Smile](https://2img.net/i/fa/i/smiles/icon_smile.gif)
Bob
![Smile](https://2img.net/i/fa/i/smiles/icon_smile.gif)
Bob
rsv1cox- Top Poster
Posts : 10928
Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : West Virginia
Re: What is your fix for broken off needles?
I'm just curious. Which is bigger, the Atwood or Cox spraybar? Maybe the Cox is bigger, so modify the engine to suit. Consider it may require drilling out the venturi ID as well as the spraybar cross-bore IF the Cox spraybar is bigger. The increased ID ought to make up for the larger more obstructive spraybar (if it actually is).
Now if the tip is jammed in with no threads remaining, then maybe a broken or squared-off drill bit might go from the fuel tube end and tap the tip out. I have had a Cox needle broken off/jammed in and removed it this way.
Otherwise, back to replacement.
Now if the tip is jammed in with no threads remaining, then maybe a broken or squared-off drill bit might go from the fuel tube end and tap the tip out. I have had a Cox needle broken off/jammed in and removed it this way.
Otherwise, back to replacement.
_________________
Never enough time to build them all...always enough time to smash them all!
944_Jim- Diamond Member
Posts : 2014
Join date : 2017-02-08
Age : 59
Location : NE MS
Re: What is your fix for broken off needles?
944_Jim wrote:I'm just curious. Which is bigger, the Atwood or Cox spraybar? Maybe the Cox is bigger, so modify the engine to suit. Consider it may require drilling out the venturi ID as well as the spraybar cross-bore IF the Cox spraybar is bigger. The increased ID ought to make up for the larger more obstructive spraybar (if it actually is).
Now if the tip is jammed in with no threads remaining, then maybe a broken or squared-off drill bit might go from the fuel tube end and tap the tip out. I have had a Cox needle broken off/jammed in and removed it this way.
Otherwise, back to replacement.
I'm taking the easy way out Jim and ordering replacements from MECOA.
NEEDLE VALVE W/SPRING, ATWOOD.049
85-AS01
Qty : 3
Price : $10.65
Back Cover Gasket, ATWOOD .049 .051
29-AS21
Qty : 3
Price : $2.60
SPRAYBAR, Atwood .049/.051
84-AS01
Qty : 3
Price : $6.25
HEAD ADAPTOR, ATWOOD .049
11-AS02
Qty : 1
Price : $4.99
COX .049 SPACE HOPPER HEX SPINNER NUT
968-006
Qty : 2
Price : $5.99
I think I will experiment Cox/Atwood/W/M with some junk engines. Curiosity you know.
rsv1cox- Top Poster
Posts : 10928
Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : West Virginia
Re: What is your fix for broken off needles?
Maybe too late if you ordered the stuff, but if you can remove the needle even a few turns, it is possible to use a remote needle. I do that quite often, remove the needle and plug the hole with solder or a plastic toothpick. It may not be the cheaper way unless you make your own needle valve. A regular needle valve and housing can be a remote with just simply soldering on a piece of 1/16" or 3/32" tubing over the hole being sure not to plug it.![What is your fix for broken off needles? Kk_nee12](https://i.servimg.com/u/f44/20/04/01/64/kk_nee12.jpg)
![What is your fix for broken off needles? Kk_nee12](https://i.servimg.com/u/f44/20/04/01/64/kk_nee12.jpg)
aspeed- Platinum Member
- Posts : 790
Join date : 2013-01-18
Location : Leamington Ont. Can.
Re: What is your fix for broken off needles?
Thanks, My problem is cutting a slot in what is left of the broken needle (picture above) embedded in the NVA's tube. I can then heat and using a small jewelers screwdriver back out the broken section. Or, so I hope. I'm still going to give it a try despite failed previous attempts.
rsv1cox- Top Poster
Posts : 10928
Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : West Virginia
Re: What is your fix for broken off needles?
get a sharp sewing / darning needle and use it to turn the broken engine needle by taping it around a little bit at a time till you get enough turned out to unscrew it.
Yabby- Platinum Member
Posts : 711
Join date : 2021-06-08
Location : Yorke Peninsula South Australia
Re: What is your fix for broken off needles?
I suppose the proper way would be to make a sleeve that goes around the housing to centre the drill, and then use a small left hand drill bit to remove the broken needle. It often just unscrews on it's own that way. Otherwise, an EZ out may unscrew it if it is jammed in. Really a new needle valve is cheaper and easier unless you have a lathe and drill press/mill.
aspeed- Platinum Member
- Posts : 790
Join date : 2013-01-18
Location : Leamington Ont. Can.
Re: What is your fix for broken off needles?
make a sleeve that goes around the housing to centre the drill, and then use a small left hand drill bi
Do they make ez-outs that small?
I can use that idea. Thanks -
Bob
Do they make ez-outs that small?
I can use that idea. Thanks -
Bob
rsv1cox- Top Poster
Posts : 10928
Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : West Virginia
Re: What is your fix for broken off needles?
At work I used to make them for smaller threads like 4-40s. Just used a broken tap and grind a triangular point to jam into the stub. They are not that small in the sets. Maybe down to 1/16". The left hand drill will often unscrew them unless they are jammed in.
aspeed- Platinum Member
- Posts : 790
Join date : 2013-01-18
Location : Leamington Ont. Can.
Re: What is your fix for broken off needles?
I have a large selection of tubing, one size has to fit around the NVA forming a guide to hit dead center. I have been using a small center punch after filing the bitter end flat. Doesn't work. My old B&D electric should help as it is speed adjustable and also reverses.
Bob
Bob
rsv1cox- Top Poster
Posts : 10928
Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : West Virginia
Re: What is your fix for broken off needles?
It is a simple operation, but I am not even sure where to buy a left hand drill bit. We ordered them at work for a few sizes that we seemed to need. If the assembly is removed, it might be able to be held in a lathe and centre drilled/spot drilled. The tubing used to centre is a good method, even just to locate a centre spot, and then use a drill press if that is all you have for an ez out. A regular drill bit will tighten up the needle into the seat if too much pressure is used, and then it is worse off than before.
aspeed- Platinum Member
- Posts : 790
Join date : 2013-01-18
Location : Leamington Ont. Can.
Re: What is your fix for broken off needles?
I think this is one of those as-case basis jobs. What works one time doesn't always work in another. A modification to Yabbi's method is use the edge of a fine file to cut a slot in the brass broken off needle shaft.
This gives a place for a sharpened pin punch, nail, flat screw driver tip, etc., to get a grip on the outer edge. Gently tap in a counterclockwise direction. If it starts to move, keep working it. It will eventually expose enough shaft to use pliers to further twist it out and remove it.
If all else fails, then gently push out the spraybar and Epoxy another in its place. That may be easier said than done.
But, if you can work out the broken needle shaft, then you've salvaged the situation in a most satisfying way.
Personally if I could not restore it to OEM but salvaged it into a runner with say, a Cox Sure Start spraybar, then I'd have a new success story to share with photos.
It would be reminiscient of that nasty song we sung in Basic Training during road marches, about a yellow bird and its trophy bill, to remind me of my greatest kill.
![Laughing](https://2img.net/i/fa/i/smiles/icon_lol.gif)
This gives a place for a sharpened pin punch, nail, flat screw driver tip, etc., to get a grip on the outer edge. Gently tap in a counterclockwise direction. If it starts to move, keep working it. It will eventually expose enough shaft to use pliers to further twist it out and remove it.
If all else fails, then gently push out the spraybar and Epoxy another in its place. That may be easier said than done.
But, if you can work out the broken needle shaft, then you've salvaged the situation in a most satisfying way.
Personally if I could not restore it to OEM but salvaged it into a runner with say, a Cox Sure Start spraybar, then I'd have a new success story to share with photos.
It would be reminiscient of that nasty song we sung in Basic Training during road marches, about a yellow bird and its trophy bill, to remind me of my greatest kill.
![Doh!](/users/3015/29/34/60/smiles/874384962.gif)
![Laughing](https://2img.net/i/fa/i/smiles/icon_lol.gif)
GallopingGhostler- Top Poster
Posts : 5513
Join date : 2013-07-13
Age : 70
Location : Clovis NM or NFL KC Chiefs
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