Plans to revive the Cox .049 Tee Dee?

944_Jim wrote:I want Tee Dees now!


Sorry...it was too easy a target. All in jest. I remember seeing Xenalook, and finally making the connection to Cox International several years back got me wondering where the reference came from..Ahaaa! Now I get it.

Yabby wrote:Does this mean we would likely see TD 049 NVA (the gold/silver part the needle screws into) available as spares again please?

GaryB
'Yabby'

You betcha!!!!

getback wrote:The $89 range is good I think and extra parts to boot  While I got you , have you talked to Jason lately he's not been on in a while now . He was doing some 3D printing at one time .

We have been trying to get hold of Jason for a couple of months now, having sent him 020 reeds and circlips; for him to integrate into the 020 backplate assemblies that he was printing for us. So far, no responses ...

getback wrote:

Cox International wrote:

getback wrote:The $89 range is good I think and extra parts to boot  While I got you , have you talked to Jason lately he's not been on in a while now . He was doing some 3D printing at one time .

We have been trying to get hold of Jason for a couple of months now, having sent him 020 reeds and circlips; for him to integrate into the 020 backplate assemblies that he was printing for us. So far, no responses ...

 Thanks Bernie , Jacob had tried too , do you happen to have a phone # ? If so would like it PM only

Since Jason is a customer of ours, we do have a couple of phone numbers in the profile het set up in our webshop. However, in accordance with our privacy statement https://coxengines.ca/privacy-statement.html we are not at liberty to share this information without his consent and, as he is not replying to our emails, we can't get consent .

However, my recollection is that I tried both numbers last year; whereas one was out of service and the other one went to voice mail, with my call not returned. I know that he a super-busy guy and sometimes only replies to emails after a few months.

Jim,

I remembered you were asking about Medallions

and saw this on RCGroups - he is asking ~$50 for an .09 Meddy....
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?4290585-Cox-Medallion-Engine

944_Jim wrote:Mr. Bernie,
Since you mentioned Tee Dees, is there any hope of seeing new Medallions?

I'm assuming for either series, the hard part is spray bars (Medallion) and/or venturies/sprinklers (Tee Dee). It appears as though the other "hard parts" are still available (crank, case, and intake body plastic).

cstatman wrote:
Jim,

I remembered you were asking about Medallions

and saw this on RCGroups - he is asking ~$50 for an .09 Meddy....
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?4290585-Cox-Medallion-Engine

944_Jim wrote:Mr. Bernie,
Since you mentioned Tee Dees, is there any hope of seeing new Medallions?

I'm assuming for either series, the hard part is spray bars (Medallion) and/or venturies/sprinklers (Tee Dee). It appears as though the other "hard parts" are still available (crank, case, and intake body plastic).

Thanks and it's a more than fair price for the engine at retail level. However, with mounting marks, we can't sell it as "new" and it is missing the OEM packaging, wrenches and instructions. This would be a $95 retail piece for us but $50 + shipping would leave too a small margin for us.

Cox International wrote:

cstatman wrote:Jim, I remembered you were asking about Medallions and saw this on RCGroups - he is asking ~$50 for an .09 Meddy....
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?4290585-Cox-Medallion-Engine

Thanks and it's a more than fair price for the engine at retail level. However, with mounting marks, we can't sell it as "new" and it is missing the OEM packaging, wrenches and instructions. This would be a $95 retail piece for us but $50 + shipping would leave too a small margin for us.

I have been following this thread, and find it an interesting discussion, revealing that there are other factors sometimes overlooked, which affect marketing decisions.

Back during the highlight days of Cox, they basically manufactured all parts, so had total control over what they produced. Production decisions were made to lessen manufacturing costs. It was cheaper to produce the Medallion by simplifying with less parts and machining. The venturi was a single plastic assembly with NVA similar to the reed valves, crankshaft had a milled round opening versus TD rectangular, used the same single bypass cylinder and piston of the cheaper reed valves.

Less parts and simplified machining made an engine that required less assembly time, too. Plus, the Tee Dee had the premier flagship performance, which added value increasing cost. They could reduce the cost on the Medallion yet still make a decent profit.

Now, the process has changed to assembly of engines from existing parts with limited manufacturing of other needed parts subbed out to others through contracts. The overall cost of doing business has changed.

Given that these new Tee Dee's will be sold at a reasonable cost considering, I don't know why one would choose a lesser performing Medallion. Those desiring a Medallion are better off canvasing the various sales venues. I managed to purchase 4 years ago, a mislabeled earlier used by apparently not abused Medallion .049 for only $22.15 total including shipping and tax. It only had a broken off plastic venturi tap nipple, which I wouldn't use anyway.

Then from Bernie, I bought an NOS .049 muffled R/C exhaust choke throttle upgrade kit complete with non-SPI cylinder and piston, rotating muffler exhaust throttle sleeve at a very reasonable cost. I will reuse the single bypass SPI cylinder and piston on a reed valve engine, and make the Medallion into a decent muffled R/C engine.

Shortly after for under $40, bought an NOS earlier Medallion .09 R/C with exhaust throttle muffler without box.

Just saying that for those wanting a Medallion, because they are considered less desirable than a Tee Dee, if one is careful, can find them at good prices if they are patient.

Though I must say that Bernie's proposed new production of Tee Dee's is certainly a much better deal than what I have been observing elsewhere. Also, consider that sometimes buying from unknown sellers can be a can of worms. I have had some bad experiences from some of my engine purchases. At least Cox International (and Ex Model Engines) are reputable, trusted sources. And, the engines he will be producing are new, no time engines with longevity and power expected from new Cox products.

I hope I didn't throw a monkey wrench into the discussion with my above soapbox talk.

Just curious if there might also be an R/C exhaust throttle ring version? It of course would be priced higher to make it worthwhile to produce. But, it simplifies matters by having a properly fitted ring that works out of the box, for those who don't need muffling.

Would this type throttle work well on the Tee Dee? If no, then I'll move along.

Bernie, please sign me up for one TD, with or without the ring.

GallopingGhostler wrote:I hope I didn't throw a monkey wrench into the discussion with my above soapbox talk.

Just curious if there might also be an R/C exhaust throttle ring version? It of course would be priced higher to make it worthwhile to produce. But, it simplifies matters by having a properly fitted ring that works out of the box, for those who don't need muffling.

Would this type throttle work well on the Tee Dee? If no, then I'll move along.

Bernie, please sign me up for one TD, with or without the ring.

No monkey wrench at all Glad you posted because it's what I have been trying to convey all along in this thread, albeit piece-meal, as reactions to questions / comments.

We already sell a throttle ring for $12.95 that fits the cylinder nicely, so anyone could buy one with their engine. The throttle ring works ok with the TD engine but will work better with a non-SPI cylinder; which we could swap on request, at no extra cost.

No "signing up" required, as the engine will be a stock item, if we decide to proceed with the project.

Hello Bernie:

I was a Hobby Shop owner in Tyler Texas a few years ago and frequently purchased parts from you.

Personally I prefer the Medallion engines over the TDs, the Medallions are not as powerful but seemed much easier to run especially on low nitro fuel. The TDs seemed more suited to pressurized high performance applications like racing, and there isn’t much of that these days. I have probably 25 049/051 TDs and another 6 each of all the Medallions in my stash but I usually reach for a Medallion because they seem more reliable. I would like to try an RC Medallion in any size but can’t find the parts.

I believe there are many Cox engines that are currently sidelined for lack of parts. I’m searching for needle valves and spray bars for Medallion engines as we speak. Needles for the Medallion 15 go for at least $10 each on Ebay, when you can find them. Needles and spray bars for .09 engines are hard to find too. I suspect that you could focus on parts support for all the engines currently in service as a means to gauge REAL Cox engine activity.

Texas Timers used to sell spray bars and needles for Medallions and TD but have been out of stock for years. http://texastimers.com/

Have you asked the folks here what parts they need for the engines they already have?

Thanks, Bernie, yours would be my first .049 Tee Dee. I detuned the Norvel .061 Big Mig with a Cox red glow plug conversion head, but it still have very zippy performance for my Q-Tee, turned it from trainer to a decent sport plane.

My experiences with the unmuffled throttle rings was on the reed valves, but I observed on the earlier SPI Golden Bee's, top end was fine even with the slight reduction in exhaust exit area open wide, but provided decent idle. It did not inhibit SPI like a throttle ring muffler would.

Example, back in 1974 I used a Tatone EM-7 aftermarket muffler



on my Babe Bee. It lost considerable power when flying my Sterling Beginners Fokker Eindecker profile CL, that I quickly removed it. It had SPI, so considering that exit hole was larger than on other mufflers, figured that exhaust gas recirculating was the culprit.

I could be wrong, but I am thinking that an .049 Tee Dee with non-muffled throttle ring ought to still perform OK when used for sport flying purposes.

Comments

GG I totally agree with you, I cannot see a throttle ring causing any performance penalty at all with an 049 TD. It is completely different to a muffler. The throttle ring blocks the port when you want lowe revs and opens it all the way for higher revs. I cannot see a throttle ring causing a performance penalty. Lots of very experienced CEF memebers are using throttle tings on TD engines and a number of such have been posted of the past week showing how well they perform in general, be that custom made or the ones from Bernie or Matt. The concept is the same for all of them.

049flyer wrote:Hello Bernie:

I was a Hobby Shop owner in Tyler Texas a few years ago and frequently purchased parts from you.  

Personally I prefer the Medallion engines over the TDs, the Medallions are not as powerful but seemed much easier to run especially on low nitro fuel.  The TDs seemed more suited to pressurized high performance applications like racing, and there isn’t much of that these days.  I have probably 25 049/051 TDs and another 6 each of all the Medallions in my stash but I usually reach for a Medallion because they seem more reliable.  I would like to try an RC Medallion in any size but can’t find the parts.

I believe there are many Cox engines that are currently sidelined for lack of parts.  I’m searching for needle valves and spray bars for Medallion engines as we speak.  Needles for the Medallion 15 go for at least $10 each on Ebay, when you can find them.   Needles and spray bars for .09 engines are hard to find too.  I suspect that you could focus on parts support for all the engines currently in service as a means to gauge REAL Cox engine activity.

Texas Timers used to sell spray bars and needles for Medallions and TD but have been out of stock for years.  http://texastimers.com/

Have you asked the folks here what parts they need for the engines they already have?  

We hear you but, whenever we buy up an estate sale that comes with 049 TD and MD engines, the MD engines sit and sit (even though they are lower-priced) and the TD engines get snapped up fairly quickly. Case in point, we had about a dozen TD engines and, as of last week, are sold out again; whereas we have been sitting on three MD with RC muffler throttle for over 6 months.

We sometimes get parts for 09 and 15, including needle valves, carb bodies, spraybars etc, and can assure you that they have always been painfully slow sellers. I.E, 09 and 15 MD carb bodies perhaps 2-3 per month, 09 and 15 needle valves and spraybars perhaps the same. At that rate we simply can't manufacture 500 or 1,000 of each part.

BTW, Ex Model Engines still has 15 MD carb bodies for sale. Them and us split about 100 of them that we got 5-6 years ago from an Australian shop. It took us over two years to sell our 50 units. From the same supplier we also got about two dozen 15 MD spraybars and at least a year it took to sell them.

Bernie:

Thanks for your reply.  New MD carb bodies are easily found but not the needles and spray bars.

I would be happy to trade TDs for Medallions with RC throttles if you like.  I still need needles for the .15 and spray bars and needles for the .09 Medallion if you have them.  I probably even need a few more other parts that you website doesn’t show as available.

049flyer wrote:Bernie:

Thanks for your reply.  New MD carb bodies are easily found but not the needles and spray bars.

I would be happy to trade TDs for Medallions with RC throttles if you like.  I still need needles for the .15 and spray bars and needles for the .09 Medallion if you have them.  I probably even need a few more other parts that you website doesn’t show as available.

Totally hear you but, at historic rates of travel for sales for the parts that you mention, we could not justify production runs.

However, if you are interested in trading our three RC Medallions with throttle muffler for three Tee Dees, consider this to be a done deal and you could contact us at support@coxengines.com to initiate the exchange process.

Looking forward to this mutual exchange of product

Oops, I did it again ... (remember that Britney Spears song? )

To provide expanded coverage for further inputs, I posted messages in Stunt Hangar:

Open Forum:
https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/cox-internation-considering-production-of-the-cox-049-tee-dee/

and Vendor's Corner:
https://stunthanger.com/smf/cox-international/plans-to-revive-the-cox-049-tee-dee/

RC Groups:
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?4292645-Cox-Internation-Plans-to-Revive-the-Cox-049-Tee-Dee#post50535103

RC Universe:
https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/glow-engines-114/11705182-cox-international-considering-production-cox-049-tee-dee.html#post12762122

I hope that Bernie gets additional input and support from other potential buyers, so he knows whether it is worthwhile to jump in with both feet and do it!

And, at a cost is favorable to all parties with him included! (You know, the man has to eat, pay bills, and stay in business, too. )

Please note, I am not a member of most social media forums to include Fa**b**k and Tw*t**r, and some modeling forums can to be favoritism based toward the poster (i.e., if you're a no-body, some don't respond or they troll ) and not message content based, so any lack of hits on these may not be an indicator as to the popularity of the request.

I think that nowadays being realistic the new Tee Dee .049 would probably have to be priced at maybe $149.00 US. Although $99 US would be nice. It is a tough call though. It depends on how much the parts cost, profit margin, etc.

earlwb wrote:I think that nowadays being realistic the new Tee Dee .049 would probably have to be priced at maybe $149.00 US. Although $99 US would be nice. It is a tough call though. It depends on how much the parts cost, profit margin, etc.

Target price is $89 for engine only (no wrenches, printed instructions or fancy box).

Cox International wrote:

earlwb wrote:I think that nowadays being realistic the new Tee Dee .049 would probably have to be priced at maybe $149.00 US. Although $99 US would be nice. It is a tough call though. It depends on how much the parts cost, profit margin, etc.

Target price is $89 for engine only (no wrenches, printed instructions or fancy box).

That would be super awesome. Thanks for the info. I look forward to the project coming to fruition.

to the forum, @earlwb. Seen your wealth of experience through your comments in the other forums, glad to see you come on board here!