What is your fix for broken off needles?

Wow, thanks Rod. I should have thought about MECOA, I do business with them. I wish they had a picture of that Atwood case. I will be calling them Monday. I'll spend the money I saved by not winning that Cox Pitts.

Bob

I'm just curious. Which is bigger, the Atwood or Cox spraybar? Maybe the Cox is bigger, so modify the engine to suit. Consider it may require drilling out the venturi ID as well as the spraybar cross-bore IF the Cox spraybar is bigger. The increased ID ought to make up for the larger more obstructive spraybar (if it actually is).

Now if the tip is jammed in with no threads remaining, then maybe a broken or squared-off drill bit might go from the fuel tube end and tap the tip out. I have had a Cox needle broken off/jammed in and removed it this way.

Otherwise, back to replacement.

944_Jim wrote:I'm just curious. Which is bigger, the Atwood or Cox spraybar? Maybe the Cox is bigger, so modify the engine to suit. Consider it may require drilling out the venturi ID as well as the spraybar cross-bore IF the Cox spraybar is bigger. The increased ID ought to make up for the larger more obstructive spraybar (if it actually is).

Now if the tip is jammed in with no threads remaining, then maybe a broken or squared-off drill bit might go from the fuel tube end and tap the tip out. I have had a Cox needle broken off/jammed in and removed it this way.

Otherwise, back to replacement.

I'm taking the easy way out Jim and ordering replacements from MECOA.

NEEDLE VALVE W/SPRING, ATWOOD.049
85-AS01
Qty : 3
Price : $10.65

Back Cover Gasket, ATWOOD .049 .051
29-AS21
Qty : 3
Price : $2.60

SPRAYBAR, Atwood .049/.051
84-AS01
Qty : 3
Price : $6.25

HEAD ADAPTOR, ATWOOD .049
11-AS02
Qty : 1
Price : $4.99

COX .049 SPACE HOPPER HEX SPINNER NUT
968-006
Qty : 2
Price : $5.99

I think I will experiment Cox/Atwood/W/M with some junk engines. Curiosity you know.

Maybe too late if you ordered the stuff, but if you can remove the needle even a few turns, it is possible to use a remote needle.  I do that quite often, remove the needle and plug the hole with solder or a plastic toothpick.  It may not be the cheaper way unless you make your own needle valve.  A regular needle valve and housing can be a remote with just simply soldering on a piece of 1/16" or 3/32" tubing over the hole being sure not to plug it.

Thanks, My problem is cutting a slot in what is left of the broken needle (picture above) embedded in the NVA's tube. I can then heat and using a small jewelers screwdriver back out the broken section. Or, so I hope. I'm still going to give it a try despite failed previous attempts.

get a sharp sewing / darning needle and use it to turn the broken engine needle by taping it around a little bit at a time till you get enough turned out to unscrew it.

I suppose the proper way would be to make a sleeve that goes around the housing to centre the drill, and then use a small left hand drill bit to remove the broken needle. It often just unscrews on it's own that way. Otherwise, an EZ out may unscrew it if it is jammed in. Really a new needle valve is cheaper and easier unless you have a lathe and drill press/mill.

make a sleeve that goes around the housing to centre the drill, and then use a small left hand drill bi

Do they make ez-outs that small?

I can use that idea. Thanks -

Bob

At work I used to make them for smaller threads like 4-40s. Just used a broken tap and grind a triangular point to jam into the stub. They are not that small in the sets. Maybe down to 1/16". The left hand drill will often unscrew them unless they are jammed in.

I have a large selection of tubing, one size has to fit around the NVA forming a guide to hit dead center. I have been using a small center punch after filing the bitter end flat. Doesn't work. My old B&D electric should help as it is speed adjustable and also reverses.

Bob

It is a simple operation, but I am not even sure where to buy a left hand drill bit. We ordered them at work for a few sizes that we seemed to need. If the assembly is removed, it might be able to be held in a lathe and centre drilled/spot drilled. The tubing used to centre is a good method, even just to locate a centre spot, and then use a drill press if that is all you have for an ez out. A regular drill bit will tighten up the needle into the seat if too much pressure is used, and then it is worse off than before.

I think this is one of those as-case basis jobs. What works one time doesn't always work in another. A modification to Yabbi's method is use the edge of a fine file to cut a slot in the brass broken off needle shaft.

This gives a place for a sharpened pin punch, nail, flat screw driver tip, etc., to get a grip on the outer edge. Gently tap in a counterclockwise direction. If it starts to move, keep working it. It will eventually expose enough shaft to use pliers to further twist it out and remove it.

If all else fails, then gently push out the spraybar and Epoxy another in its place. That may be easier said than done.

But, if you can work out the broken needle shaft, then you've salvaged the situation in a most satisfying way.

Personally if I could not restore it to OEM but salvaged it into a runner with say, a Cox Sure Start spraybar, then I'd have a new success story to share with photos.

It would be reminiscient of that nasty song we sung in Basic Training during road marches, about a yellow bird and its trophy bill, to remind me of my greatest kill.