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Public response to a post critical of, Cox, us and Ex Model Engines Empty Public response to a post critical of, Cox, us and Ex Model Engines

Post  Cox International Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:11 pm



For clarification, this is in response to a member post in this thread: https://www.coxengineforum.com/t15028-great-news


Gary,

We are sorry that you are disappointed with our performance and please permit us to publicly address your concerns.

There is nothing “stupid” in investing in a nostalgia-based hobby (I used to collect antique firearms) but one must be aware that, by doing so, one may face challenges acquiring parts that have not been manufactured for decades.

In our opinion there no hassle whatsoever purchasing parts from us and EXM and no different than purchasing from within your country. You place an order online, pay for it and we ship within one business day via Canada Post Small Packet Air.

“Normal” transit times from Canada to Australia are in the 2–4-week range, depending on delivery address and backlog in Australian Customs. However, these days with Covid-19, nothing seems normal anymore and we are experiencing transit times to your country in the 1-3 month range, whereas this is beyond our control.

We only charge US$ 9.95 shipping to International destinations and Canada Post charges us CA$ 11. For this shipping cost you can purchase an unlimited amount of parts in the same order (exceptions for the electric starter and both deluxe accessory kits); whereas we absorb the extra shipping cost for large(r) orders. For packages under 5mm thickness, we only charge $2.95, as we are then able to use CPC “Lettermail”.

For buyers that wish a more expedited service we offer, amongst other alternatives, service via DHL; with transit times of 3 days to the USA and 7-10 days worldwide. Yes, those services are expensive, despite our 55% discount that we get with DHL, but pricing is set by the transport companies and we do not mark up shipping. Our shipping costs are always disclosed up front and it was your choice to choose DHL for at least one of your orders.

As we generally only declare CA$ 15 per order, there should not be any issues with Customs; although we have no control over whether Customs decides to open a package and reassess. This is a rare occurrence. If one or more of our packages are not delivered, we take responsibility for this.

Not sure why you deem us to be manipulating the Cox market. We operate multiple online Cox stores and apportion our inventory between them and juggle this inventory between the stores, depending on what sells in which store.

For items where we have exceptionally large quantities in stock, we often only list 100 or so per store because it is unlikely that someone will purchase more than 100. When listed inventory gets low, we add to listed quantity.

We have every single Tee Dee 049 part for sale, except the needle valve body. We sometimes find some, list them and generally sell only about 3-4 per month. If we had to manufacture them, we would need to make at least 500 to obtain a reasonable per-piece price; so it is unlikely that we would manufacture any.

We have delisted Surestart cylinders as we are conserving what is left to build engines. We still have a number of TD ones left and are presently sourcing vendors that can manufacture more for us. Pistons we have lots in stock.

049 regular as well as Killer Bee cranks we have in large quantities. 020 TD and 049 TD cranks we get from EXM in tiny quantities (3-5 at a time), so those will perpetually show as low stock or no stock. 15 Medallion cranks we received about 50 from someone in your country and we only have 5 left. Once sold, that will be it.

Reeds are readily available, as we manufacture them. We have thousands of steel reeds left; contained in backplate assemblies that we have not had time to part out and, since they are poor sellers, are dedicating our time to other projects. However, just let us know how many that you would like, and we will make them available to you.

We are quite low on glow heads and will likely soon delist the “3-packs” to slow down sales on those. We have experienced an extraordinary and unusual demand for these and have ordered another 3,000 a few days ago. However, we will not list anything before we have it in stock, as we do not do “backorders”. That is simply taking people’s money and not being able to deliver.

In parting, Gary, we would like to point out that we are but a 2-person operation; whereas EXM is a (part-time) one man show. Neither EXM or us can manufacture and stock thousands of different parts in multi-year quantities, as that exceeds our available capital.

Personally, I am 62 years old and bought out the remaining Cox inventory a dozen years ago; not knowing if my venture would even pay itself off. It was a leap-of-faith but it turned out ok in the end, whereas we manufacture many dozens of parts.

Some parts we manufactured 10 years ago, we still have over half of the stock because they are poor sellers; so we just cannot manufacture indiscriminately and prefer to concentrate on manufacturing what we think (hope) will sell.

It is a bit discouraging to hear your advice to others to avoid “Cox” and we would presume that a large portion of our over 11,000 customers may not agree with this.

Happy Easter!


Last edited by Cox International on Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:43 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Clarification)
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Post  sosam117 Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:12 pm

I would like to thank you (Bernie) and Matt for making Cox parts available.
They are not in it to become millionaires, but to supply the Cox engine lovers with available parts.

It is getting rare to find any small company (cottage) that has not gone out of business?
I think they are doing a great job suppling what Cox parts are available!
And scrounging around to find more available parts.

It is like what happened to the Toledo Expo.

First one I went to was in the Toledo Sports Arena (1981) and every one until 2018 (The Expo Center).
One thing I noticed over the years were the number of vendors that were there year after year.
The worst year I saw was in 2007. There were enough vendors but no people?
The 2007 was the slow fall of the Toledo show (vendors and crowds).
Less and less vendors, then the number of people were getting less and less.

My local hobby shop that my dad and I went to for years (1974 to 2001) closed in 2010

So, I applaud Bernie and Matt on the job that they are doing.
And I will purchase from them because they are doing what the can with the stock they have "on hand".

The saying goes "nothing lasts forever?"


Thank you! Bernie and Matt
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Post  Kim Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:00 pm

HOLY CATS!!!!

I'm surprised and amazed that any of this even has to be said.  Bernie and Matt's participation and enthusiasm AND SUPPORT (in Prize Engines and Parts) of our great hobby is totally beyond reproach!

For better than a decade, these guys (and Theresa!)'s labor of love has allowed untold numbers of Cox Fans to acquire and service these wonderful little castor slingers, and let us keep them in the air!

I truly don't understand any accusation of "manipulation" aimed a these fine people, and am REALLY thankful that they took the gamble (backed up by hard work) to supply us with engines and equipment that very well might have ended up in a landfill somewhere.

This smacks strongly of a former member of the .049 Collectors Group who was constantly hurling insults and crazy accusations (while puffing about himself), to the point that he was finally canned by the Admin.  If you don't like the stuff, don't buy it---simple as that---but to insult good people doing good work is the portrait of a self-hater.

DITTO:
Thank you! Bernie and Matt!!!!!!!!!!!

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Post  Marleysky Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:27 pm

THANK YOU BERNIE AND MATT

I was going to respond to the member who published a negative tirade on “Cox”Items.  Bernie, your response was more inline  to the complaining being made. I looked at the OP profile and has only been a member of this group only 7 months or so, he may not have experienced the friendship, camaraderie and generosity of the members and your customers.  Hopefully, he will understand that your “Good News” posting was just one of a few good April Fools pranks that have been published over the years of our existence here on the Cox Engine Forum. As you indicated, your 2 person, and Matts 1 person operations have provided more fun and  enjoyment for those who chose to continue playing with the “Cox” brand and related hobbys, we couldn’t do it without you.
Thanks!
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Post  Admin Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:35 pm

I remember the old Cox Hobby Distributors site when they were still owned by Estes. I remember watching each engine and part go out of stock and drop off the site, knowing it's probably the last time I'll see those engines and parts offered new. Before Matt, Bernie, and the other few stepped in, the old Cox site was down to selling just the SureStart and cast case engine for $6.99 each. It was great to get such a great deal, the glow head alone was worth more than the engine... but you knew that this was a clearance sale, when they're gone, they're gone.

I'm thankful for Cox International and Ex Model Engines. They continue to work to bring us new and exciting parts and accessories for our engines. You could only imagine what would've happened to the remaining stock of Cox parts if these guys didn't step in and save it all.

Easter Bunny

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Post  Levent Suberk Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:09 pm

Thank you Bernie and Matt for friendly customer service. Thumbs Up cheers
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Post  1/2A Nut Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:35 pm

Thank you Matt and Bernie you both have been a blessing to the hobby!! Clapping

Small Cox Logo Beer Cheers Fireworks  Thumbs Up
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Post  Cribbs74 Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:22 pm

Was the post made here or elsewhere? Admin may have pulled it, but I don’t see it anywhere.
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Post  Oldenginerod Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:35 pm

@Cribbs74 wrote:Was the post made here or elsewhere? Admin may have pulled it, but I don’t see it anywhere.
Under the "Great News" topic Ron.
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Post  Cribbs74 Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:35 pm

Nevermind. I found it. Very strange. Looks like the poster Has left the building. Weird...

A lot goes on when I am at work apparently.
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Post  NEW222 Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:29 pm

Thank you very much to both you Bernie, and Matt for all that you and your staff do for us in this little corner of the hobby. As well, I would also like to thank Jacb for hosting such a great site as well.
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Post  MauricioB Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:07 am

you who are in a hurry:
Why make so much trouble when it comes to a hobby ??? ...
Waiting a month, two or three and more, waiting for something nice, is not the same as being forced to wait.
If one day someone is unhealthy, then they will realize that many things were not so important and that they could wait.
One day God will teach you the lesson and you will want to wait again and again, not criticize and put your best will, in something that you put makes you happy, a hobby.
A hobby…. Do you know how many people just waited for crumbs to eat? Well, you don't know….
Enjoy, you are blessed in choosing what to do, in doing a hobby and in waiting.
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Post  getback Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:47 am

Well this has been weird But anyway , i would like to see Gary's Thousands of dollars worth of Cox engines /stuff he says he has ?! I will go with Thanks Matt and Bernie Too !! Happy April Fools with a bunny this year Easter Bunny Very Happy This Site Rocks! I Love This Forum!
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Post  Oldenginerod Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:13 am

I'm kind of regretting responding to Gary. I must have hit a nerve. If he was just having us on (April fool), I doubt that he would have disabled his account like that.
I will admit, I wasn't quite sure whether he was being serious or not regarding the way our Cox resellers do their business. I certainly can't see any reason to doubt their integrity or business practices. I've pretty much been able to buy whatever Cox parts that I've needed to keep my multitude of Cox engines running. While I don't like it, postage cost has always been a bugbear for me so far away from the action, but if I want something, that's a burden I have to bear. Interestingly, Gary mentioned the better option as being to stick with his 2.5cc OS engine. Well, if he wants to talk hard to find and expensive parts, I searched over a year to find an overpriced second hand crankshaft to suit mine. Eventually found one in Eastern Europe. Cost me more than the engine, but if I wanted a running engine, that's what I had to do. Any hobby costs money. If you need to think so seriously about what it costs you, find a cheaper hobby!
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Post  Kim Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:24 am

@MauricioB wrote:you who are in a hurry:
Why make so much trouble when it comes to a hobby ??? ...
Waiting a month, two or three and more, waiting for something nice, is not the same as being forced to wait.
If one day someone is unhealthy, then they will realize that many things were not so important and that they could wait.
One day God will teach you the lesson and you will want to wait again and again, not criticize and put your best will, in something that you put makes you happy, a hobby.
A hobby…. Do you know how many people just waited for crumbs to eat? Well, you don't know….
Enjoy, you are blessed in choosing what to do, in doing a hobby and in waiting.

Wise words, Mauricio.
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Post  roddie Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:02 am

It's a shame that this had to happen. Sometimes people lash-out when they're in pain. I don't know if that's the case here.. but it could be.
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Post  944_Jim Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:48 am

@Admin wrote:Before Matt, Bernie, and the other few stepped in...(edited for brevity) You could only imagine what would've happened to the remaining stock of Cox parts if these guys didn't step in and save it all.
Easter Bunny

Easy enough...what happened to the remaining OK Engines? No Matt or Bernie to track, trap, and release to the wild...one piece at a time over years...hopefully.at their own profit.

As a consumer of antiqueties and curator of a small, private transportation museum (that is, a small collection of legitimately registered/operable motor vehicles), I can appreciate only on a small scale what it takes to jump in to something with NO GUARANTEE of future profitability, nor plan for disposal "at the end of my career." I dread the day gasoline is priced and available like nitromethane. Yet, I continue to keep these relics moving.

The best way to thank our suppliers is to continue to patronize their efforts, wares.
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Post  KariFS Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:53 am

@roddie wrote:It's a shame that this had to happen. Sometimes people lash-out when they're in pain. I don't know if that's the case here.. but it could be.

That’s a very good point Roddie. Stress, lockdowns, other troubles... they tend to bring out the worst in people. Seen it happen over and over again at work, and not 100% immune to it myself either. I hope he’s all right.
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Post  Kim Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:30 pm

@KariFS wrote:
@roddie wrote:It's a shame that this had to happen. Sometimes people lash-out when they're in pain. I don't know if that's the case here.. but it could be.

That’s a very good point Roddie. Stress, lockdowns, other troubles... they tend to bring out the worst in people. Seen it happen over and over again at work, and not 100% immune to it myself either. I hope he’s all right.

Very well could have been...and I hope that he might reconsider re-upping with us, as I can honestly say that this is one of THE most forum of friends on the internet.
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Post  Cox International Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:33 pm

Judging by the tenor of a multitude of emails between Gary and ourselves, his post was unfortunately not an April fool's joke.

Because this was a publicly visible post, we felt that we had to stand up for ourselves, for Matt from EXM and for the brand itself. It was challenging to write our response but, had we not responded, it may have been interpreted as a sign of acquiescence.

However, one does not know what preceded his post and what is going on in his life. Perhaps himself, a loved one or a friend of his is facing great challenges. Moving forward, we urge everyone to show kindness and empathy to Gary and not judge a person from a single post.

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Post  EXModelEngines Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:41 pm

Thanks to all for the kind words in many of the replies in this thread. I'd like to offer a few words in addition to what has been noted about daily operations. shipping, and the future of parts and availability for Cox engines and parts.

We are a small shop, the smallest that one can have with a single employee (myself). Occasionally, when it it very busy I enlist the help of family and friends to fulfill orders and assist with assembly. All of the technical assembly, rebuilds, troubleshooting, etc. is done by me.

Shipping rates continue to be a thorn for both sellers and buyers. 95% of items are shipped via USPS first class (or priority upgrade depending upon weight) domestically and USPS first class international for international shipments. With the recent addition of fuel sales these are shipped via UPS ground due to hazmat requirements and only available for domestic shipment.

In general (excluding fuel) parcel rates have remained at $3.95 for USA and $13.95 internationally, both as a 'flat' rate. These are in the process of being adjusted slightly due to yet another increase in rates which we have been subsidizing. The 'flat' rate style will continue.

Transit times, usually 3 to 5 business days for USA and 6 to 10 business days internationally have dragged out as a result of COVID most impacted internationally. Some international shipments have taken up to 60 business days to reach their location depending upon volumes and worker availability. We have been seeing some improvements but longer-times remain. Shipping upgrades are always available upon request and actual costs for their journeys are charged.

There are currently no plans to discontinue sale of engines or related parts in the foreseeable future. Additionally, we have worked to expand our line of offerings and most recently a 'test-run' of fuel for sale. I have a few thoughts on some additional products that are currently in development which I hope to share soon. These will be performance focused and aimed at limited numbers where we can control it.

As Bernie noted, and I share the sentiment, this is somewhat of a niche market and capital is extremely limited. Oftentimes parts are produced 'on-spec' and there is a certain 'leap of faith' even if it is a much requested item. Also, a lot of these parts in their heyday were manufactured in runs of hundreds of thousands of pieces, whereas the market is only able to support manufacturing of new parts in the thousand (and less range) which results in a greater capital outlay on a per-part basis.

Matt
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Post  batjac Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:07 pm

@Cox International wrote:

Some parts we manufactured 10 years ago, we still have over half of the stock because they are poor sellers; so we just cannot manufacture indiscriminately and prefer to concentrate on manufacturing what we think (hope) will sell.

Happy Easter!

Cool!  I guess that means Cox International will be open until at least 2031!

I was always amazed at the initial investment that Bernie must have made in acquiring so much stock for what it really a very small hobby segment.  I don't know how many years he had to work CI for the initial investment to pay for itself, but I'm certainly glad he did.  I have spent wayyyyy too much with Bernie and Matt on Cox stuff.  But it's better than spending the money on cigarettes or alcohol.  Spending it on women would have been a good investment, but I don't think my wife would agree...

Although, of all the April Fool's pranks pulled on me, I'd have to say Bernie's was the cruellest.  I was all set to PayPal him $100.00 to help with storage costs for all the new stuff. Sad
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Post  wimpyv6 Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:42 pm

So, I guess I'm doubly stupid. Not only have I accumulated Cox car parts for years but also have two old Buicks that needed parts. I always thought I was having fun. Try finding a nos horn bar for a 63-65 Riviera wood steering wheel. But I digress.

Without Bernie's help, my pile of Cox would still be a pile of parts instead of an incessant noise irritant to the neighbors whether on a tether or on the track. All that collecting finally came together last year. Thank you Bernie.

thanks, len.
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Post  davidll1984 Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:24 pm

Me too without you would be almost impossible to recondition engines to give them a second life I have since found several ways to modify these little mechanical wonders Am I ready to share my invention so that others can also build better cars plane boat we need a good system to reduce noise emissions, not just silencing but also giving power more cooling i have parts Idea of shares som of m'y desing wit you I am even ready to make parts for those interested in new color
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