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Cox Engine of The Month
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Post  Levent Suberk Sat Jun 04, 2022 8:51 am

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Post  Ken Cook Sat Jun 04, 2022 8:26 pm

The Fox .40 in the picture is a bit of a rarity. I also disagree with the article's intro claiming the .40 was made available in 1964. The engine was introduced in 63. Duke used a plater that finished the cases in the gold electroplate. The 1963 Fox Stunt .35 which surprisingly isn't mentioned in this article was the first anniversary special edition offered. The 1963 Fox .35 was the 15th anniversary edition which was gold plated. Duke only plated those engine for one year and the 40 was done as well. He used the .35X case instead of making a new mold specifically for the .40. He then used a sticker that also fell off quickly on the case which said .40 rat race. I own one of these engines and the plating wore off quickly due to use. Mine actually is in good shape. The .40 used the .35X case but it utilized a needle bearing in the front of the case and a ball bearing in the rear whereas the .35X used a needle in the rear and the remainder of the shaft rode in the case. I own rat racers, I never used them for their intended purpose but I believe due to certain rule changes, Duke was forced to discontinue his offering. This was a common problem he faced several times during his design changes. A day late and a dollar short. This happened so much that I almost believe he invented that saying.

              For instance, the Fox .049's used in the Comet models. The originals had the Comet logo cast on the side of the case. When Comet and Fox had a falling out, this left Duke with a real problem. He had engines with the Comet logo and a very tall venturi stack which got it outside the plastic halves of the RTF model. Duke ground off the logos, he also cut the venturi down and beveled it's face. The tank back of the .049 was also the backplate. He cut the exterior portion of the tank off of the backplate . If you see one of these engines which looks like someone chewed the backplate to fit properly, it was actually how it left the factory. Appearance wise, it looks as though someone used a axe to trim the aluminum.  True crappy style, just the way Duke liked it, cheaply done.
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Post  706jim Sun Jun 05, 2022 12:55 am

To me Fox engines always looked rough.
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Post  Twin Stack Sun Jun 05, 2022 1:37 am

Ken Cook wrote:The Fox .40 in the picture is a bit of a rarity. I also disagree with the article's intro claiming the .40 was made available in 1964. The engine was introduced in 63. Duke used a plater that finished the cases in the gold electroplate. The 1963 Fox Stunt .35 which surprisingly isn't mentioned in this article was the first anniversary special edition offered. The 1963 Fox .35 was the 15th anniversary edition which was gold plated. Duke only plated those engine for one year and the 40 was done as well. He used the .35X case instead of making a new mold specifically for the .40. He then used a sticker that also fell off quickly on the case which said .40 rat race.  I own one of these engines and the plating wore off quickly due to use. Mine actually is in good shape. The .40 used the .35X case but it utilized a needle bearing in the front of the case and a ball bearing in the rear whereas the .35X used a needle in the rear and the remainder of the shaft rode in the case. I own rat racers, I never used them for their intended purpose but I believe due to certain rule changes, Duke was forced to discontinue his offering. This was a common problem he faced several times during his design changes. A day late and a dollar short. This happened so much that I almost believe he invented that saying.

Ken,
Just to clarify- the first Anniversary FOX 35 Stunt was actually the 10th Anniversary one, though not gold plated.
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1402733-Vintage-Glow-Engines/page315#post22042771
Also, there were two 35X engines - the first "Blue Ribbon" had dual needle bearings, the second one with the beefed up front housing, only had the rear needle race.
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Post  Ken Cook Sun Jun 05, 2022 7:25 am

Twin Stack, your absolutely correct in regards to the Stunt .35. I suppose I  should've reworded my post. However, the 15th was the first of that style to be consecutively produced. The  Stunt .35 had been redesigned from the sand cast to what were familiar with now in it's early stages, nonetheless 10 years is ten years. I was never a fan of the sand cast version. Every time I used them, the head gasket would blow out. I believe Duke changed the gasket from fiber or paper to metal in the later years of that version.

               As for the .35X, I never considered the dual needle bearing version a X version. It gets somewhat complicated in and around 1961-1963. I'm fortunate to own every most examples Duke produced with the exception of the MK 7 being the last and the Fox .36 Baldie. I sold my 7 to a club member who still uses it.  Sadly, the molds for the .36X cases were modified  to produce the Baldie. At this point, there was never to be another .36X crankcase produced.

         I'm assuming when you mentioned the early version with the dual needles, your suggesting that this was the bolt on front end? I always was informed that this was the "61 Special" What is even more different is that I have this engine with the dual needle bearing 4 bolt backplate with the Rocket logo on the side of the case. I also have this engine with the Rocket logo removed and no number designation as to it's size.

         I do own a Blue Ribbon Special which my dad gave to me. Unfortunately, back then, I never considered the box to be of any value and I used it for parts, etc. The ribbon sticker eventually came off and the package finally split and I tossed it.

       Duke had a habit of using whatever he had on hand. I have Black Heads with painted heads which is the "58" version, plain heads being the "57' version and Rocket Red heads, I also have what appears to be a "57" plain head with the Rocket logo on the side. I opened them up and noticed differences in the Red head vs the Rocket. The cranks while more than likely would interchange had noticeable differences. The opening much larger in the shaft on the plain head vs smaller on the red head and a full web counterweight on the red head. Probably reason why the red head vibrates.

        I was able to really up the performance of many of these old timers by offering them Brian Gardner ABC piston liners. All of my .35X's and .36X's now utilize the ABC versions. Larry Scarinzi always suggested that the .36X could meet or exceed 120 MPH. I was present with Larry at New Jersey's Vintage Combat when I saw it first hand. However, Larry suggested stock but these were Brian's piston liners so I can see how the skeptics are still up in the air of that actually occurring.
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Post  Twin Stack Sun Jun 05, 2022 8:55 pm

Ken Cook wrote:Twin Stack, your absolutely correct in regards to the Stunt .35. I suppose I  should've reworded my post. However, the 15th was the first of that style to be consecutively produced. The  Stunt .35 had been redesigned from the sand cast to what were familiar with now in it's early stages, nonetheless 10 years is ten years. I was never a fan of the sand cast version. Every time I used them, the head gasket would blow out. I believe Duke changed the gasket from fiber or paper to metal in the later years of that version.

               As for the .35X, I never considered the dual needle bearing version a X version. It gets somewhat complicated in and around 1961-1963. I'm fortunate to own every most examples Duke produced with the exception of the MK 7 being the last and the Fox .36 Baldie. I sold my 7 to a club member who still uses it.  Sadly, the molds for the .36X cases were modified  to produce the Baldie. At this point, there was never to be another .36X crankcase produced.

         I'm assuming when you mentioned the early version with the dual needles, your suggesting that this was the bolt on front end? I always was informed that this was the "61 Special" What is even more different is that I have this engine with the dual needle bearing 4 bolt backplate with the Rocket logo on the side of the case. I also have this engine with the Rocket logo removed and no number designation as to it's size.

         I do own a Blue Ribbon Special which my dad gave to me. Unfortunately, back then, I never considered the box to be of any value and I used it for parts, etc. The ribbon sticker eventually came off and the package finally split and I tossed it.

       Duke had a habit of using whatever he had on hand. I have Black Heads with painted heads which is the "58" version, plain heads being the "57' version and Rocket Red heads, I also have what appears to be a "57" plain head with the Rocket logo on the side. I opened them up and noticed differences in the Red head vs the Rocket. The cranks while more than likely would interchange had noticeable differences. The opening much larger in the shaft on the plain head vs smaller on the red head and a full web counterweight on the red head. Probably reason why the red head vibrates.

Ken,
Nice to chew the fat with a fellow FOX enthusiast, as I really miss ol' Bill Mohrbacher.  As an engine collector, I've had some rarities through my hands, but as I've stated elsewhere, I get just as much pleasure from the 33 FOX's in my collection, as from any other exotica. As for the very first 35X, it appeared in 1962 as the "Blue Ribbon" Special 35, and came on a cardboard backed bubble pack (see photo's). The main bearing housing did not have any strengthening webs, so these were added to the '63 35X which now only had the single rear needle bearing. Click onto this link to see an old post by Bill Mohrbacher - photo's #1 and #3 show the original 35X with non-detachable front housing (which appeared earlier on the 29X and 35 CS Series III)
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1402733-Vintage-Glow-Engines/page628#post28236298
The engine shown with the green background is from my own collection.
Good to chat,
BOB
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Post  Twin Stack Sun Jun 05, 2022 9:02 pm

Obviously I'm having problems posting images! Need instructions suitable for a computer tragic... Sad
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Post  GallopingGhostler Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:46 am

Photos have a size limit. I use imaging software (GIMP) to reduce the resolutions and file sizes to under a 1/2 megabyte, so the server will accept them. Otherwise, my raw photos aren't accepted by the server. usually I will reduce resolution to 1536 wide by smaller height, although depending on the photo, sometimes smaller than that.
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Post  Ken Cook Mon Jun 06, 2022 3:48 am

I miss Bill myself, I always enjoyed talking with him at Brodak's and at the swap meets he would attend annually. Bill dated and designated most of my collection. Just prior to his passing, we were at a swap meet in New Jersey. He called and asked me to bring along a .049 I had which was also acquired from my father. He rebuilt it for me with all new parts minus the crankcase. I thought that was really neat of him to do that. His glass case collections were quite amazing.
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Post  GallopingGhostler Mon Jun 06, 2022 6:04 am

Could some of the gaps and errors in Peter Chinn's reporting be related to the fact that he lived in UK? As such, depended upon information sent him from the Fox Company and importers into UK?

I imagine that not all versions were exported to UK, or samples he received didn't include all. Plus, there may have been delays between what was exported versus what sold locally. Also, his US information sources could have had errors, too.

There were gaps in the Enya Engine Compendium, for similar reasons, plus too some models never were exported to US. Those who were working in or traveled to Japan had access to some of those non-exported. Plus, some versions were short lived. Of course, the language barrier didn't help either.

I only have two Foxes, a .25 R/C, one of the last of the cross scavenged with MKX carb and drooped teardrop muffler, and a .15X. They have been more of a curiosity than anything else. I am certainly no authority on them. The .25, the crank prop thread is cut slightly off centered. Props seem to center okay regardless, but certainly not impressed with quality. For contrast, my OS's seem to mirror Swiss jeweler quality, including the (years are approximate, could be wrong) 1965 Max .10R/C, 1972 Pet .099, 1974 Max .15R/C, and Max .15FP-S.
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Post  Oldenginerod Mon Jun 06, 2022 4:54 pm

Years back someone gave me a Fox 40R/C.  Strange beast.  Doesn't look like any other Fox I've seen, although Henry Werner was able to help me out with gaskets & screws etc for the rebuild.  It has one of those odd twin-jet Fox carbs.  Seems to run ok after a fair bit of fiddling.

Fox Engines History in Aeromodeller Magazine 100_4812
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Post  Ken Cook Mon Jun 06, 2022 5:35 pm

Rod, that .40 is a very unique engine. I love them actually. This was supposed to be a rear ball bearing racing engine. The engine also utilizes a flat top piston. The liners of these are exceptionally hard. This engine is another scenario where Duke dropped the ball, waited too long and the rule changes for the event made it obsolete. He did this with the bushed shiny cased .36 with the angled plug which was intended for slow combat. George Aldrich collaborated with Duke in getting these engines into a stunt format so that he could sell them. These engines were engraved on the lug and case with Aldrich Special. On some of these examples George also chromed the cylinders. This .40 really is more like a Fox .35 stunt on steroids. It swings 11" props with authority and it has a terrific break to it when the nose gets pointed up. On the downside, it has the widest footprint of any engine I know of, therefore once committed, no engine is going to fit afterwards.In addition, this ISN'T a engine you want to take apart unless you have gaskets and making one is not a easy chore. The head screws through the sleeve and the gasket is notched to allow the screws to pass through. When it leaks, it comes out of the screws on the cylinder head. Typically, Duke always used parts from other series engines but this one shares almost none with any other.
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Post  duradad Tue Feb 06, 2024 6:58 pm

Ken. Is this the same as you describe above? Note gasket and bolt set.
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Post  Oldenginerod Wed Feb 07, 2024 3:59 am

duradad wrote:Ken. Is this the same as you describe above? Note gasket and bolt set.
Hey duradad. You will need a few days of activity on the forum before you get permission to post pictures. There are tutorials that describe how to post.

Rod.
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Post  dan vincent Fri Mar 29, 2024 8:51 am

I saw George Aldrich mentioned above and thought I'd pass this on

George and I were on the phone and I happened to refer to the Fox Rocket .09.

George was unfamiliar with the Fox .09, Fox .10 Hustler .10 so I made this reference sheet for him.
Fox Engines History in Aeromodeller Magazine Fox09110
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