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Drill Press Question

Post  NEW222 on Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:59 pm

Hi all. Long story short. Bought a very old .22 rifle and was told it fired well, as the bolt was stored indoors and the action was very nice. Well, most of it was true, with the exception of firing well. So, it appears that the firing pin is worn about .025" short, I can assume from dry firing. Anyways, it is a simple all round pin. Does anyone think I can make one from a piece of steel on a drill press using a file, as I do not have a lathe? The only place I found so far is just shy of $40 CAD shipped, which is a very last resort. If it makes a difference it is a Marlin Model 80. Thank you.
And sorry if talking about rifles is not allowed, as I could not find any info on it. If so, please delete this post and I will not do such again. Thank you.
[img][/img]


Last edited by NEW222 on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:04 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Drill Press Question

Post  RknRusty on Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:52 pm

I wish that was in my skill set. It's not, but I'm curious, do you have a tool fixture that clamps to the deck of the drill press? I do know your chuck would have to be perfectly straight. Maybe with wide files that cover the entire length of the long shafts.
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Re: Drill Press Question

Post  Admin on Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:09 am

NEW222 wrote:And sorry if talking about rifles is not allowed, as I could not find any info on it. If so, please delete this post and I will not do such again.

You're okay Very Happy

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Re: Drill Press Question

Post  Jason_WI on Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:11 am

For $8 plus shipping you can get a new firing pin. Maybe it's the shipping that is the cost factor.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufacturer/marlinglenfield/rifles-marlin/80-2

I have ordered from them before and service was good.

Firing pins need to be fairly accurate and of tool steel that is usually hardened then tempered for toughness.

I made a firing pin for my J Stevens .22 break action derringer. It is a very short pin and I made it out of a grade 8 bolt on my lathe. I made it because a new or used one could not be sourced.
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Re: Drill Press Question

Post  NEW222 on Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:27 am

RknRusty wrote:I wish that was in my skill set. It's not, but I'm curious, do you have a tool fixture that clamps to the deck of the drill press? I do know your chuck would have to be perfectly straight. Maybe with wide files that cover the entire length of the long shafts.
Rusty

I do have the choice of 2 vices for my drill press that may be used as a holder I suppose. I had not thought of that, thank you. As for the chuck, it is not too bad. It is a garage sale bench top press, so it is not of the newest or highest quality, but it has worked for me so far. Thanks for teh tips Rusty.
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Re: Drill Press Question

Post  NEW222 on Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:32 am

Jason_WI wrote:For $8 plus shipping you can get a new firing pin. Maybe it's the shipping that is the cost factor.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufacturer/marlinglenfield/rifles-marlin/80-2

I have ordered from them before and service was good.

Firing pins need to be fairly accurate and of tool steel that is usually hardened then tempered for toughness.

I made a firing pin for my J Stevens .22 break action derringer. It is a very short pin and I made it out of a grade 8 bolt on my lathe. I made it because a new or used one could not be sourced.

I had seen that one. It is approximately $32 shipped to me on a rifle worth not much more. Plus, despite there being no restrictions on their site, I still have to worry about it on our side of the border. I am glad you mentioned bolt, as I did not think of that as pin material. I can only imagine that it may take a while sitting there to get the steel to the small shape I require. Hardening and tempering I have the resources to do here (MAP Gas torch and toaster oven), as I have made springs and such that work very well, another good use for hobby grade music wire.... And I was thinking of possibly making it in two parts, the larger diameter top part as one with a hole in it to accept the smaller diameter bottom, as it would be quicker to make I was thinking. Maybe tomorrow afternoon after work I will try something. And to you, thanks for your time and advice as well.
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Re: Drill Press Question

Post  rsv1cox on Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:59 am

Marlin model 80, nice old bolt action box magazine fed .22. Early ones had Ballard rifling, later changed to Marlin's "Microgroove." Easily told apart.

I checked my spares and don't have a firing pin or I would send you one. Your best bet is to buy a new replacement from Gun Parts Corp. Without a lathe making one of quality would be very difficult and something you would not want to use in your rifle.

Also check the face of the chamber for dry firing damage. You may have to "swage" out the burr if one is evident.

Bob
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Re: Drill Press Question

Post  NEW222 on Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:05 pm

Hey there Bob. This is a pre-microgroove rifle with the Ballard rifling. I am 99% sure as it is not stamped 'Microgroove'. As well, it is currently a single shot as there was no magazine included with the sale (something else I have to buy if and when I get this thing firing well). This part, however, doesn't really bother me, as I can make a plug and have it as just a single shot. I appreciate that you took some time to see if you did in fact have a spare, that gesture was greatly appreciated. As for the chamber, I will have a peek and see. I will get back with a report, and a picture shortly.
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Re: Drill Press Question

Post  NEW222 on Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:36 pm

Ok. So, I just took a peekski at teh chamber face. It appears very good. As for the rest. I will also get to the rest of the story. It came to me with the stock broken in 3 pieces, barrel and receiver extremely rusty on the outside, rear sight and triggerguard missing, and safety thumb lever broken (but still works well, and one less thing to catch and break off myself....). So, I glued the stock together, pinned it together in a couple places with dowel to dry. As it also had many deeper nicks and gouges, I filled with automotive fiberglass. Followed by a very good sanding and 3 good coats of a latex primer. Let it sit and dry well, and sanded till the grain was visable. Then I sprayed on one light coat of rattle can primer, followed by a light coat of texture spray. I waited for it to dry well, then spray painted with camo olive green spray paint. After this whole mess was dry, I gave it a couple light coats of spray gloss clear. As for teh barrel and receiver, I put a stainless wheel in the drill press and a small one in a cordless drill and went to town. Once all rust, corrosion, and remaining bluing was gone, I sanded it quickly followed by a complete cold bluing. Sanded this with steel wool and oil, and that was that. Found a trigger guard online, sotraced it out and cut out with bandsaw. Sanded edges smooth, primed and painted black. Made rear sight and sight elevator from tin and steel, hardened and tempered. Disassembled bolt, cleaned, and this is where we are now. Thanks for letting me ramble on about this little project. I will attach a picture of the chamber face, as well as one of the whole thing.



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Re: Drill Press Question

Post  NEW222 on Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:41 pm

And I almost forgot. The butt pad. The stock was missing the butt plate, and as it is only a .22, I rounded the edges and painted with the rest of the gun. Then, only after it was completed, there was a local gun show, in whick I picked up a butt pad assembly. It was bigger, but as the stock was rounded, it would have to be sanded even more to square it off, and possibly refinished again in the back as the final sanding and shaping would probably remove some of the finish. So, in the end, I cut off a piece of my kneeling pad, screwed it on, and covered in camo cloth tape. It was actually better as it increased the LOP about an inch and it now fits me better when aiming.
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Re: Drill Press Question

Post  rsv1cox on Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:30 pm

Your a man after my own heart. I love it when someone takes the time to rescue an old rifle. Great work on repairing that stock. Many would have just trashed it and found another.

I enjoy working with wood, but I'm not very good at it. Guess I have repaired/refinished well over a hundred stocks. I only painted just one though. Usually I let my repairs hang out for all to see.



Marlin, a favorite right after Remington. Especially the 99M1's



Yes, the bolt face looks fine. I love all firearms but .22's are my favorites, semi auto's especially. I would be embarrassed to tell how many I have owned over a lifetime.
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Re: Drill Press Question

Post  NEW222 on Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:07 pm

Wow. All very fine specimens there. I really like the look of the stock you posted on the top photo. I really like how nice and clean the what I am guessing is a repair piece inserted. It sure really adds character. I also like the picture of the 99M1's. Especially the disassembled view. I have not personally seen one, although they do look really nice. Is the engraved stock (bottom)a factory design, one of yours, or someone elses that was on it when you picked it up? I personally am a huge fan of .22 as well, except I used to like a semi-auto, but now persoanlly prefer bolt action. I do not really know why, but I do. They are cheap enough to shoot, that is why I like a .22 caliber. I am not honestly brand specific, but would like a Cooey, any model would suffice for me.
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Re: Drill Press Question

Post  NEW222 on Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:26 pm

I just found a better picture online, and my drawing was out a bit, so made a change to the what I need to add.
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Re: Drill Press Question

Post  Cribbs74 on Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:17 pm

It’s going to be way easier to buy the part you need as Jason suggested. Your rifle os worth way more than $32. You may have bought it cheap, but resale is worth more. Besides a proper working accurate rifle is priceless to you. The .22 is extremely versatile and proper shot placement can accomplish more than you think.

.22 is rimfire so it’s not really a pin as such, as it doesn’t strike the case on center and had a bevel edge. Do you have a picture of the original part?
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Re: Drill Press Question

Post  NEW222 on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:10 pm

Cribbs74 wrote:It’s going to be way easier to buy the part you need as Jason suggested. Your rifle os worth way more than $32. You may have bought it cheap, but resale is worth more. Besides a proper working accurate rifle is priceless to you. The .22 is extremely versatile and proper shot placement can accomplish more than you think.

.22 is rimfire so it’s not really a pin as such, as it doesn’t strike the case on center and had a bevel edge. Do you have a picture of the original part?

Thank you. I know in the end it would be the best to just buy the pin. I am just trying to cover all possibilities before this in case there is something else I could be possibly missing. Although it is pretty simple, I am thinking it will need the pin. I wish I had bought it cheaper than I did. I took his word for it that it was functioning fine. The sight and triggerguard were fun for me to make and install, as was the stock repair. Yes, they are versatile, and fun to shoot. We can shoot pretty much anywhere at the lake in teh summer. Again, thank you for your time and reply. I will post a picture of an original one that I had grabbed online. It is a pretty good picture, and was going to be the one I used to try making one.

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Re: Drill Press Question

Post  NEW222 on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:12 pm

The only two things not shown clearly on this picture are close ups of both ends. They are both radiussed (sp?). My original picture shows the head, or end that gets struck by the hammer in the bolt. The end that strikes the primer is also radiussed as well, of which mine has very little, thinking that is what is causing my problem.
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Re: Drill Press Question

Post  Cribbs74 on Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:47 pm

Usually the end that strikes the case is shaped like a blunt axe, or a screwdriver tip if you will.

While the pin may very well be worn, the hammer spring may also be stretched, when the hammer falls it may not be hitting the case hard enough to excite the primer. This is usually caused by the gun being stored for extended periods when the hammer is cocked.

The pin you show looks to have no wear at all. The piece that hits the case looks to be seperate from that pin.


Last edited by Cribbs74 on Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Drill Press Question

Post  Cribbs74 on Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:04 pm

I just went outside and fired a round as I didn’t have a spent case. From the photo you should be able to see the shape and the recess of the dent for comparison.

Your gun should be making the same mark on the case. If it’s faint it’s the spring, if it oddly shaped it’s the pin.


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Re: Drill Press Question

Post  NEW222 on Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:31 pm

Thanks Ron for your time and effort to help. While I am familiar with the pin strike on a rimfire, this guy is slightly different. This is the front firing pin complete. The rear one is just a round barrel with a cutout for the pin to hold the bolt together. Marlin had changed the firing pin design when the rear of the bolt shape changed. This rifle is dated from 1934 to 1939. The firing pin actually strikes the case differently than what yours does. I will get a picture of the face of the bolt and maybe a case tomorrow after work. This is an odd little guy. Thanks again for your time. The picture posted is not mine, but rather one of a new firing pin found online.
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Re: Drill Press Question

Post  Jason_WI on Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:06 am

Here is the firing pin I made for the J Stevens .22 break action derringer. My grandpa bought this gun for 50 cents. He used to keep it with him working the fields to shoot woodchucks that would burrow holes in the fields. The gun used to be nickle plated. Some plating is left under the grips. Very little rifling left in the barrel. I shoot CB shorts out of it. It's in poor shape and not worth much but it was my grandpa's. Has a hair trigger which makes it kinda dangerous to shoot. Gotta pay attention when shooting this one.



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Re: Drill Press Question

Post  rsv1cox on Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:16 am

NEW222 wrote:Wow. All very fine specimens there. I really like the look of the stock you posted on the top photo. I really like how nice and clean the what I am guessing is a repair piece inserted. It sure really adds character. I also like the picture of the 99M1's. Especially the disassembled view. I have not personally seen one, although they do look really nice. Is the engraved stock (bottom)a factory design, one of yours, or someone elses that was on it when you picked it up? I personally am a huge fan of .22 as well, except I used to like a semi-auto, but now persoanlly prefer bolt action. I do not really know why, but I do. They are cheap enough to shoot, that is why I like a .22 caliber. I am not honestly brand specific, but would like a Cooey, any model would suffice for me.

Yes, factory and quite rare. Known as the Squirrel stock for obvious reasons.

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Re: Drill Press Question

Post  getback on Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:10 am

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Re: Drill Press Question

Post  NEW222 on Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:57 pm

This is the little update with the bolt I mentioned yesterday. So, Ron, I am farmiliarwith the flat slotted type of firing pin, as is on every other rimfire I know of or have ever fired. This one, however is different as mentioned. I thought this one was wierd right off the hop myself. It is a little round firing pin that strikes the rim of the shell, same as a centerfire (which I am suspecting they took a centerfire pin and moved it off center to strike the rim area). It is wierd by my standards as well. At least a flat type as used by whatever you had shot would be MUCH easier to make for me, and I have made them in the past and all functioned fine for my friend and myself. Anyways, enough rambling here, I attached two pictures. One is just the face of the bolt, and the other is with a spent casing attached to show how it sits on the bolt.


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Re: Drill Press Question

Post  NEW222 on Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:08 pm

Here is a picture of a shell casing strike.

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Re: Drill Press Question

Post  rsv1cox on Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:34 pm

Jason's Stevens model 41 pictured above might be worth more than he thinks.  Decent examples can approach $250.

Firing pins can be as varied as the millions of firearms that carry them.  As most know, Law Enforcement Agencies can ID a firing pin strike on a spent case down to a specific pin. No two are alike be it center or rim fire.

I would errr....bite the bullet and buy a new replacement.  But, unless I'm missing something that case strike should be sufficient to fire that round without any replacement.  
Bob


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