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So, sometimes when you win, you lose............

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So, sometimes when you win, you lose............

Post  rsv1cox on Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:48 am

Rare first gen 3 bolt Enya .19 "won" on ebay at enhanced $ rate.





Presently negotiating with seller.


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Re: So, sometimes when you win, you lose............

Post  Kim on Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:54 am

Sorry Bob, but I'm having a dense moment. What is the deal with you engine?

Curious but Slow Kim
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Re: So, sometimes when you win, you lose............

Post  rsv1cox on Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:03 pm

Smile Smile...I do leave a lot to the imagination don't I..............

The long shafted screwdriver through the glow plug hole should not go all the way to the bottom.  In most cases it would encounter the top of the piston on the way.  Sad

Replacement pistons and connecting rods are non-existent for these early engines, even my good friend Bobby Brooks, the Enya guy here in the US doesn't not have any.

Made a deal with the seller, he returned $65 to my account. I will clean it up and it will be a static display filling a hole in my Enya collection.

Added pictures. Other items that arrived at the same time work well though. Early anodized 8 fin Enya's. The one in question is a 7 fin not anodized engine that predates them.






Last edited by rsv1cox on Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:18 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: So, sometimes when you win, you lose............

Post  OVERLORD on Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:04 pm

Kim wrote:Sorry Bob, but I'm having a dense moment.  What is the deal with you engine?

Curious but Slow Kim

The engine seems to be pistonless
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Re: So, sometimes when you win, you lose............

Post  Kim on Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:06 pm

DUH!!!!!?????

Curious Kim retreats in shame......
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Re: So, sometimes when you win, you lose............

Post  Kim on Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:18 pm

rsv1cox wrote:Smile Smile

This one predates even the most rare 3 case bolt Enyas.

Is there a later model piston that would fit that engine?
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Re: So, sometimes when you win, you lose............

Post  rsv1cox on Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:23 pm

Kim wrote:DUH!!!!!?????

Curious Kim retreats in shame......

Ha on that.  I'm the master here of not understanding.

I learn positive things from you every day.

Bob
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Re: So, sometimes when you win, you lose............

Post  rsv1cox on Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:28 pm

Kim wrote:
rsv1cox wrote:Smile Smile

This one predates even the most rare 3 case bolt Enyas.

Is there a later model piston that would fit that engine?

I wish. Even my friend in Australia doesn't have one. I first contacted Bobby Brooks and got a not only no, but why did you even ask reply. There are plenty on ebay that Bobby is selling but they only fit the later engines. Kinda like the piston in a new Ford not fitting in a model A.

Bob
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Re: So, sometimes when you win, you lose............

Post  roddie on Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:01 pm

Geez................ what a bummer. What year (approximately) is that engine Bob?
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Re: So, sometimes when you win, you lose............

Post  Oldenginerod on Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:11 pm

Well Bob, we don't know what you paid over and above the returned $65, but at least you have the engine and as you say, will make a display piece if nothing else. Also, if you do happen to eventually come across the required parts, how would you feel if you had sent the engine back?
I in fact have several "pistonless" engines on my display board. You just need to prepare to answer questions from those who decide to crank over the display piece.

Rod.
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Re: So, sometimes when you win, you lose............

Post  rsv1cox on Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:36 am

roddie wrote:Geez................ what a bummer. What year (approximately) is that engine Bob?

February 1950 roddie. First of three editions (this one) #1 7 fin non-anodized head, round intake port on crank. #2 same but rectangular intake port. Followed by - #3 8 fin anodized head. All 3 case bolt Enya's. Makes this, the first of the Enya .19's worth saving.

Bob
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Re: So, sometimes when you win, you lose............

Post  rsv1cox on Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:40 am

Oldenginerod wrote:Well Bob, we don't know what you paid over and above the returned $65, but at least you have the engine and as you say, will make a display piece if nothing else.  Also, if you do happen to eventually come across the required parts, how would you feel if you had sent the engine back?
I in fact have several "pistonless" engines on my display board.  You just need to prepare to answer questions from those who decide to crank over the display piece.

Rod.

I asked for and received half of my total investment. If I knew the bore/stroke for sure I would have a machine shop make me a piston and connecting rod. I know the 4002's were square at 16mmX16mm but I'm not sure about the early ones.

It's boiling in the pot right now along with a 4002 and a couple of Cox engines.

Bob
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Re: So, sometimes when you win, you lose............

Post  getback on Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:57 am

That's a shame , but as it is it still looks GOOD and you have a piece of history that a lot of people don't . Look at it this way you probably wasn't going to run it but i understand the not all being there thing ,cause i resemble that ! Shamrock
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Re: So, sometimes when you win, you lose............

Post  rsv1cox on Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:59 am

getback wrote:That's a shame , but as it is it still looks GOOD and you have a piece of history that a lot of people don't . Look at it this way you probably wasn't going to run it but i understand the not all being there thing ,cause i resemble that ! Shamrock

Smile Smile  We should start a "Not all being there" club, you be Prez and I'll be Vice Prez.  

Yeah, the voice of reason, I probably wasn't going to run it, true.  

About 6 hours in the pot along with an Enya .29 and a couple of Cox .049's and it cleaned up well.  First layer, still needs an alcohol rinse and some oil.





Looks like the piston didn't have a baffle.  Easier to duplicate.



And, I guessed wrong (again) it has a rectangular intake instead of round. Sad
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Re: So, sometimes when you win, you lose............

Post  Oldenginerod on Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:07 pm

Have you considered contacting Ken Enya and asking for some dimensions? Since the parts aren't available from him, he may be willing to pass on some details, if he has them.
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Re: So, sometimes when you win, you lose............

Post  rsv1cox on Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:30 am

Oldenginerod wrote:Have you considered contacting Ken Enya and asking for some dimensions?  Since the parts aren't available from him, he may be willing to pass on some details, if he has them.

I have tried contacting Ken Enya several times within the past year without a response.  Guess my Japanese isn't up to snuff.  But I have been told that's not unusual.

I'm corresponding with Pat King (Bob Allan's "Compendium" source for the early .19's) and he indicates that rods from Enya .19's up through the III's will work and is checking pistons for me.

I know the 4002's/3's pistons had baffles so they would be a no go unless the piston itself was just grooved for a baffle.  I have many 4002's etc. (pictured) that I could experiment with, pulling the piston and filing down the baffle.  But, I'm not messing with my untouched early 3 and 4 bolt red heads.



I'm really happy that I listened to you and did not send it back, I had it all repacked and ready to go.  It just glows with only an A/F boil and looking at it you would never know that it isn't a complete engine.  But I still intend to find or make replacements.  Enya must have changed the metallurgy between the sand-casts and the later engines.  

Bob
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Re: So, sometimes when you win, you lose............

Post  Ken Cook on Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:59 am

Bob, I passed this onto a person who might be able to assist. While he's retired, I know his schedule is quite busy.Hopefully his response is fast. He collects similar versions and if he doesn't have it, I know he knows enough in engine land who does. Ken
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Re: So, sometimes when you win, you lose............

Post  rsv1cox on Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:06 am

Ken Cook wrote:            Bob, I passed this onto a person who might be able to assist. While he's retired, I know his schedule is quite busy.Hopefully his response is fast. He collects similar versions and if he doesn't have it, I know he knows enough in engine land who does. Ken

Thanks Ken, I appreciate it.

This is curious. I pulled the piston assembly from the donor .19 with the baffle and it fits in the sand-cast, loosely. (falls out when up-ended.) But it only cycles when the piston is put in wrong. Baffle on the wrong side. Put it in with the baffle away from the exhaust and it binds.

Piston to crankshaft fit is fine, no problem there. At TDC the baffle just reaches the top of the cylinder and with the head on, cycles perfectly, however there is no baffle relief in the sand casts head as there is in the 4003's.





Right now there is a piston in the hole and it cycles, I'm leaving it that way until I get it sorted out.


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Re: So, sometimes when you win, you lose............

Post  rsv1cox on Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:24 pm

A helpful Pat King has verified that the piston indeed had a baffle despite no corresponding relief in the head.  Even sent stats and pictures.  Getting to the bottom of things.  

Bob

Edit add...........Pat reminded me that connecting rods are offset toward the back of the engine to clear the counterweight on the crank, all I have to do is turn the connecting rod around. Duh on me. Sad
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Re: So, sometimes when you win, you lose............

Post  rsv1cox on Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:56 am

Good news this morning.  The seller contacted me saying that he found a box of his grandfathers old Enya parts containing pistons and connecting rods.  Fingers crossed.

For now, with an incorrect piston it sits among friends.



Bob
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Re: So, sometimes when you win, you lose............

Post  getback on Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:50 am

Another shining star ! I hope you can get the correct piston for it too . Easter Bunny
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Re: So, sometimes when you win, you lose............

Post  Kim on Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:53 am

You're on the trail now, Dude! Just a matter of time before the right piston shows up !!!
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Re: So, sometimes when you win, you lose............

Post  Mark Boesen on Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:05 am

Good lookin' display Bob!
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Re: So, sometimes when you win, you lose............

Post  rsv1cox on Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:43 am

Mark Boesen wrote:Good lookin' display Bob!

Yup, My over publicized Timex/Enya "Go-round".  One lighted revolution every 45 seconds..... Smile




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Re: So, sometimes when you win, you lose............

Post  Mark Boesen on Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:24 am

My first R/C engine was a Enya .29, in a Kadet Jr.
I lost the Kadet in a 'hey-watch-this' moment, got her up to appx. 350-400' and put it into a vertical dive, it was amazing how quickly it accelerated, but as soon as i moved the stick the wing separated and the rest continued straight down...wham!
I was lucky it slammed into a cornfield, soft dirt saving the Enya.


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