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"Cox TD .010 with Graupner Silentius free flight model."




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Post  Cox International Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:26 pm

We received about a dozen of these, some marked "igniter", as well a box full of the round part in the picture, labeled "coils".


What is this? Ignite10
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Post  Mark Diedrichs Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:54 pm

Looks like snake oil to me. Maybe a very old step up coil contraption that never worked. My best guess. Mark
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Post  Oldenginerod Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:56 pm

That would be a spark engine ignition coil and what looks like a clockwork timer which probably cuts out the ignition after the set time.  Used to limit free-flight endurance.
The antique (S.A.M.) guys would love that stuff.
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Post  Cox International Fri Nov 13, 2020 5:34 pm

Ah thanks and that's kinda what I figured but was not sure. Got the stuff together with O & R and Forster engines.

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Post  crankbndr Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:48 pm

Those coils won’t last long on eBay, vintage sparkies and tether car guys look for them. There is a way to test them, put about 4 volts on them and run the large wire to tongue. Damn! Damn!
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Post  batjac Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:16 pm

Bernie, I've been in the market for a decently priced coil.  Let us know what you're selling them for.

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Post  GallopingGhostler Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:03 pm

Cox International wrote:We received about a dozen of these, some marked "igniter", as well a box full of the round part in the picture, labeled "coils".

What is this? Ignite10

Nice, I see an old paper covered ignition coil with integral circuit board that has some additional components, probably the condenser (capacitor) and an ignition cut off timer to limit the engine run. Somewhere in the not so distant past, may be 30 years ago, I recalled one of the mail order free flight suppliers having these. It appears to be assembled by someone with electronics know-how, who took some NOS parts and put together something for vintage contest flying like SAM (Society of Antique Modelers), etc. This was most likely for a free flight aircraft, competition or sport. It was probably put together sometime in the 1960's - 1980's given the appearance of the deans R/C flight pack connectors, same as on my 1972 and 1978 Ace Pulse Commander flight pack systems.

I couldn't tell you what it is worth, but you do have something that would be of interest for someone who builds and flies old ignition aircraft. May be someone else who predates me (I am 66 years old going on 67) could fill in with better info. Old Bugger
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Post  sosam117 Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:15 pm

Bernie,
What you have there is the ignition system for the Ohlsson & Rice (O&R), Forster, and Brown Jr. sparkie engines.
The "Texas Old Timer" is a two stage timer. One is to set the length of the engine run and the 2nd part of the timer is to "DT" (dethermalize) and have the stab pop up, to bring the plane down after a certain time. To keep it close to the field.
The black center with red ends is the coil for the spark ignition engines.
The alligator clip clips to the spark plug (not a glow plug!).
The other wire is grounded to the engine mounting lug.(black wire with eyelet connector).
The last connectors (coming from the coil) should be connected to a 4 cell (4.8 volt) Nicad pack.

You can get all the information on ignition systems you'll ever need on the SAM web site at antiquemodeler.org.
http://www.antiquemodeler.org/

Click on "How to - engines". You can find the original wiring diagram for just coil and condenser, or the more reliable modern transistorized systems, plus explanation of how a coil operates etc.

Larry Davidson makes newer transistorized ignition systems for the sparkie engines. Not many use the old coil.
Email Larry Davidson for more info,  samchamp@jetbroadband.com

I belong to SAM (Society of Antique Modelers)

They fly the old "Sparkie" engines like the Brown Jr. and others. I like using the diesels engines myself.
Larry Davidson makes coils and condensers (newer) for those old spark ignition engines.

They have their own chat list at:
samtalk_forum@yahoogroups.com
You'll have to sign up to email the group and get approved.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SAM_Talk/info

Ask your question on the SAM Talk group?
You can also got to facebook and get info there from SAM members (and buyers)
If you have a Facebook account go to “groups” and do a search for “Society of Antique Modelers”. Once you are there just click on the ”Join Group” button. That should do it for you.
Here is the link:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/154430811293982/


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SAM member 3556
Joined SAM in 1993 (I'm 62 years old)


Cox International wrote:We received about a dozen of these, some marked "igniter", as well a box full of the round part in the picture, labeled "coils".


What is this? Ignite10
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Post  getback Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:19 am

crankbndr wrote:Those coils won’t last long on eBay, vintage sparkies and tether car guys look for them. There is a way to test them, put about 4 volts on them and run the large wire to tongue. Damn! Damn!
Damn i was wondering ho0w to  lol! lol! lol!
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Post  Cox International Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:05 am

Thanks everyone for the info, very helpful Smile Given the amount of items we have to list (2 pallets full), we don't really have the time to do in-depth research.

We have about a dozen of these beasts. Most were labelled … something … followed by the word "system". Unfortunately we rush-unpacked everything and threw away the description; now realizing they may not all be identical.

There is also a separate box of coils and we will have to figure out what is reasonable pricing. eBay auction may be useful in this case but Batjac and others may be in a position to make a suggestion.
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Post  getback Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:08 pm

tHanks Bernie got your email , may would bee interested in a coil and some wiring for a Brown Jr. Eric
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Post  Cox International Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:20 pm

getback wrote:tHanks Bernie got your email , may would bee interested in a coil and some wiring for a Brown Jr. Eric

I believe the labeling was specific for engines but not sure. Now that the labels are gone, we would have no idea what goes with what engine but perhaps that's not important.

I think that we will run a couple of auctions and see what questions, if any, are asked and where pricing falls; which would be less for anyone buying directly from us.

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Post  Cox International Mon Nov 30, 2020 4:36 pm

So we put one of those little beasts up for auction to see where market pricing is. Once we have an idea what that is, we can offer to sell directly at reduced pricing, coils only and coil / timer systems.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/224258473060
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Post  FLOYD CARTER Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:17 pm

No. Not. "snake oil". This is a Model TIM-5, made by Aero Ply Research Co, (Look carefully on the printed circuit board for the logo "A.P.R.". The coil is a new Modelectric coil, for model use. The circuit board with components was made by me. Also in the photo is a mechanical timer made by Texas Timers. The TIM-5 is a near-complete spark ignition unit for model engines. It only reqjres a battery of 3.6V NiCd or 3.7V LiPo.

My company, Aero Ply Research Co, was in operation from 1980 until about 2015. This Model TIM -5 was then marketed by Larry Davidson, although I continued to make the TIM-5 for Larry's retail business.

The TIM-5 was discontinued when the owner of Modelectric, Stan Nadler, ceased production of coils.

For further information I am at
floydecarter@gmail.com
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Post  GallopingGhostler Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:14 am

Welcome to the forum, Floyd, glad to finally meet the talented electronics designer. I myself don't have ignition engines, although others here do. I forget where I saw your ignition systems, but do recall seeing them some time back from a free flight supplier, may be through or pointed by the ancient Peck Polymers catalog.

About a year may be 2 back, I picked up an NOS retro-kit off the Bay of the 1941 year 66-inch span Vanguard 66 Class C F/F by AJ's Free Flight Service, originally by Advanced Engineering Co., Fresno, CA. Interestingly enough, the kit seems to be an exact reproduction down to the printed, not die cut sheet wood for ribs, flight surface tips and fuselage bulkheads. It kind of reminds me of the die printed Comet rubber powered kits (Ed Lidgard's Sparky for example) I built 55 years ago as an adolescent, except larger.

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=4963

What is this? 496310

I noticed it originally had an ignition engine. It must have been a neat time to grow up in, model building and flight activities that is.

With the current FAA direction of clamping down on R/C activities though, I don't know if hobbyist R/C activity in US has a future.

- George
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Post  getback Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:05 am

Hey Floyd good to hear from you and the history you bring us , i was thinking the old coils not the one shown only need 2.0V to a sparky , anyway here it is George https://modelflight.com/product/coils-light-and-small/ Snowman
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Post  Cox International Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:08 am

FLOYD CARTER wrote:No. Not. "snake oil".  This is a Model TIM-5, made by Aero Ply Research Co,  (Look carefully on the printed circuit board for the logo "A.P.R.". The coil is a new Modelectric coil, for model use.  The circuit board with components  was made by me.  Also in the photo is a mechanical timer made by Texas Timers.  The TIM-5 is a near-complete spark ignition unit for model engines.  It only reqjres a battery of 3.6V NiCd or 3.7V LiPo.

My company, Aero Ply Research Co, was in operation from 1980 until about 2015.  This Model TIM -5 was then marketed by Larry Davidson, although I continued to make the TIM-5 for Larry's retail business.

The TIM-5 was discontinued when the owner of Modelectric, Stan Nadler,  ceased production of coils.

For further information I am at
floydecarter@gmail.com

That is very interesting Floyd and thanks for sharing Smile

The one we have listed on eBay does not have "APR" markings but others we have do so. Some have APR on the circuit board and Asbury Park on the coil. Some have the circuit board attached to the coils; others are connected by wires.

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Post  Cox International Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:11 am

batjac wrote:Bernie, I've been in the market for a decently priced coil.  Let us know what you're selling them for.

The Sparky Mark and the Funky Bunch

Mark,

If you could contact me either toll-free 1-877-769-1779 or email support@coxengines.com to let us know what it is that you would like, we can figure out pricing that works for both parties.
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Post  Cox International Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:14 am

getback wrote:tHanks Bernie got your email , may would bee interested in a coil and some wiring for a Brown Jr. Eric

Eric,

If you could contact me either toll-free 1-877-769-1779 or email support@coxengines.com to let us know what it is that you would like, we can figure out pricing that works for both parties.
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Post  FLOYD CARTER Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:07 pm

Bernie. If you or anyone needs hook-up or operating information on these coils, or the Model TIM-5, contact me and I will provide help.
floydecarter@gmail.com

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Post  Cox International Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:27 pm

FLOYD CARTER wrote:Bernie.  If you or anyone needs hook-up or operating information on these coils, or the Model TIM-5, contact me and I will provide help.
floydecarter@gmail.com


That is awesome Floyd; thanks so much ! Very Happy
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Post  944_Jim Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:23 pm

Somebody please give Mr. Floyd a greenie!
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