Cox Engines Forum
You are not logged in! Please login or register.

Logged in members see NO ADVERTISEMENTS!


Nitro is cheaper than oil? Cox_ba12





Log in

I forgot my password

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Cox Engine of The Month
January-2023
1/2A Nut's

"Tee Dee .020 RC"



PAST WINNERS
CEF Traveling Engine

Win This Engine!
Gallery


Nitro is cheaper than oil? Empty
Live on Patrol


Nitro is cheaper than oil?

Go down

Nitro is cheaper than oil? Empty Nitro is cheaper than oil?

Post  batjac Wed Dec 28, 2022 8:49 pm

I am about to mix up some 35% nitro for the upcoming season.  I have gotten used to the 50/50 mix for castor/synthetic in my engines, so that’s what I was going to mix up.  I have a quart of SIG castor, but I need some synthetic, so I was going to get some Klotz.  And maybe some Benol so I could mix up some fuel for my Fox 35s.  From what I’ve read, SIG buys Klotz in the 55 gallon barrel for their fuel.

Looking online at Amazon seemed to be my best bet.  But, MAN! Oil is expensive!  I was thinking I’d use Klotz KL-198 for the synthetic.  It’s full synthetic, but a little lower viscosity than Klotz Techniplate KL-200. Also a little more on price.  It comes out to 57 cents/oz. for the -198 and 47 cents/oz. for the Techniplate.  For castor the Benol comes out to 45 cents/oz.  And just for fun, I looked up the medical grade castor sold by Walmart, and it sells for 46 cents per ounce.  

And an ounce of nitro only costs me 39 cents!  Still a lot cheaper than buying pre-mixed, but the price distribution makes me scratch my head a little.

The Mixologist Mark
batjac
batjac
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

2022 Supporter

Posts : 2180
Join date : 2013-05-22
Age : 59
Location : Broken Arrow, OK, USA

Back to top Go down

Nitro is cheaper than oil? Empty Re: Nitro is cheaper than oil?

Post  HalfaDave Wed Dec 28, 2022 11:43 pm

Hi Mark,

Back in the 'Day',
The local (bike ride away) Hobby shop carried Cox fuel.
It was very expensive, but worth it.
(bad exchange rate and a duty on things coming into Canada)
The nice thing was,
We could buy it in Pints/Quarts. Screw top cans.
Hobby shop seemed to know how many props we would bust too...
It was the 'Medium' Power Cox fuel. (forgot what colour the cans were.)
Ran our .049s great.
At 35% Nitro, are you mixing 'Hot' Cox fuel ?
Did Cox make any fuel less than a 'Medium' ?

Used slide rules back then,
Dave

P.S. $40/gallon for 15%, three years ago here...



HalfaDave
HalfaDave
Gold Member
Gold Member

Posts : 197
Join date : 2022-12-06

Back to top Go down

Nitro is cheaper than oil? Empty Re: Nitro is cheaper than oil?

Post  GallopingGhostler Wed Dec 28, 2022 11:49 pm

HalfaDave wrote:P.S. $40/gallon for 15%,  three years ago here.
Ouch! California petrol prices! lol!
GallopingGhostler
GallopingGhostler
Top Poster
Top Poster

Posts : 3842
Join date : 2013-07-13
Age : 68
Location : Clovis, NM, USA

Back to top Go down

Nitro is cheaper than oil? Empty Re: Nitro is cheaper than oil?

Post  HalfaDave Thu Dec 29, 2022 12:57 am

Hi gg,
You can laugh, (and I, with you on prices...)
But around here, we cut more grass, delivered more local papers....
Just to afford that fuel,
That sweet nectar, that made our Cox engines run better...
Was worth it.

I am curious?
What was the nitro content of Cox 'Medium' fuel?

My .049s , with a splash of Benol on 15%nitro seem not the same. Still run great.

Not looking to burn out glow plugs,
Dave

HalfaDave
HalfaDave
Gold Member
Gold Member

Posts : 197
Join date : 2022-12-06

Back to top Go down

Nitro is cheaper than oil? Empty Re: Nitro is cheaper than oil?

Post  balogh Thu Dec 29, 2022 1:19 am

Hello Dave,

you can find the material composition of original COX fuels among the Instruction Sheets, under the Other Cox related Documents section,  this one for instance with 10% nitro content,  included:

https://dbabd7f0-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/nitroengine/Cox%20Glow%20Power%20Fuel.PDF?attachauth=ANoY7cpzdWaSHqNPC3YrIsB1LsibTUZiRyiQG_w0KNyDJCybxUukFna_kUjzYTmtpNKTtmxuYnCBJ3zQvZ0LroJVhf9bAHBYiLn-WS5srDKZAspGW9Ag1OkCB368QBBzS7LGfIqumISTciS6W2Moq4rmBk0ja2iBai_Mib9T1aYky8PHse6vI_9niJOCdpWLu7PZ2gssJcFaRL_GQO8XnicFFW_sLjljmy-8MJcRux1hHP_vcOJlaRA%3D&attredirects=0

I fly all COX engine sizes from 010 up to 09 in my RC planes, on my own home blended fuels, and have settled with 20% nitro and 20% all-castor for all sizes except the 010, for which I used to blend 30% nitro into the fuel.

But a recent bench run in October with not too cold air in my garage saw my 010 run happily at 27k even with only 20% nitro of the fuel I had made for its larger brothers.


Last edited by balogh on Thu Dec 29, 2022 2:23 am; edited 1 time in total
balogh
balogh
Top Poster
Top Poster

2022 Supporter

Posts : 4270
Join date : 2011-11-06
Age : 64
Location : Budapest Hungary

Back to top Go down

Nitro is cheaper than oil? Empty Re: Nitro is cheaper than oil?

Post  GallopingGhostler Thu Dec 29, 2022 2:18 am

HalfaDave wrote:Hi gg, You can laugh, (and I,  with you on prices...) But around here, we cut more grass, delivered more local papers.... Just to afford that fuel, That sweet nectar, that made our Cox engines run better... Was worth it.
Oh, I think we both and others here are accustomed to hard work early on.

We moved to Hawaii when I was 12. Had a paper route when 14, was one of those ad type papers. Distribute, then ask for payment. Some would pay us. (Was different than a regular paper route type work.) After in high school, worked on poultry farms after school and weekends, 40 hours per week during summer, first in 1969 earned $1.25 US per hour. Picked eggs, filled feed hoppers, carried meat birds and old hens, removed dead chickens from cages and houses, washed feed troughs and chains, took care of brooders, vaccinated chicks, shoveled and hauled manure. (I learned to unshovel at the far end of the farm off the flat bed truck downwind instead of upwind and throw the stuff low. Semi dry chicken manure had less of a tendency to fly in your face Sh*t Hit The Fan and make a stink of a ride home.)  Mad  Laughing

But, I could afford my own car and clothes.

HalfaDave wrote:I am curious? What was the nitro content of Cox 'Medium' fuel?
I think it was 15% nitro, but it sounds like yours may have been higher.

HalfaDave wrote:My .049s , with a splash of Benol on 15% nitro seem not the same. Still run great. Not looking to burn out glow plugs, Dave
I've been adding a pint of Castor oil to standard 15% nitro R/C fuel that already has 16% Synth oil and 2% Castor oil, giving me 25% with 10% Castor and 15% Synth. Coxes run OK with it, but my Norvel .061 doesn't run consistent with it (likes the 10% Castor 10% Synth mix). I use this mix with my other engines, McCoy .35 runs fine with it.

Back 40 - 50 years ago, I got used to the ashen and fragile appearance of the glow elements in Cox engine heads, after a season or couple months flying. But then, one could buy glow heads at any hobby store, and earlier at any major department store. I always carried a couple extra new ones at the field. When they popped and quit, I'd wrench off the old one, wrench on a new one. They'd get that way even on the 25% nitro stuff. For me, it was just a fact of life.

Now that Cox heads are running about $11 - $14 apiece, so you are right about watching nitro content to avoid shortening head life. But because I live where the winds are usually 15 mph or better during the day, the smaller half-A stuff are unsuitable most of the time. (We may be get 4 days a year of calm enough winds for half-A.)

Thus, CL flight is with .15's and up, RC flight is with .09's and up.
GallopingGhostler
GallopingGhostler
Top Poster
Top Poster

Posts : 3842
Join date : 2013-07-13
Age : 68
Location : Clovis, NM, USA

Back to top Go down

Nitro is cheaper than oil? Empty Re: Nitro is cheaper than oil?

Post  Ken Cook Thu Dec 29, 2022 3:44 am

Since fuel has been difficult to source in these parts over the past 6-7 years, I've been mixing my own myself. I used Powermaster exclusively for 25 years until it became problematic with shipping. I can still get it and my club members still do purchase it but the going rate with shipping from Texas to Pennsylvania equates to $47 a gallon with all factored in. I'm not doing that. The fact that your able to purchase nitro at that price would be terrific for me as that's not happening in these parts and I would be seriously stocking up on that. 1 gallon delivered to my door is $113. The local speed shop showed me a paper stating that they couldn't sell nitro in it's raw form. They can sell VP 50/50 which is nitro blended with methanol. 5 gallons of 50/50 is $200 out the door.

Given everything is out of control moneywise these days, Klotz oils have been pretty stable over the past few years. I use Klotz exclusively and always have. Buying it by the qt is not a good practice. Gallons offer a better alternative monetarily speaking and it doesn't last long.

As for Fox's, you don't need the oil percentages that everyone claims. They only need a minimum of 20% oil, I've been running them for 30+ years solely on 50/50 semi-synthetic. This includes combat, racing and stunt and NEVER seen a oil related failure. If your a die hard castor oil fanatic, use straight castor but beware that eventually, it will coke up with carbon and the engine needs to be de carbonized. This can also do more damage if not treated properly as it causes major drag and overheating. A muffler will also cause this to happen even faster.
Ken Cook
Ken Cook
Top Poster
Top Poster

Posts : 5036
Join date : 2012-03-27
Location : pennsylvania

Back to top Go down

Nitro is cheaper than oil? Empty Re: Nitro is cheaper than oil?

Post  HalfaDave Thu Dec 29, 2022 4:51 am

Hi all,
The castor beans make the oil.
Grains/corn make Ethanol/Methanol.
Somehow, nitro comes from by-products...
Therefore,
Cox Engines,
Are solar powered,
Try this with your lithium battery friends,
With Respect,
Dave
HalfaDave
HalfaDave
Gold Member
Gold Member

Posts : 197
Join date : 2022-12-06

Back to top Go down

Nitro is cheaper than oil? Empty Re: Nitro is cheaper than oil?

Post  rsv1cox Thu Dec 29, 2022 7:20 am

HalfaDave wrote:Hi Mark,

Back in the 'Day',

Used slide rules back then,
Dave


Picket 1010's were the rage.  Mine was lost in the moving shuffles of yesteryear.  Got me through Navy schools in the 50's/60's.
rsv1cox
rsv1cox
Top Poster
Top Poster

2021 Supporter

2022 Supporter

2023 Supporter

Posts : 8851
Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : West Virginia

Back to top Go down

Nitro is cheaper than oil? Empty Re: Nitro is cheaper than oil?

Post  GallopingGhostler Thu Dec 29, 2022 7:33 am

Ken, thanks for sharing your 30 year Fox fuel usage history and consistent successes on the 10% Castor, 10% Synth oil mix. I don't know how many times I have been told by some in forums that Foxes deserve no less than 29% all Castor oil fuel, along with the McCoys, when I mention my fuel mix in the past. It was particularly posters on Stuka Stunt and BOTR when still active, and even Stunt Hangar, RC Groups and RC Universe engine threads, and etc. I received warnings time and time again on even my 15% Synth 10% Castor mix. "You will ruin your engines, don't forget I warned you", etc. Paranoid  (Interestingly as baby boomers have been passing Sad or dropping out of the hobby, others are going electric, I'm hearing less of that now.) Tired w/ Coffee Read  Very Happy

Now if one has an engine well worn that has compression loss, the varnish Castor seal can help those engines run beyond normal retirement life, or so I gather. Running Synth containing fuel can erode that seal. But then, I have one worn out Enya .15-III TV with very low compression (it fluffs when I flip it, a shot of motor oil boosts it), that once it starts, roars to life and seems to run as strong as a good one on my mix. Go figure ...
HalfaDave wrote:The castor beans make the oil. Grains/corn make Ethanol/Methanol. Somehow, nitro comes from by-products...
Dave, when Leroy Cox and Duke Fox were alive, our fuels were of organic goodness, sunny but no more. Doh! Corn for fuel is GMO. Now, Castor too has gone GMO. Shocked Shh

Science Daily 5-Jul-09: Castor-oil Plants Genetically Altered To Produce New Bio-lubricants
lol!
GallopingGhostler
GallopingGhostler
Top Poster
Top Poster

Posts : 3842
Join date : 2013-07-13
Age : 68
Location : Clovis, NM, USA

Back to top Go down

Nitro is cheaper than oil? Empty Re: Nitro is cheaper than oil?

Post  HalfaDave Thu Dec 29, 2022 8:56 am

Hi rsv1cox,

Do Not get me started on Slide Rules !

I was ~10yrs old, Man had landed on the Moon,
We were firing up Cox engines...
Even a lousy slide rule would get you 99.9% of an answer...
Estimating was the hard part....
2 X 2 = 4, not 40 or 400...

Some of the big 'adult' slide rules were a work of art, 99.999% accurate.

Most of my mistakes these days, are off by 10X or more... Very Happy

Hi gg,
I agree with everything you say, 100%.
Or, 1000%, oops, 10,000%, no, 100,000%...
That is my answer...

Did I mention,
This Cox forum is awesome?
Thanks,
Dave

HalfaDave
HalfaDave
Gold Member
Gold Member

Posts : 197
Join date : 2022-12-06

Back to top Go down

Nitro is cheaper than oil? Empty Slide Rules and significant digits

Post  706jim Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:26 am

One good thing about slide rules was that they effectively demonstrated the concept of significant digits which your modern calculators do not. And if my memory serves me right you can't add or subtract on a slide rule.
706jim
706jim
Gold Member
Gold Member

Posts : 369
Join date : 2013-11-29

Back to top Go down

Nitro is cheaper than oil? Empty Re: Nitro is cheaper than oil?

Post  HalfaDave Thu Dec 29, 2022 10:16 am

Hi 706jim,

You are right. Paper and pencil were needed too.
Add and subtract was not a function slide rules had.

I hope Mark is having fun mixing up his fuel...
And we are not confusing him...
So, Cox 'Medium' fuel was around 20% nitro?

Just asking,
Dave

HalfaDave
HalfaDave
Gold Member
Gold Member

Posts : 197
Join date : 2022-12-06

Back to top Go down

Nitro is cheaper than oil? Empty Re: Nitro is cheaper than oil?

Post  GallopingGhostler Thu Dec 29, 2022 12:00 pm

Back in 1976, slide rules were already sliding out of vogue. lol! Then, I remember the large electronic basic calculators at Keller Hall, the science building at the University of Hawaii. They were the size of the older cash registers, with electric neon tubes for each digit. They fit in the 9-pin miniature tube sockets, stood up about 2.5, may be 3 inches tall, behind a plexiglass window. It had precision up to about 8 digits. One still referred to the logarithm tables for calculations. PI was posted on the calculator room walls along with other commonly used constants and equations.

Flashback, click here to view:

I got to where I could use the slide rule as a backup, but because the Holmes Hall engineering building gave me access to various calculators and several computers, I was able to use them instead.

Coniinued, click here to view:
GallopingGhostler
GallopingGhostler
Top Poster
Top Poster

Posts : 3842
Join date : 2013-07-13
Age : 68
Location : Clovis, NM, USA

Back to top Go down

Nitro is cheaper than oil? Empty Re: Nitro is cheaper than oil?

Post  HalfaDave Thu Dec 29, 2022 12:47 pm

Hi gg,

I gave up on computers,
When I had to punch cards, for a machine, that took 20 minutes,
To tell me the answer... I already knew.

I hope this does not get me kicked off the internet ! Very Happy

With respect,
Dave
HalfaDave
HalfaDave
Gold Member
Gold Member

Posts : 197
Join date : 2022-12-06

Back to top Go down

Nitro is cheaper than oil? Empty Re: Nitro is cheaper than oil?

Post  GallopingGhostler Thu Dec 29, 2022 12:58 pm

HalfaDave wrote:I gave up on computers, When I had to punch cards, for a machine, that took 20 minutes, To tell me the answer... I already knew. I hope this does not get me kicked off the internet ! Very Happy
Here, no. RC Plane That is what Fake-bork, Twitzler, Amer-zone cornments section, and Ewe-toob are for. Happy New Year
GallopingGhostler
GallopingGhostler
Top Poster
Top Poster

Posts : 3842
Join date : 2013-07-13
Age : 68
Location : Clovis, NM, USA

Back to top Go down

Nitro is cheaper than oil? Empty Re: Nitro is cheaper than oil?

Post  batjac Thu Dec 29, 2022 2:43 pm

Hi All,

I could mix up 20% or 25% fuel and run it fine. Especially as I'm not racing or anything. But on a day when my starter battery is getting low or the weather is just not right, where 25% might be a hard start, 35% always lights off. And, since it only costs me about a dollar more to pump up to 35% from 25% for a quart, I'll play Mr. Moneybags.

As for the Fox fuel, all my Fox .35s are used, so they already have a good varnish going. If I run the synthetic it'll flush out the goop and I don't know how they'll run. So I'll stick to around 25% castor for those. Besides, the smell Man! The smell!

The Spendthrift Mark
batjac
batjac
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

2022 Supporter

Posts : 2180
Join date : 2013-05-22
Age : 59
Location : Broken Arrow, OK, USA

Back to top Go down

Nitro is cheaper than oil? Empty Re: Nitro is cheaper than oil?

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum