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Cox Engine of The Month
February-2024
1/2A Nut's

"RC Speed Boat Power Drive TD .020"

More info on this engine!




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Post  LostServoScrew Mon Mar 28, 2022 10:55 am

It's not very googlable, so I thought I'd ask you knowledgeable lot! Smile
Many thanks in advance, I'll be surprised if no one here knows!
Anyone recognise this logo on a mystery marine glow engine Myster11
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:50 am

HB.

Check out this thread about four responses down.

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t16158-enya-warranty-cards#209393
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Post  LostServoScrew Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:53 am

HB engines! You guys are good, very very good!
Many thanks, mystery solved, off to google!
This one came with a layer of castor gum about an 1/8 inch thick!
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:58 am

LostServoScrew wrote:HB engines! You guys are good, very very good!
Many thanks, mystery solved, off to google!
This one came with a layer of castor gum about an 1/8 inch thick!

Thank Ken. I knew nothing about them until he chimed in with his limitless knowledge about all things glow engines.
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Post  Marleysky Mon Mar 28, 2022 2:33 pm

LostServoScrew wrote:HB engines! You guys are good, very very good!
Many thanks, mystery solved, off to google!
This one came with a layer of castor gum about an 1/8 inch thick!

If ya need parts ya can try this page from MEOCA, some say they are not responsive, but when in need :

http://www.hbengines.com/
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Post  LostServoScrew Mon Mar 28, 2022 5:33 pm

Well I got mildly exited on seeing it's German, went out to the shed, viced it's existing flat mounting, primed it, put a glow starter on it, a bit of string around the flywheel, and it runs!
Yay!

It's not really worth putting any spare parts on it, and Meoca no longer send anything to the UK, along with the guy that makes those neat turbo plug adaptors and radial mounts for cox engines Sad

Anyway, I'm building a test bench this week, as and when parts arrive, so whilst it's not top of my list to test I am looking forward to it.

I've got some good 4 strokes to try out first including An HB VT 21 radial valve affair - I think that's way about the coolest big glow in my rather shady collection of old engines
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Post  GallopingGhostler Tue Mar 29, 2022 1:06 am

Congrats on the prize of owning HB engines and finding out you have a good runner. Yes, because of the current international situation, shipping between countries has gotten horrendously more costly, some with long shipping delays. However, there may be others on your side that may be able to help. Some time not too long ago, I was communicating with a group in UK that was developing actuators and encoders to mimic the old escapements and compound galloping ghost actuators like the Rand.

Since, I've lost touch, but you may be able to through people as such find someone else over there who similar to a few here in CEF may be able to help you, those who have access to machinist equipment and don't mind helping a fellow flyer, or for a nominal fee make you a part as their hobby interest.

I acquired a little HB jewel not long ago complete with muffler, a used but not abused .12 R/C. I misplaced a box with it and several of my engines, but I love the way they easily permit either beam mount or bulkhead mount.
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Post  germanbuddy Wed Mar 30, 2022 5:11 am

To my knowledge, HB stands for Helmut Bernhardt former Hörnlein engine factory .
HB engines were sold by Graupner , looong time ago.
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Post  GallopingGhostler Thu Mar 31, 2022 6:10 pm

Found it, my HB .12 R/C with Perry carb. Needs a little clean up, but a rare jewel in my eyes. Such an engine would be fitting on a 46" Hobby Shack The Real Thing, no engine mount needed. (Yes, I have that kit, bought it in the 1980's.) Muffler extension appears to be possibly Tatone based on the strap, although might be Dubro (or another).

Anyone recognise this logo on a mystery marine glow engine Hb12rc10
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Post  rsv1cox Fri Apr 01, 2022 7:03 am

It's clever how they blended the initials into the logo. Wonder why they sold a .12 and a .15.
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Post  GallopingGhostler Fri Apr 01, 2022 9:03 am

rsv1cox wrote:It's clever how they blended the initials into the logo.  Wonder why they sold a .12 and a .15.  

Astute observation, Bob. The logo also appears to mimic a protractor for measuring angles.

Good question, I imagine that the .12 was for modelers to consider this slightly more powerful engine as a replacement candidate for .09 / .10 power. According to

http://mecoa.com/hb/12/12.htm

Mecoa, the current owners of the HB line, the .12 sports 0.29 bhp at 12,000 rpm. I don't know of any engine review test report, except for Sceptre Flight's test of the .15. The manufacturer specifications by Mecoa show .375 bhp 10,000 rpm. Peter Chinn's test revealed 0.27 bhp at 17,000 rpm. This lends me to believe that the factory's figures are somewhat inflated for the .12. (The factory rpm figures seem on the low side too, making me suspect they may be incorrectly copied, IMO.)

The Enya .09-III (0.099 displacement) puts out 0.20 (CL) or 0.16 (RC) hp. For the TV, Peter Chinn's test revealed 0.16 bhp at 14,500 rpm. Thus, I believe Enya's factory specs to be more or less truer to real world. Peter considered the Enya .09-III to be the second most powerful engine to the Cox .09 Tee Dee. That being the case and since it is cross scavenged like the Bernhardt, I am using it for comparison.

I tend to believe that the .12 would be more powerful than the Enya .09-III TV, because it also sports a single ball bearing assembly on the crankshaft and has 23% more displacement. A few "back of an envelop calculations ....  Wink

Using fuzzy math Paranoid to estimate the Bernhardt .12 bhp,
.12 - 0.531" bore x 0.555" stroke = 0.1229 displacement.
.15 - 0.590" bore x 0.555" stroke = 0.1517 displacement.
Displacement difference is 0.801 or 80.1%

0.27 bhp (HB .15) x 0.801 = 0.22 bhp

Peter Chinn's test of the plain bearing Enya .15-III TV revealed 0.25 bhp at 12,700 rpm, at touch lower than the Bernhardt with one ball bearing, which lends me to believe that the single ball bearing gave the Bernhardt a slight edge.

Thus, the 0.22 bhp figure for an engine that has 23% more displacement (and 23% more explosive content by the air/fuel mixture) and a ball bearing over the Enya doesn't appear to be too far off.

I don't know how true this would be compared to a real test, but imagine that since the Bernhardt engines are a touch more powerful than the Enya, is probably not too far from the truth.

As they say, "Liars figure and figures lie." lol!
This follows the same analogy that since a plane looks super sleek and streamlined, it flies faster in the air. lol!
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Post  Surfer_kris Fri Apr 01, 2022 3:04 pm

The .12 and .15 are almost identical in every aspect, apart from the cylinder bore. So there certainly was not much of a problem to produce both the .12 and .15 engines.

The power of the .12 engine is comparable to the OS .10FSR on a 7x4 prop, not too shabby for an much older engine design. Wink
I have already posted some of my power findings in the other thread, but here they are again:

Here are some numbers on 10%nitro and 20% all castor fuel (I think they are set-up for 0% nitro, so I usually add one head shim):

HB .12 with stock muffler, APC 7x4 prop, no head shim (ran a bit hot): 14800rpm.
HB .12 with stock muffler, APC 7x4 prop, one head shim: 14600rpm.

HB .15 with stock muffler, APC 8x4 prop, one head shim: 14000rpm.

Here is a little bench run of the HB .12 with an APC 7x4 prop (and one head shim):
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Post  GallopingGhostler Fri Apr 01, 2022 6:07 pm

Kris, good work, thanks for the numbers and video. It is encouraging that the engine's performance matches a sport Schneurle. I imagine that without a head shim, that it would perform well on no nitro (FAI) or very low nitro fuel?
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