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Post  NEW222 Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:52 pm

Whole surfing online I came across this ad. Looks very nice and not badly priced either I think for what it really is.
Never Seen This Before Medallion Screen11
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Post  getback Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:35 pm

Well thats cool would like to hear it run , wonder where he got the conversion kit at . Small Cox Logo Santa
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Post  NEW222 Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:17 pm

I wondered that too. It also must have been some good workmanship to install it as well, as I don't know anything about sparkies, but think there is more to it than just slapping it onto any engine.
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Post  getback Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:26 pm

Yeah , where does he get the lobe to break the points when it goes round ? Rudolph
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Post  germanbuddy Sat Dec 18, 2021 5:03 pm

@NEW222 wrote:I wondered that too. It also must have been some good workmanship to install it as well, as I don't know anything about sparkies, but think there is more to it than just slapping it onto any engine.

Not sure , but I believe you will need a coil, condenser + some Volts to work this tiny spark plug. Never used a sparky in my life , only Diesels and Glows.
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Post  fredvon4 Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:04 pm

Only really two ways to open the circuit an initiate a spark: A primary field collapse via points, or Hall Effect magnet to a CDI (capacitive Discharge Inductor)-- of the two I suspect Hall effect magnet as the photo seems lot big enough front end to house even a very dinky set of points.  Of course every body knows there are current production spark plugs that fit normal Glow plug hole

How a coil works and all the electronic physics is amazing to learn and understand.... especially magnetos and timing in 10,000+ HP top fuel dragsters

really mind blowing is getting head wrapped around explosions pre second (RPM), reed or valve opening and closing, fuel flow,  of ultra high RPM racing engines

Speed of rising or falling piston in a very small engine and fact that every cycle the piston comes to full stop then accelerated the opposite direction....all easy to calculate in a 20,000 RPM .049 and astounding....do the math on a 43,000 RPM short stroke small engine will blow your mind

once apron a time I had a racing cart with twin McCullagh MAC 101B engines each had to be tuned to sync. Top RPM 39,700...these were over square I.E bore bigger than stroke.....we cheated and ran very high nitro (45~75%) with additives to mix with castor and Methanol...very wicked acceleration ...well until I got lifetime ban....grin


Last edited by fredvon4 on Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:12 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add a memory)
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Post  NEW222 Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:04 pm

@fredvon4 wrote:once apron a time I had a racing cart with twin McCullagh MAC 101B engines each had to be tuned to sync. Top RPM 39,700...these were over square I.E bore bigger than stroke.....we cheated and ran very high nitro (45~75%) with additives to mix with castor and Methanol...very wicked acceleration ...well until I got lifetime ban....grin

Oh, I can just imagine the story. Very Happy
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Post  944_Jim Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:12 pm

That Medallion looks cute, but it isn't worth that kind of money to me. Unless the seller supplies a coil, sparkplug lead, batteries and condenser, someone's wallet is in a world of hurt buyng the rest of the ignition system!


Last edited by 944_Jim on Sun Dec 19, 2021 4:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post  NEW222 Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:09 am

Yes, I understand. As I do not know whatever else is needed, I was not even thinking of it, but in general thought that whoever did it up till this point appears to have done a good job, and probably had good intentions.
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Post  rsv1cox Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:23 am

That is a pretty thing, and the modification looks well intergrated. Wonder where he got it. Doesn't look vintage more like current manufacture.
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Post  sosam117 Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:38 am

I was given two glow engines converted to spark engines.
One is an Arden .099 and the other is a McCoy .098.

Here are the engines:
Never Seen This Before Medallion 01_ard12

Here is the photo of the Arden .099:
Never Seen This Before Medallion 01_ard13
Never Seen This Before Medallion 02_ard11

Now photos of the McCoy .098:
With instructions on how to start the engine
Never Seen This Before Medallion 01_mcc14
Never Seen This Before Medallion 02_mcc13
Never Seen This Before Medallion 03_mcc11
Never Seen This Before Medallion 04_mcc11
Never Seen This Before Medallion 05_mcc11

I purchased the electronic ignition equipment from Larry Davidson and other misc. parts from him.
The equipment from Larry with shipping came to over $200.00

Currently, the engines and ignition equipment are in their boxes with the engines.
I doubt that I'll ever run them after I went to a friend's house and he showed me his O&R engine and started it and ran it for me.
He was also kind enough to have me try to start his O&R sparkie. It took me a while to figure it out and get it running?
Retard the points (but not too much) prime the engine (again - not too much), hand flip it (and hope it pops), If it doesn't advance the points a little til it does. Keep playing whit the points til it catches and starts running. adjust the needle (maybe) and as the engine warms up advance the points some more to almost max RPM. And check the needle valve setting to make sure it not to lean.( or rich).

Getting that sparkie to run was way too much work for me!
I'd rather play around with 6 diesel engines before I'll do another sparkie.

Probably why glow engines took off?

One more thing. The fuel.
You have to make your own mixture of fuel.
I think it's white gas and 70 or 80 weight oil but I don't know the percentages? Not my area of expertise.

There is one positive with running a sparkie now-a-days over years ago.
The batteries to run the spark is smaller and lighter and the electronic ignition system that you can get over the coil and condenser.
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Post  944_Jim Sun Dec 19, 2021 4:14 am

Sosam,
I think your little spark engines are so cute! And I think you are right about why glow engines became so common. Who wants to carry all that weight of points, coil, condenser, batteries if they don't have to? However, I'm not so sure I agree with the claim that newer electronic ignitions can negate the need for a coil (maybe I misunderstood what you wrote?).

I think you'll find even late electronic ignition systems must use a coil(s). Ignition coils have gotten smaller, and in some cases sit right on the plugs. But I know of no engine with sparkplugs that does not have coils too.

My own Triumph TR6 uses a hybrid points/electronic ignition coil-switching function that does not require a condenser, but I left it in the distributor for the possibility that the electronic module dies and I drive home on a more traditional points/condenser system (twice in the fifteen years I've been using it).
Ford's early 90's TFI ignition module requires a digital on/off to signal when to fire the coil. The same module will work the coil just fine without the condenser as the module handles all coil operations internally (automatic dwell control, auto-off if the engine isn't turning, enhanced points life due to minimal current across the points). The points supply same digital on/off for timing purposes only. The module handles all current loads required by the coil/plugs. (See http://www.gofastforless.com/ignition/tfi.htm for details).

My lawnmower has a coil, and the electronic switching is handled integral to the coil (built-in), with the timing triggered by hall-effect from a magnetic pin in the flywheel passing the coil's pickup/trigger. No ponts...but where there is spark, there is coil. Older engines running magneto ignition still have coils. Capacitative Discharge Ignition (CDI) still use coils to fire sparkplugs.

I guess what I am saying is that you have to have a coil to spark the plug. How the coil is triggered is just as you say...getting smaller, and fed by less amps/volts. But the coil still needs to be in the vehicle.

Don't get me wrong, please. I admire the Hacked Medallion, and appreciate the work involved. I'd love to see/hear/smell a sparkie model engine run too. Hit-n-Miss antique engines are fun to watch too! Their primitive "cooling systems" absolutely captivate me while they dump combustion temps via processing water to steam, with some having no radiator/thermostat and only water jackets and reservoirs!

I do have to ask though (not trying to be antagonistic, just curious)...why would anyone want to convert a glow engine back the other way? I would think it would be easiest to buy an antique sparkie and call the job done.
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Post  sosam117 Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:14 am

Yes Jim, you are correct.
There still is a coil in the sparkie system.
Larry Davidson has them very small and light weight.
Here is a link to his website if anyone is interested?

https://modelflight.com/product/coils-light-and-small/

You can get everything you need for your sparkie engine.
The hi tension lead (with or without resistor) $5.25 / $7.50
Solid state ignition unit -- $25.20
Ignition cutoff w/solid state ignition unit combined -- $42.00
Larry's small and light weight coil -- $42.00
Spark plug -- $26.25 (each)
Possible spark plug adapter? -- $5.25

Glass syringes for your sparkie fuel -- $14.75 --- $19.95

Now for the other items you need to get somewhere else:
A 5-amp micro switch
One - 3.7-volt lipo cell that is 500 to 800 Mah. make sure you know how to properly charge a single cell lipo.
3-pin polarized dean connector for the battery pack to plug into your sparkie ignition system.

Here is how to setup the ignition system from Larry Davidson's website.
https://modelflight.com/resources/ignition-set-up-with-solid-state-ignition-units/
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Post  davidll1984 Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:58 pm

I believed that the batry had to be connected with the two cables of the control line In the old days but I don't know anything about these engines Huh...
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Post  fredvon4 Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:49 pm

Thanks Sosam your photos say my opining above abut small enough points was dead wrong
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Post  944_Jim Sun Dec 19, 2021 2:14 pm

Sosam,
Thanks for the links and pricing!
I'll look into Mr. Davidson's wares a little later today. I assume the electronic ignition module is in effect a trigger stabilizer to be used much like I use the Ford TFI module. My interest lies in the module's use as such in my 1965 Honda S-90. The bike is 6 volts...the Ford module is built for 12-volt systems. I haven't deciphered the points-to-electronic conversions for Outdoor Power Equipment (lawnmowers/string trimmers/chainsaws). They are basically an ice-cube size block with IC chips. But I don't know how they spark at the right time (the part I need to look into for my Honda S-90 motorcycle).

David,
The power-down-the lines thing is from earlier electric flight. A battery was worn by the pilot in a satchel to power the motor. The primary constraint was driven by size of plane/motor vs how much power could be sent to the airframe.
True gas engine/spark ignition flight was in the days of bigger free flight models that could carry the mass of an ignition system. As the technology became smaller, it was used on CL planes. I don't remember seeing spark-ignition and RC in use together, nor do I think I've seen plans for such, but I imagine it happened. Humans can be pretty creative!
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Post  getback Sun Dec 19, 2021 2:28 pm

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Post  NEW222 Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:29 pm

Wow. Thanks all for your time and input. I never thought that there was so much other stuff / parts involved to run a little spark ignition engine. I can now clearly see why these were not as popular.
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Post  Ken Cook Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:55 pm

On the contrary, they were extremely popular because that's all you had until 1948. Diesels had a bit of a heyday but they stink and most don't want to deal with that. In reality, there really wasn't many parts, batteries, coil and condenser. I have Larry Davidson's solid state coil (No condenser), I use it with O&R engines. Essentially one flip starts using glow fuel. It actually starts even easier on regular gas.
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Post  fredvon4 Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:48 pm

Ken beat me to it....nostalgia wise sparkles, Even for us glow plug kids, are just fun to dork around with on the bench if not inclined to build an accommodating old skool airplane or boat

Gas and 70 weight oil, get started, open exhaust bark, tweak to scream, or retard to misfire thumpa thumpa thumpa

wear ear plugs....great phun
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Post  Yabby Sat Dec 25, 2021 11:39 am

I think by "Solid State" coil, Ken means CDI, coils driven by a CDI do not need a condenser as there are no points. The condenser is used to soak up the huge fluctuations when points make and brake so as to not burn them out. You can use points and a coil without a condenser but your points wont last long. A genuine coil is about as analogue an electrical device you could find. Just about anyone who was anyone had a 'Law' attributed to them in respect to coils. Faraday, Lenz, Hertz,Joseph Henry, maybe even Tesla. :-).

For general model flying I believe a glow plug is the best compromise. CDI with a coil gives you the ability to control ignition timing and you can change the timing dependent on many factors inclusive of;temperature, humidity, fuel octane, where you want the power in the curve,...............To take advantage of this properly you need genuine carburetors like Mikuni Power-jets not just a spray bar and needle. CDI units are bloody notorious for problems in high vibration applications, and the higher the density of the coils driving the plugs the more likely they are to start developing the old break down under peak load problems.

dont get me wrong CDI and high density coils with very good plugs are amazing compared to points which are just hit and miss engine tuning devices. Lol. But I personally believe a good glow plug and away we go. not much to go wrong, works in most required modes for models.

I do agree though that the engine looks amazing and is an awesome piece of engineering and there is a definite place for that sort of thing in the hobby. the hobby is multi-dimensional and different parts attract different people with different focus on much the same raw materials. Thats the great part about modelling using internal combustion engines!! Old Bugger sunny cheers

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Post  Ken Cook Sat Dec 25, 2021 12:47 pm

I just run my ignition engines on glow fuel.The only ones that I use gas for is the engines with the external fuel bowl. I know that those that use pump gas and oil have experienced issues in terms of fouling plugs after a bit. Many have used the stove fuel and oil that Walmart sells. This is the cleanest burn I have witnessed. One thing I have experienced in glow and ignition is that the larger the engine is, the easier it starts and everything seems to work with simplicity.
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