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Cox Engine of The Month
February-2018
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"Another Twin Born 2-2-2018 weight 4 oz."



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Torches and Pitchforks Hero.......

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Torches and Pitchforks Hero.......

Post  rsv1cox on Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:22 am

That's me. Sad

I had to be the one to jump in and buy the subject of Mark's (batjac) "Grab your torches and pitchforks" thread even after initially agreeing with his implied assessment.  "Time to get out the spanking machine" I responded.

Turns out I'm enjoying it.

It kept me busy during a housebound snow/sleet and freezing rain day.  

The Babe Bee was as castor locked as any I have seen.  It was my intent to leave "as found" but I just could not do it.  So, I used the heat gun and a lot of Remoil to free it.  It took some doing and burned fingers but it finally came loose.  Regardless, I decided to mount an identical engine that I had on hand.  Identical engine? Well almost as there are differences in the back plate (Made in USA), and the venturi screening is different. See picture.



Then I wasn't going to disassemble it.   Oh, why not!  So I removed the fuel tank only to find a reasonably clean interior.  Evidently the PO at least ran the tank dry during it's final run.  I had flushed the fuel pickup tubing by straw spraying Remoil down the needle valve opening, the moisture you seen in the tank.  







I was surprised to see this uncommon prop nut when I removed the spinner.  





It seems that the engines thrust angle is all wrong.  East West is fine, whether or not the Op intended it that way it would guide the car to the outside of the circle, but not North South.  The way the engine is positioned, it looks like it would tend to lift the car instead of exerting a downward force to keep the nose down.



Now to make up some sort of a tether and run it.
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Re: Torches and Pitchforks Hero.......

Post  pkrankow on Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:18 pm

I thought you said it was back heavy to start with, won't the angle keep the front wheels down? How back heavy was it to start with?

Phil
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Re: Torches and Pitchforks Hero.......

Post  rsv1cox on Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:43 pm

Yes, with the engine hanging out over the rear of the car rather than with the engine in the car as normal, I thought it would throw off the balance/position of the tether points if there ever was one.  

I'm probably over-thinking it too much.  Smile

If I was positioning the engine mount on the car I would have the engines thrust line parallel to the chassis or at least giving a little down force.  Another frankin model pictured in Mark's original thread has super down force only it's mounted on the front of the car.  

Anyone know if that prop nut/spinner is original to Cox?  

Bob
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Re: Torches and Pitchforks Hero.......

Post  fredvon4 on Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:31 pm

Bob I think perhaps over thinging... tis a heavy car and wimpy .049 is probably not enough thrust to lift the ass end but if I was to guess, the original guy probably though it would put some down pressure on the front tires

Get a running engine on it and experiment

I did miss the photo for rear tether bridal behind the rear wheel when I made the comment about the front tether only was gonna be a problem

If it was me I would find the front to rear CG and make a "V" wire attaching to both locations that is very slight aft of that true CG so the front would tend to track out side circle.... caused a bit of drag.....the closer to true CG the fast lap times...to far forward it will tend to come in
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Re: Torches and Pitchforks Hero.......

Post  Marleysky on Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:33 pm

Looks Like the tether Bridle might be "adjustable" with that Cowboy Necktie Slide type thing to adjust the angle? ? I'm not certain, but here's a picture:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/202214502269?ul_noapp=true
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Re: Torches and Pitchforks Hero.......

Post  rsv1cox on Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:06 pm

Marleysky wrote:Looks Like the tether Bridle might be "adjustable" with that Cowboy Necktie Slide type thing to adjust the angle? ?  I'm not certain, but here's a picture:  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/202214502269?ul_noapp=true

That is crazy. I'm not interested in bidding but does anyone know how it's attached to the car?
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Re: Torches and Pitchforks Hero.......

Post  Marleysky on Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:29 pm

Bob, look up the Cox “O-Forty-Five" Special Racer in the “Instructions “ on left hand side of this page. 1st page #7, illustration #4 wire goes , down, around back up and over itself  to lock inplace.  Some cars may need a offset bracket to prevent the bridle from rubbing on the rear wheel:
https://goo.gl/images/e1x6ni.
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Re: Torches and Pitchforks Hero.......

Post  crankbndr on Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:39 pm

I just realized the bridles I have are made for the cars with mounting points inside the tires like the O-Forty-Five and Prop Rod.
Mounting point behind the tires, like on the Champions is different, the bridle would need to be much bigger to clear tire.
I have instructions for Champion cars and they say nothing about a bridle.

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Re: Torches and Pitchforks Hero.......

Post  Davenz13 on Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:53 pm

Here's a picture of the bridle as fitted to the whip version. Catalog doesn't show the bridle for the powered version but it may be the same. Huh...

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Re: Torches and Pitchforks Hero.......

Post  getback on Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:01 am



Last edited by getback on Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:03 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : vid add)
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Re: Torches and Pitchforks Hero.......

Post  getback on Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:10 am

this is you Bob ..  you  gotoo see this I Love This Forum!
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Re: Torches and Pitchforks Hero.......

Post  rsv1cox on Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:49 am

Weird, wild, and wonderful Eric. Thanks for the links.

First go-pro video made me dizzy. Kim on a car.... Smile

I have lot's of metal rod suitable for building the attachment bridle, getting the angles right avoiding the rear wheel and getting a proper balance will be fun.

Bob
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Re: Torches and Pitchforks Hero.......

Post  rsv1cox on Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:44 am

Why wouldn't just a simple string work instead of a hard wire?

String clears the rear wheels and when hung on the string at the point pictured the car is parallel to the surface.  

I may yet construct a wire bent as show in the "whip" model above, but I think the string with a slip knot (or tied knot at the apex) tether line would work as well.  Don't worry about the strength of the string, It's thread used in the construction of parachutes, and it's never failed.

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Re: Torches and Pitchforks Hero.......

Post  getback on Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:36 am

I don't know that string want work? All i have to go on is what we have seen , and it seems ever one is different !??!?! lol! It should bee some fun though i need to get off my butt and get started on the engine mount !! This Site Rocks!
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Re: Torches and Pitchforks Hero.......

Post  KariFS on Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:55 am

That is a very Charming toy Bob! Somehow I felt it had your name on it when I saw the listing the first time  Smile

One advantage of using a hard wire would be that if the vehicle happens to tip over, or turn into the circle, a hard wire won't get tangled in the propeller.

The whip version probably has the string attachment point towards the front because pulling the string gives the car its speed. If the string was attached more rearwards, the front of the car would steer out of the circle and the car would tip over.

I don't know what would be the best spot to mount the tether but my intuition suggests to use a v-shaped hard wire with the tether mount just slightly aft of the mid-point of the wheelbase. My intuition is not always right though lol!
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Re: Torches and Pitchforks Hero.......

Post  getback on Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:59 am

Well the bridle Doug show (not for our app.) is only 1/2" diff. in length and the one i got of the web is obliviously more offset like 2-2.5" ? When i get to that point i will bee going with a solid bridle (wire/coat hanger) with some more bend to accept the wire to car hooks/holes Very Happy Small Cox Logo I got a white SBJ i am thinking about putting on it also.
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Re: Torches and Pitchforks Hero.......

Post  rsv1cox on Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:18 pm

Thanks guys,

This might be a run it "one and done" effort and put the old original engine back on.  I don't want to put too much thought in it.  I might just get addicted to tether cars too.

Or, I have been itching to remove the engine and mount, sandblast the body, fill in the extra holes and prime and paint returning it to just a pusher.  

But what fun is that!

The fun will be in constructing a pivot minimizing rotational friction.  After reviewing the videos above, I might need something heavier than a MG Midget brake rotor as a base though.

Nobody has any info regarding that spinner and base/prop nut pictured above?
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Re: Torches and Pitchforks Hero.......

Post  Marleysky on Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:13 pm

rsv1cox wrote:Thanks guys,

Nobody has any info regarding that spinner and base/prop nut pictured above?  

Nope, Bob I’ve never seen one like that before. Definitely not on any of my Cox engines.
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Re: Torches and Pitchforks Hero.......

Post  rsv1cox on Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:58 pm

My first attempt at a solid rod bridle.





I think I will have to lengthen the forward leg of the bridle, as configured I'm afraid that it would trend into the circle rather than away. But then there is centrifugal force.
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Re: Torches and Pitchforks Hero.......

Post  fredvon4 on Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:28 am

Stick a screw driver blade in the V notch and lift...see if he nose or butt is heavy

Butt heavy bad, nose heavy ok but draggy as front scuff to out side of circle, nearly level balance will be fastest lap ties
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Re: Torches and Pitchforks Hero.......

Post  rsv1cox on Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:51 am

fredvon4 wrote:Stick a screw driver blade in the V notch and lift...see if he nose or butt is heavy

Butt heavy bad, nose heavy ok but draggy as front scuff to out side of circle, nearly level balance will be fastest lap ties

Did that Fred, but I used my finger.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OBlgSz8sSM

Tail heavy, wouldn't ya know.

Future modelers.

Bob
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Re: Torches and Pitchforks Hero.......

Post  getback on Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:15 am

Maybe Mark B will pop in on that spinner , i dont recall seeing one before but its cool , Bob i typed at DanMc over at his photo tour and he said he also has a prop rod or 2 he is wanting to run / also has some wires and new in the box shrike that he will look and see what can come up with as he dont know the set up either . I think he is going to pop in on us i gave him the link ...  The set up U got looks good if the wire dont straighten out in running ! if it does whats the worse a flipping crash , at least will already bee on the ground ! lol! This is a cool ride on check it out ..
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Re: Torches and Pitchforks Hero.......

Post  rsv1cox on Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:29 am

Ya all are thinking this thing is going to be really fast, I'm thinking lead sled.

Watched the video Eric. I don't understand how anyone can hand control at that speed, well beyond my ability. My son had a RC-10 (Tamiya?) that he used to run. I think he still has it. No way I'm getting involved, too many other irons in the fire.

Bob
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Re: Torches and Pitchforks Hero.......

Post  getback on Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:26 am

rsv1cox wrote:Ya all are thinking this thing is going to be really fast, I'm thinking lead sled.

Watched the video Eric.  I don't understand how anyone can hand control at that speed, well beyond my ability.  My son had a RC-10 (Tamiya?) that he used to run.  I think he still has it.  No way I'm getting involved, too many other irons in the fire.

Bob
I hear you , i couldn't do it at that kind of speed either . I just like the on board Go-Pro ,like sitting in the seat Shocked RC Plane slow flier for me !
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The non-screen, non-USA backplate

Post  ticomareado on Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:20 pm

I wouldn't have used it on the car project as it is one of (if not the) first version(s) Baby Bee back plates and is quite a bit scarcer than the others. If it came on the rest of its original engine then you need to restore the whole thing and hang on to it.
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Re: Torches and Pitchforks Hero.......

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