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Bad vices..................

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Bad vices..................

Post  rsv1cox on Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:11 pm

break.  It seems like forged vices would be stronger than cast vices.  Most are cast iron but some are cast steel.  Forged steel vices are expensive.  Class dismissed.  

I touched on my latest purchase, a drill press vice in another thread, $5 at a flea market only to discover that it was broken when I got it home.  I expected as much because of the price, but I took a chance and I'm glad that I did.  

I can't judge the person that broke it, because I'm guilty of the same thing, breaking my bench vice trying to separate a stubborn tie rod end off that #$@&&&^^ MG Midget.  But, that was a bench vice, not a drill press vice that you don't need to strong arm tight to hold a part.  

Phil and Coxaddict gave hints as to how to weld it.  But the broken bench vice is another matter.  It's subject to abuse and will have to be replaced.  So, with that in my mind and scads of JB Weld on hand I thought a JB cure in order.  So, I coated both bitter ends in the stuff, clamped and sloshed on some more around the edges.  Do I expect it to fail?  Sure.  But it's more of an experiment in the tenacity of JB Weld than a serious repair.  





The drill press vice is another matter, although it would be a better JBW candidate.  I knocked the dirt off this morning, evicted a few spiders and disassembled.  Big pieces went in the sandblaster for a light dusting, I would like to save the original machinery gray finish, then reassemble, clamp, and weld.  We shall see.  The chrome pieces will get some attention too.  Almost like throwing an Enya 60 in the boiling pot.



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Re: Bad vices..................

Post  fredvon4 on Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:25 pm

Bob MUCH too funny
I saw the new DP vice and commiserated with the problem

Then you added the broken Bench vice...and in the Photo I see----

" 4 DURA CRAP"

as the brand and I just spewed my tea n booze all over the laptop keyboard....


BUTT head!
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Re: Bad vices..................

Post  rsv1cox on Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:39 pm

Smile Smile Smile I saw that too Fred but only after I saw the posted picture.  Laughed right along with you.

Bob
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Re: Bad vices..................

Post  roddie on Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:53 pm

I'll bet that your bench-vise holds-up to most chores except MG Midget tie-rod smashing... Shocked Depending on how well you cleaned the mating-surfaces.. J.B. Weld repairs can be pretty strong.
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Re: Bad vices..................

Post  Cribbs74 on Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:00 pm

If you want a good vice it will be harder to find one made new. You would be better off finding one at a garage sale/flea market or estate sale.

My Dad gave me his English made "Record" vice and it has never failed me. Even when I get abusive with it.

British cars require a British vice. Wink
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Re: Bad vices..................

Post  Jason_WI on Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:44 pm

Wilton makes a good vice yet but they are spendy.
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Re: Bad vices..................

Post  rsv1cox on Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:54 pm

I like this one $1005.00 with free shipping... Smile

https://www.deelat.com/tools/vises/bench-pipe-vises/heavy-duty-83-type-anvil-swivel-base-bench-vises-size-12?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIirWvw8_I1QIVkR2BCh1mgwRuEAYYAiABEgIUOfD_BwE

For the record - It's DURA CRAFT...........Neither durable or crafty. Smile

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Re: Bad vices..................

Post  Admin on Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:41 pm

My grandpa made this vice. I use it regularly.




Keep your eyes open at flea markets and garage sales for old ones. I spotted a few nice old ones when I was at the Back To The 50's Car Show swap meet.

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Re: Bad vices..................

Post  pkrankow on Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:56 pm

Get your hands on a good old fashioned leg vise.  They have a post or leg that goes to the ground and is meant to be hammered on.  My particular vise is around 50 to 100 years old, and I have used a long handle hammer to "upset" items held in the jaws.  (I am sometimes an amateur blacksmith, trying to get back into it more than sometimes)

NEW examples will set you back a bit.  
https://www.blacksmithsdepot.com/products/anvils-vises/5-post-leg-vise.html
say $350 + shipping

Old examples are, when I bought mine, $10/inch of jaw width or $1-$2 per pound (a 4 to 6 inch example works out similarly, larger examples the weight is more appropriate.) (I paid $60 after shipping) Fast forward 7 years and prices have more than doubled.  Shows like "Forged in Fire" have some blame in this.

The screw and screw box of any vise should be inspected for wear, kept washed and oiled (no grease as that makes an abrasive paste)  If the screw is good, the jaws unmolested by torches and close within reasonable acceptance of "straight"  (about 1/4 inch off is considered effectively perfect) then it is a deal, more misalignment can be corrected.

Common missing parts are the spring and the bracket.  The spring is easy to make with limited tools from common mild steel, and a suitable bracket can be made from angle iron and u-bolts, or angle iron, a strap, and regular bolts.

The original bracket with my vise is fastened with a key and wedge.  If these parts are twisted or bent then they will not stay in place.  The key has "ears" on it, the wedge does not.

I would post a picture of my 6 inch vise, but I can't find an old one, and my vise is slightly buried in the garage.  It is mounted to a movable stand with a small table.  Almost all the metal is scrap from an old satellite dish. I plan to clean that area in the next couple weeks so I can try to remember to get a picture.

Remember to mount a leg vise to a solid post or as close to a table leg as possible to prevent table top flexing.

I also have a 4 inch Craftsman vise (cast steel, it is rather old) that was my dad's mounted on a regular work bench.  It is a little small for some tasks, but is fantastic for most tasks such as sharpening, filing, grinding, and such.

Phil
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Re: Bad vices..................

Post  rsv1cox on Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:23 pm

roddie wrote:I'll bet that your bench-vise holds-up to most chores except MG Midget tie-rod smashing... Shocked Depending on how well you cleaned the mating-surfaces.. J.B. Weld repairs can be pretty strong.

It might work for awhile roddie, the broken surfaces were rougher than the roughest sandpaper, about 10 grit I would suspect, lot's of area for the JBW to grab.  

Now that's a vice Jacob!

And Phil, reading the text of your link I found a warning like - Use of an extension arm is discouraged - Smile.  I was cranking on that stuck tie rod end with a 3 footer.  It's me or the tie rod I thought.  Turned out to be the demise of the vice.  Serves me right.  

Funny, after the vice broke I used a smaller vice to continue my effort and the pin practically fell out.  I think the broken vise in it's last gasp and shock loosened it.   I had been using a five pound sledge and that 2X4 as a platform to remove it, along with penetrating oil and torch heat. No go, so I pulled the idler arm and went to the vise.



It's not the bottom piece that caused the problem, rather the top piece above the 2X4 stuck in the idler arm. I used a socket and the vice to press it out.   This was on my '77 Midget, the tie rods on my 74 presented no problem.  

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Re: Bad vices..................

Post  Oldenginerod on Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:57 am

Cribbs74 wrote:
My Dad gave me his English made "Record" vice and it has never failed me.

"Record" is a pretty common brand out here, but by far the most popular is "Dawn". I think maybe they are Aussie made. I've never seen one break, and I've seen some pretty heavy duty stuff done in a vise over the years- I used to work in earthmoving repairs. In fact, the closest thing to a failure I've had is that I've virtually ripped the thing right off of the bench.

Rod.
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Re: Bad vices..................

Post  rsv1cox on Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:18 am

After a 24 hour cure I gave the repaired vice a light test, did fine.  After another 24 hours I will try it again using more pressure.  Epoxy like concrete cures over time.  It is said that the viaducts that the Romans built during the time of the Caesars's are still curing.
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Re: Bad vices..................

Post  fredvon4 on Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:36 am

Bob I can not find the thread ---but a year or so back I noted how I had one of my Dad's hand me down 1950s Palmgren 2.5" drill press vice.

My son had dropped it and the screw jack got bent and made it hard to use

I found the Mfg web sit to learn it had a lifetime warranty. I contacted them admitting WE damaged the part and asked if a replacement was available and how much

For a low $14 ish --IIRCC ---I got a new screw jack

If you can find the MFG of the broken vice it may just be the one part is NOT unreasonably priced and still available
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Re: Bad vices..................

Post  coxaddict on Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:08 pm

After seeing the break, a simple repair can be made with a piece of angle iron. Position the angle iron straddling the break.  Mark the centerline of the slide arms and the angle where they meet.  Drill and tap using counter sunk screws on the underside of the slide arms.   Use the vice jaw mounting holes to locate and drill the holes on other side of the angle. Sandwich the angle between the jaw and the boss and it's done! The angle would probably not allow the jaws to close completely but by using spacers you would be able to hold thinner materials.
Hope I got some ideas stirring in your head   lol!  lol!

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Re: Bad vices..................

Post  rsv1cox on Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:46 pm

Fred, the only markings that I can see on it shows in the pictures (100.) Maybe after I dust it off in the sand blaster something else will appear.

CA, What stirs in my head are marbles, and they make a terrible racket when I sneeze.

Bob
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Re: Bad vices..................

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