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Nead info on diesel engine irvine .40 and other stuf  - Page 2 Empty

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Post  davidll1984 Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:49 pm

Nahh Not tinking of seling them y wil Not say no To trade for tee dee .15 or médalion .15 rc cl Not sur
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Post  davidll1984 Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:21 pm

Now serching for the neadle for the k&b torpedo .40 y found that part Not sur its the Good one Nead info on diesel engine irvine .40 and other stuf  - Page 2 Screen15
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Post  davidll1984 Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:31 pm

Want To convert wit Front carb housing and carburator
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Post  davidll1984 Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:41 pm

Is the remote Line wil fit on its oem spray bar ??? If that part fit Nead info on diesel engine irvine .40 and other stuf  - Page 2 Screen16
wil y get trouble wit fuel mixture flow ?????
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Post  davidll1984 Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:02 pm

Huh... the irvine engine is . 40 torpedo same an y have found the carb on torpedo is irvine carb look Very Happy Nead info on diesel engine irvine .40 and other stuf  - Page 2 Screen17
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Post  davidll1984 Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:06 pm

Tink of fit the irvine carb To m'y torpedo and fit the pits exaust it came wit is very large Not tinking it wil do noting other than redirection of exaust
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Post  ffkiwi Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:43 pm

@davidll1984 wrote:Try To Find info video run of the webra mach || 2 if  posible To convertir To nitro ?? Rare engine my is in Good chape Good compression no mising part next for clean up Smile

No it is not possible to convert it to nitro-it was designed and built purely for diesel operation-and while you can often convert glow engines to diesel operation, the reverse is generally not the case-quite apart from timing and cylinder fits, the fuel flow requirements of glow operation are such that the passages are too restrictive on a diesel to operate effectively on glow fuel. The Mach-II was a great engine in its day-clean it up, and either use it, or pass it on-but don't attempt to butcher it-all you will achieve is destroying any resale value. The Webra Mach-1 of the 1950s WAS available as a diesel and a glow-but the only shared parts was the lower crankcase unit-the cylinder and upper works were quite different-and there is no relationship between the Webra Mach-1 and the Webra Mach-II other than the name and the designer-Gunther Bodemann-they are entirely different engines designed over 10 years apart.

You MAY be able to find a suitable Irvine head to convert the diesel Irvine to glow operation-but just be aware there are a LOT of different Irvine 20 and 40 models-and the parts do not necessarily interchange between Irvine models of the same engine capacity-you could easily end up buying a part that will not fit your particular engine.

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Post  davidll1984 Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:04 pm

Not sur for irvine mod To nitro tink just make fuel for him and webra build plane for and give it a try on diesel never flight wit diesel engine y want traîner or stick rc plane for the webra as first try wit ajusting compression fuel wit irvine tink wil have To get Good training befor
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Post  ffkiwi Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:37 am

For its era-the Mach-II was arguably one of the top three 2.5cc production diesels available-the other two being the British Oliver Tiger and the Eta 15....the Super Tigre G20/15D being a close fourth. The engine test on the Mach-II can be found here: http://sceptreflight.com/Model%20Engine%20Tests/Webra%20Mach%20II.html

Be warned though-that by diesel standards (of the day) it delivers its peak power at very high rpm...like a racing glow...(as did the earlier Mach-1 diesel of the 50s)-and just like a glow needs a small prop to reach this peak. In practice that means it will be a bit vicious to start...especially on someone with no previous diesel experience. check the venturi bore on your one...the first examples were 4mm bore, later reduced to 3.5mm in the interests of good suction...but for max power you can bore out a 3.5mm venturi to 4mm....at the cost of a bit less suction..so a little more care required with tank location.

By small props I mean something of the order of 7x4 or 7x3.....though I'd suggest you start out with something like a 9x4 to get used to diesel starting technique...otherwise you're likely to be nursing bruised fingers....

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Post  davidll1984 Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:42 am

Thank you very helpful info for webra engine y wil use m'y engine now that y know little more about this engine is ventury look like cox .15 is it possible To change for ????wil mesure m'y ventury size an prop on m'y engine look like 9" x?


Last edited by davidll1984 on Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:06 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Corection)
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Post  ffkiwi Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:02 pm

In theory-yes you could fit a Cox 15 venturi and NVA-the question is WHY?  I'm fairly sure the Webra venturi is bigger than the Cox one (I have a Mach-II and plenty of Cox 15s-so I can measure and check)-MORE to the point-the Webra is German-so the threads on the venturi are metric....the Cox is a US 3/8-32 UNEF thread.....they are not interchangeable!!   The only way it would be possible-without permanently altering the engine would be by making a double M-F threaded adaptor...with metric threads on the outside and US threads on the inside....and I doubt there is sufficient difference in the threaded diameters of the Mach-1 venturi and the Cox 15 venturi to make this approach either feasible or practical...you would need a wall thickness of at least 1mm in the adapter to allow for the thread valleys on either side-and even then it would be extreme fragile.

Again I return to my original advice-use the engine as it is, keep it as a fairly rare collector's item in its own right, or sell it...but there is no useful outcome to be achieved by trying to modify it to take Cox parts.

As for the 9x4 prop-that is quite a good size and it will certainly fly models on that...you could even go as far as a 10x4 to help you get it started on your first attempts, gradually reducing the prop size as you gain more experience with starting and setting the engine. If you read the engine test link I provided, it starts by providing a very good summary of diesel operation, for the benefit of US and NA readers.  The actual engine had been out about 4 years on the market by the time the review was published in MAN in 1968-the same review appeared in the UK 'Model Aircraft ' magazine several years earlier-in June 1964:  http://sceptreflight.com/Model%20Engine%20Tests/Webra%20Mach%20II%20%282%29.html

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Post  ffkiwi Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:19 pm

Well count me absolutely FLABBERGASTED! In response to davidll1984's query above-I've just tried a Cox TD 15 venturi in the Webra Mach-II intake....and to my stunned surprise it screws straight in!! This leads me to the conclusion that this is more than coincidental-and that Webra chose to copy the Cox TD 15 intake setup more or less directly. Which in terms of timeline-Cox 15 1961, Webra Mach-II 1964 works out as a reasonably logical possibility. So it looks as if Webra simply copied the TD 15 intake geometry, merely changing from US to their normal metric threads in the process whilst keeping as close as possible to the original dimensions.Now the Webra intake thread is 10mm dia (nominal) so in order for the Cox 3/8"x32 to fit, the thread pitch would have to be the same or so close (a thou or two) to make no odds....so this would then imply that the Mach-II intake thread is M10x 0.8 or similar....now there IS an M10x0.75 metric fine thread in the standard series of metric threads (as distinct from a wildcat thread created by the manufacturer...) so that would be my guess as to what was used...though I have to say M10x0.75 works out at nearly 34 tpi...which is likely to bind on a 32 tpi thread....and I didn't notice any binding when i screwed the Cox venturi into the Mach-II ...

As for bore sizes well I measured MY Mach-II venturi at 4.19mm ID, and the Cox 15 one at 4.16mm....so there is nothing to pick between the two....

And it turns out this serendipitous discovery solves a couple of problems for me...I have a couple of Webra Glostar 3.5cc glows-both R/C...which I have plans to put in a C/L scale twin at some stage...now the std Webra venturi for the Mach-II is also the same as fitted to the Glostar....and impossible to find as a spare these days...so now I can with confidence simply fit a cox TD 15 venturi and NVA to my two Glostars....

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Post  davidll1984 Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:17 pm

Ha fun To hear that .15 cox ventury  the same size To webra and vice versa To cox too ??? Nva threads on webra is it the same threads for neadle ??? If  smaler  possible tunig upgrades ??? And litle bit of color is litle bether look wit gold anodized parts Very Happy now want cox .15 gold nva body for m'y engine Not To run juste look Good
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Post  ffkiwi Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:32 am

Webra needle valve setup entirely different to the Cox one...you could not mix them-though you could use the Webra NVA and needle valve block (they are separate components) with the Cox venturi, and vice versa...but there would be little point in doing so-with a peripheral jet venturi-which both of these are, the size of the NVA is completely irrelevant...providing it can meter an adequate amount of fuel to sustain running-it does not intrude into the venturi so has zero effect on flow through the venturi. The Cox TD 15./Olympic 15/Special 15 NVA is a monobloc unit-the spraybar section is integral with the feed block, only the needle itself is a separate component.

recently replica Webra needle valve assemblies have become available from a UK Ebay vendor (among several other types...) See:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sofindtype=0&_byseller=1&_nkw=&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&_udlo=&_udhi=&_ftrt=901&_ftrv=1&_sabdlo=&_sabdhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=15&_stpos=&_sargn=-1%26saslc%3D1&_salic=1&_fss=1&_fsradio=%26L

specifically look for ebay item: 114441337705

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Post  davidll1984 Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:35 pm

M'y is mach || webra spray bar y want its for torpedo( k&b ).40 nitro m'y mach 2 webra ventury is in Good working condition just look bit scratch just want ventury and nva from .15 tee dee To look Good is it posible To just screws entire ventury setup from cox ??? Did it need chim ??
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Post  davidll1984 Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:42 pm

Nead info on diesel engine irvine .40 and other stuf  - Page 2 Screen20
Its wat y want protection for dust and débris
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Post  davidll1984 Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:47 pm

M'y engine just look ok want Gold an screen for Good look in display Nead info on diesel engine irvine .40 and other stuf  - Page 2 Screen21
Dont have cox. 15 ventury just To try dont want buy if wont fit m'y engine is just for displays if y use wil use oem part dont want risk damage
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Post  ffkiwi Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:15 pm

The problem you will have is FINDING a Cox .15 venturi and NVA....these particular .15's went out of production many years ago-over 50 years ago to be exact....and Cox international do not have any parts for them-they DO have a few parts for the Medallion 15, but not the other .15 models...so Ebay is about your only option for obtaining them...and while they do come up from time to time, this is  a fairly rare occurrence....you could wait several years before seeing a listing.  FWIW the Cox TD 09 venturi and NVA is similarly very hard to find...and Cox International don't stock those parts either!

So yes-you can fit the entire TD 15 venturi and NVA to the Mach-II...IF you can find the parts....  you would probably want to use a gasket below the NVA block to ensure a good seal....I noticed when removing my own Mach-II one yesterday to check the fit of the cox venturi that there was a thin paper gasket on the threaded stem of the Mach-II venturi, located under the needle valve block, where it abuts the crankcase venturi stub inlet.

ChrisM
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PS Mecoa now own the rights to the Webra brand.....and the remaining spare parts inventory. They even show the Mach-II among the range! What they do not do (yet!) is show any spare parts for the Mach-II.....unlike most of the other Webra glow engines......it is quite possible that they do have some spares but have not yet clearly identified them for what they are. This is what has happened with their Fox engines...they are slowly working through the parts identifying what particular engine model they belong to, and listing them in their spares section as they are identified. Its a time consuming job-and I imagine not a high priority for them-so progress in slow! Still worth checking their listing from time to time.


Last edited by ffkiwi on Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:23 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : additional PS info added)
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Post  davidll1984 Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:58 pm

Tink wil Wait for cox. Part To come out on eBay by the time wil atempt To start him and run in plane rc tink of sport model Not sur with one Good model for it ???? Is .15 model ok for Not To large To big ?? Suggestion??
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Post  ffkiwi Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:35 am

What type of model are we talking here-control line? R/C? or F/F? Bear in mind that this engine was aimed fairly and squarely at the C/L team racing and high performance F/F classes when it first appeared on the market. [there was a slightly detuned version made for R/c use-but these are very rare-and used a different cylinder] Note that the engine test(s) make reference to the engine's very high torque and ability to swing very large props at relatively low revs....so you could use it for C/L stunt-or use it in a large F/F or R/C vintage model-(say on a 10x4 or even 11x4) but it would be running well off its maximum power band in that role.

If you wanted a flying test bed for it-and assuming you can fly C/L then something like a medium sized profile stunter flying on 60 foot lines would probably be suitable and not too hectic-likewise a medium sized vintage model-something you'd use about a .29 or .35 average 50's glow engine in. As for R/C-well you would have a bit of an issue with no throttling ability. It is pure guesswork on my part at this point-but given the indications we have already about some minor commonality I would guess that the Webra Glostar 3.5cc throttle was the same one used on the R/C version of the Mach-II-if for no other reason than like the Mach-II venturi, it screws into the intake, rather than the more usual retaining screws or pinch bar current methods of retaining carbs. Glostars are reasonably common on Ebay and elsewhere..

Again I have no idea what the difference in cylinder types is between the std and R/C Mach-II....but if I was to hazard a guess I would say that they probably eliminated the sub piston induction on the R/C cylinder-which would have a deleterious effect on throttling if present on the R/C one. This is also consistent with the reports that the R/C model produced somewhat less power than the standard one-which is only to be expected if you remove SPI from an engine design that already has it. What the effect would be of fitting an R/c throttle to the standard version in place of the venturi would probably manifest in terms of little or no effect on top end power-but an inability to sustain a low idle speed-you might for example find that you could not get a stable idle any lower than perhaps 4000rpm-whereas the 'proper' R/C one might idle at perhaps 2800rpm...[this is all just speculation on my part-but based on known observation of other engine brands with similar issues...]

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Post  germanbuddy Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:32 am

Well , I have 3 COX .15 Tee Dee Venturis ,never mounted never fueld.
Each one sells for 20 USD incl. postage.
Paypal only.

Peter
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Post  davidll1984 Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:19 pm

Model rc 3ch elev ruder aileron y tink of plane wit capacity of flight wit staled engine sport glider tink not use of landing gear landing in long grass like amovible landing gear ?? Witch size wing do y need engine power To weight ratio is made for control Line plane very light y have expérience wit cox size engine from .010 To .15 y have sportsman .15 no god expérience wit .15 size plane y like smal stuf owns .60 great plane pipe g3cub wit flot never fly wit is To big To scary just tune engine litle taxi run on water m'y lake To smal for it .60 is the larger plane y have play wit Not scary of litle .15 just no mutch expérience wit contrôle Line engines on rc plane and dont want To damage engine in crash
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