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Post  firstwordisee Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:22 pm

I may have gotten in over my head, but I like challenges. While my current build is stalled waiting for a tissue order, I saw this model on the "bay" and kept going back to it. I couldnt resist...guess I've got a real problem. Arrived today and as I hoped the wood quality is superb. This one will take my entire building area so need to finish the Lizzie first but cant wait to start it.
There is no to place to fly this thing within 3 hrs or so but Ill figure that out later!
Galaxie 585- Whoa! Galaxy10
Galaxie 585- Whoa! Galaxy11
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Post  getback Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:48 am

Wow is right that's a pretty big model with 66" ws , should make a good flier !
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Post  Cribbs74 Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:58 pm

Galaxie is an appropriate name. With the right engine you could probably launch that thing into orbit.
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Post  firstwordisee Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:56 pm

"Orbit", no kidding, the build is one thing but flying it is another, started researching local clubs here last night and got some very nice feedback from the "Orbiters" (ironic) a local free flight club, Ill see how build goes, if successful, its nice to know hobby is still alive here with a handful of diehards that can help, just like this forum.
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Post  fredvon4 Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:59 am

You need to become familiar with this web site.. click and you will see

http://www.texastimers.com/
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Post  firstwordisee Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:26 pm

Thanks for the link Fred, definitely need one of those.
First things first though, I stared at the plan for about an hour and a half the other day, scratching my head, reading so called "instructions" that I dont understand and seeing balsa parts that I have no idea where to use. But I dug in anyway on the massive wing, completely lost most of the time, when I make some progress Ill post some pics with lots of questions.
In the meantime, plan shows "fabric" at a few stress points, nothing in box ( this is a tissue model), can someone fill me in on "fabric" is this supposed to be silk or ? Im in over my head here!!
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Post  fredvon4 Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:08 pm

Many of the older kits had some cloth for elevator hinges and a lot of kits require user supplied "fabric" for high stress points

Most of us prefer the very light weight fiberglass and epoxy for engine crutch and wing root areas

If you are not in a hurry I have and excess amount of very light weight fiberglass I can fold into a large envelop and mail

I highly recommend Zap Finishing resin (link later as I have to feed dogs) or any hobby 2 part 30/60/90 minuet epoxy's--the longer the cure the better-- the skills and techniques we will describe later can easily be practiced on small test pieces
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Post  firstwordisee Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:43 pm

I was actually thinking of using epoxy and fiberglass cloth as I have a little but it is just the standard stuff, you think its too heavy?
Thanks for the offer to send some Fred, if you think above is too heavy, I need to go into town tomorrow, Ill see what I can find at hardware store.
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Post  fredvon4 Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:40 pm

Tomorrow I will send photos and description of the two "weights" I have but for now must sign off and go be husband, and doggy daddy

Later buddy
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Post  firstwordisee Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:55 am

Yea that regular fiberglass cloth I have is way to heavy. Ordered some Deluxe Materials 1.5 Oz this morning, hopefully that was the right choice.
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Post  fredvon4 Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:00 pm

Reinforcements are always seeking to Increase strength and try to keep weight gain down. Many models use slightly smaller ribs in the center; out 1, 2  and up to 4 or 5 bays. This was so balsa could be glued in to add strength in the area or highest susceptibility to flex/stress failure (wing folding). It is important to orient the balsa grain spanwise and not chordwise for max strength.

Early builders cut silk covering to Over Lap in the center of the wing top and bottom by several inches, effectively having a double layer of silk over the balsa center sheeting.

With the increase of builders using MonoKote heat shrink covering, the center sheeting needed something to add strength---enter polyester, rayon, nylon, Dacron--dress lining cloth (fairly heavy).

Or harder to find but very low weight fiberglass cloth.

As carbon fiber became more available it was used in all sorts of light(er) weight manufacturing
One of the products that is very easy for us to use, has a lot of the strength of light weigh glass cloth, very much easier to cut to shape, but not as friendly around curves and recesses. Also can be found in 0.2oz half the weight as out light 0.56oz glass cloth

So lightest Glass cloth I have seen for models is 0.56 oz per sqYard. or 0.06oz per SqFoot

I know back in the 70s ~80s some guys found 0.3oz per sqYard that was used to lay up multi layer circuit boards but was horribly expensive and hard to handle and cut.

There is 0.75 Oz glass cloth

And of course for canoes, car repair, boat building, skates boards etc...glass cloth can be up 7~14oz per sqYard--very course weave heavy stuff

For our use, 0.75 is easiest to handle and 0.56 is way easier to lay into multiple curves and corners.


One source for Z-Poxy finishing resin
https://www.amazon.com/Pacer-Technology-Zap-Finishing-Adhesives/dp/B0006O8ESK?th=1

Carbon Tissue/veil in three different weights: 0.5oz/0.3oz/0.2oz
Galaxie 585- Whoa! 20220112

This has one layer 0.75oz glass on top of a stack of 0.5oz carbon (the carbon was just used for contrast)
Galaxie 585- Whoa! 20220114

Self explanatory
Galaxie 585- Whoa! 20220113

sample of 1.5 oz glass tape and 0.75 glass tape
Galaxie 585- Whoa! 20220116

Contrast of 0.56oz glass
Galaxie 585- Whoa! 20220117

Only place I ever found 90Min epoxy and reasonably priced glass cloth
Galaxie 585- Whoa! 20220115
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Post  firstwordisee Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:18 pm

Good info Fred.
Lightest I could find was 1oz but they had very limited quantities and couldnt guarantee shipment so I went with 1.5, going to have to make that work. Also got the Zap 30 min epoxy on your recommendation. Off to work then dentist, Ill check in later.
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Post  firstwordisee Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:22 pm

BTW, thanks for taking the time to post the pictures, learning a lot!
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Post  firstwordisee Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:45 am

Im getting close to fuse construction. Ill post pics of what I have finished as soon as I get a chance.
Been researching for hours and cant find the info I need for fuel supply on this type of plane. Thinking of going with a balloon in some kind of container, stupid question...doesnt seem right to put this on outside of fuse, but if inside how do you gain access once plane is covered? Would I need access? I assume you just drill a hole and run fuel line out. Should I just go with an eyedropper?
I have an O.S. .15 for this plane. Will a balloon work with it vented to pipe? Also looked everywhere for a simple fuel pinch of timer but cant find one. It seems Texas Timers doesnt offer them anymore. I can live without for now, maybe find something used later but it would effect fuse construction. Thanks.
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Post  Ken Cook Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:21 am

A eyedropper won't work effectively. You launch this plane practically vertical. The other reason is, the OS .15 would use practically all of the fuel before you could get it out of your hands. Understand there's balloon tanks and pressure bladders. I never have used a balloon for freeflight and I'm not even certain how well that would work. I use a small piece of T-10 fluorescent light guard tube about 3" long.  Pressure bladder will keep the run consistent regardless of plane attitude.

              You really do need a timer. These can be quite expensive and the average cost of them is around $50. Tatone, KSB are one in the same and they make the pinch off timer. You also have D/T timers for the tail and flood off timers. The simplest is to find a pinch off timer. The flood off timer works extremely well because it richens the engine run prior to shut off flooding it off. When you pinch off, the engine run leans and this takes the nose up high and causes a stall.

           I've never tried a small tank that has it's feed pipe suited for freeflight. I suppose it would work but there's really no way to monitor how long it runs for. You really don't want this thing running for more than 10 seconds.
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Post  firstwordisee Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:09 pm

Thanks Ken, I was hoping for your advice.
I ordered pressure bladder parts from Texas Timers.
The little info I have found show these both mounted hanging below plane and inside fuse somehow. What would you do you do on a pilon plane? You put the bladder in the tube but where? Just seems weird either way, no access inside and susceptible to damage outside.
There is a Tantone pinch off and flood timer on the Bay right now with 6 days left pinch off is already at $41 with 3 bidders, the flood looks like it may go cheaper.
I guess I am stalled on the fuse construction until I figure all this out, I assume some reinforcement for timer is needed and something to attach the bladder to (inside or outside).
Thanks again friend.
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Post  Ken Cook Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:58 pm

I attach the tube to the side of the pylon. The problem with pressure is that your needle valve needs to have fine threads. Seeing you bought bladder material from Texas Timers, it probably is latex and it's low pressure. Don't put warm or hot fuel in it and don't fill it and leave it in the sun. That material is very short lived if it's the amber colored tubing I've seen on the site.
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Post  firstwordisee Tue Feb 01, 2022 7:51 pm

Tube on side of pylon sounds great, so attached to pylon or pylon and fuse?  Just wired on? Whish I had a picture of this.
Fine thread needle, dang, always something, I know guys fly these with OS .15 LA so there has to be a mod avail, Ill research.
Yes amber colored bladder, maybe put it is some kind of dark tube? Ill need to find something, not seeing T-10 guards avail anywhere, the smallest is 5/8" dia, is that too big, not sure how much room I need in there while being as conservative as possible.
Ken sorry to bug you with all these questions, but right now you guys here are all I have for help and I truly appreciate it. Progress photos below, still needs sanding shaping.
Also in third pic there are several areas that are hashed with dots on plan, no explanation and no cut parts in kit so I assume these are itemsGalaxie 585- Whoa! Wing_110
Galaxie 585- Whoa! Wing_210
Galaxie 585- Whoa! Tip10
made from scrap. Problem is Im not finding much "scrap" so far in this kit. Should I just see whats left of the 1/16" sheet balsa and try to cut these wing tip reinforcements?
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Post  Ken Cook Wed Feb 02, 2022 11:58 am

The LA .15 comes with a remote needle valve. It will work with bladder just not great. Important thing is that it won't leak due to having a o-ring on it. The thread pitch and angle of the needle doesn't allow for the engine to be leaned to it's peak performance. A little turn one way or the other and it either burbles rich or it starves for fuel. However, it will work just find the sweet spot.

I assume your braces are the triangular gussets? Don't forego installing these, if the plane banks hard and stalls and hits the ground, it hits on the tips. The MOST IMPORTANT thing is grain orientation. The grain runs parallel to the 45 deg. as shown on your prints. I've seen this on many builds where people cut them any old way. With the grain running the other direction, they're completely useless.

I purchase my light guard tubes from Home Depot and Lowe's. I can't recall if it's T8 or T-10 but I believe it's 10. This is about 1 3/8" diameter. I go that big because I don't want the bladder squeezing against the walls causing false pressure. If that happens the engine will run rich and as the bladder depletes, it will want to go over lean making the engine surge. A smaller one might work because your not putting ounces of fuel into it. Your essentially placing just enough.

I just had my Jetco Tornado out 2 weeks ago. I had a mishap and on launch it did a hammer head right into the ground breaking the fuse. Fuse is now repaired and the minor wing damage but I can get a picture of what I did for the bladder tube
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Post  firstwordisee Wed Feb 02, 2022 2:00 pm

I actually thought the grain might be important but I rushed through all the gussets and didnt pay attention, probably pay for that later. It seems like there should be additional reinforcement added at the edge of wing tip as mentioned above. The plan shows something there but nothing in kit. BTW the wood in this kit has been very difficult to work with, very hard or very soft, guess thats what you get after so many years or so in a box. Also there is no "extra" anything, I guess they think you should have scrap balsa laying around.
Sorry to hear about the crash, I would love to see the pic if you get a chance.
These things seem like they would work for bladder, they are 4.75"L, 1.5 oz, plastic. Not sure how heavy they are. Ordered last night off Amazon. But maybe too small per your comment.
Galaxie 585- Whoa! 41ofc710
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Post  getback Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:25 am

Man you got a lot of work done in a short time , Looking good too . You may want to check out this site and get in on the discussions they do alot of FF and stuff some even make there own props pretty interesting all over the world . Need to bee a member but its free > https://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/index.php Very Happy
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Post  firstwordisee Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:35 pm

Thanks Eric.
That forum isnt very active for free flight power, but I have been going through all the old posts to learn as much as I can. May join and see if anyone responds anyway.
I did join a local free flight group "The Orbiteers" , sent a check yesterday, but dont want to jump in immediately with a barrage of questions .
I spoke with Hank at Texas Timers on the phone, he brought up a good point, lot of guys are getting too old to fly so they may have parts avail...specifically a timer, there are 1000's out there not longer in use. Hard to spend what they bid up for on Ebay, so that may be my first question to the "club".
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Post  Ken Cook Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:05 pm

After my mishap, I picked up the pieces to assemble at a later time. The other night I sat down and carefully figured out where they went and began the tedious task of gluing it back together. I managed to get it together real well. After it dried all evening, I took a piece of silk 8" long and spanned both sides of the repair and doped it. I've managed to bury the silk in dope which took probably 12 coats. I will let it gas off a bit and go to color in the next few days. Galaxie 585- Whoa! Dscn3046

Galaxie 585- Whoa! Dscn3047 This is my tube on the side of the pylon. I just have balsa end caps in the tube
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Post  firstwordisee Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:46 am

Everything about that plane is interesting, thanks for posting those pics, now I somewhat understand your application.
Good luck on the repairs, looks like you got it!
Have you seen any builds where the bladder can be pulled out at fire wall with engine removed?
Looking at my little square fuse tonight, thought it might be possible to install the red capsule (pic above) directly behind firewall but not sure if drilling hole in firewall and in F1 big enough to extract bladder would weaken things too much. But if it works, I could take engine off and pull bladder right out for replacement rather than cutting wood.
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Post  Ken Cook Fri Feb 04, 2022 5:59 am

Bladders neat constant accessibility. In addition, it's best to see it when filling. The lifespan of bladders can be quite short. As I mentioned, even the sun can pop a bladder. Texas Timer tubing isn't a reinforced surgical tubing and it's very weak. It will develop a embolism in short time which impacts the engine run. When a bladder develops this bulge, toss it.
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