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Post  Onelife Thu Jan 05, 2023 11:30 am

I have a black fox 35  50th anniversary colloctors addition I see other fox 35  50th anniversary that look like all the other foxes crank cases. Are these engines the same? I’m not a collector but I do like the old fox engines. Are these the same value and are they both fly able?
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Post  Ken Cook Fri Jan 06, 2023 3:49 am

The black and gold Fox anniversary edition was offered in the 40th anniversary case initially. This is the case with the 2 small muffler ear screws. The gold plated screws on these engines usually peel or become very discolored. These engines on EBAY are bringing a fair amount of money. It's difficult to put a dollar amount on them as some suffer from the Igottahaveit disease. I've seen one in particular sell for over $500. Fox then produced the black and gold in the 50-60th case. There's nothing different about these engines.
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Post  EXModelEngines Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:08 pm

I think some of them might have had an insert signed by Betty Fox, but to Ken's point, not much different about those engines performance-wise except they do tend to bring a nice price when selling. I believe we sold a couple of the 50th black ones for about $325 each.
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Post  Onelife Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:26 pm

Yes the the 50th was supposed to have a signed prof of originality or something like that and the motor Mount is stamped with a number   I like to know how many were made   And I was checking out all the different manuals Fox came out with and I think it was the second round of engine’s they must have made them for a  clockwise rotation shaft if I read it correctly if anyone has info on that I would like to knmore about it. How would a regular Joe like me really know what way to start turn the prop ?  Fox 35 collectors edition  14619c10[url=https://servimg.com


http://foxmodelmotors.com/engines/35/35.htm

Here is the link if you look on the part list your see the option for the different rotation shaft.
How do you tell they are turn over both ways ?  Fox 35 collectors edition  Fa98d510
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Post  Onelife Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:34 pm

I would like to have a 50th anniversary model there is 1 on eBay listed as new for 114 I think but it clearly is not new and the guy is hardheaded and won’t budge and doesn’t listen to anything


Last edited by Onelife on Sat Jan 07, 2023 4:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post  Cribbs74 Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:28 pm

Personally I think the Pre ‘54 Foxes are far more valuable then the 50th Anniversary. They run like clockwork and you don’t have to worry about ruining the finish. From a collector standpoint you can get a few more dollars with the later model.
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Post  Onelife Sat Jan 07, 2023 4:10 am

Thanks for you opinion if I remember that’s befor they started messing with the NVA is that correct?
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Post  GallopingGhostler Sat Jan 07, 2023 4:22 am

Cribbs74 wrote:Personally I think the Pre ‘54 Foxes are far more valuable then the 50th Anniversary. They run like clockwork and you don’t have to worry about ruining the finish. From a collector standpoint you can get a few more dollars with the later model.
The earlier 3 bolt back Fox .35 Stunts are a touch lighter too, which may help in balancing some of the long nose CL planes (such as the SIG's) especially if one needs to mount a tongue muffler because of noise restrictions, IMO.
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Post  Onelife Sat Jan 07, 2023 4:25 am

Thanks
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Post  sosam117 Sat Jan 07, 2023 7:07 am

Well, here are mine and my brother's Fox Stunt 35 engines that we had back in 1973.
In the photos below My brother engraved his initials into the crankcase so I couldn't "borrow" his engine.
I cleaned both of them up and rebuilt both  of them as well.


On my engine I polished up the head to where it is nice and shiny.

Fox 35 collectors edition  Fox_3623
Fox 35 collectors edition  Fox_3624

I then mounted my brother motor in a display case and gave it to him as a Christmas present (X-Mas 2021)
My brother won a few trophies at the AMA Nat for stunts back in 1973 to 1978 with his Magician and Ringmaster planes.

I flew only the Ringmaster with my Fox Stunt 35.


Fox 35 collectors edition  Fox_3625
Fox 35 collectors edition  Fox_3627
Fox 35 collectors edition  Fox_3626
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Post  Onelife Sat Jan 07, 2023 8:31 am

Looking good
Good old combat specials
You don’t fly any more ?
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Post  Ken Cook Sun Jan 08, 2023 6:57 am

I've only ever come across 2 flying examples of this collectors edition engine that was in use. Both showed signs of use and some discoloration. I'm not aware of the counter rotation shaft and I personally see no reason for it. I surely would think that such an option would be noted and probably ordered that way. As stated in the manual you posted for the muffler, one could order the muffler tilt up but it came tilt down. I never figured that out. Many times the tilt down configuration is in the way of the landing gear when mounted profile.

         I've been a control line flyer a very long time. I enjoyed all aspects of this hobby. It is the lower end of the hobby and many who like myself enjoy it are quite frugal when it comes to purchases. Therefore, the majority of users of the Fox.35 are less likely to own one of these examples. I recall in the 80's that this engine was $80 when the stock .35 was less than $40. Chrome doesn't get you home. The introduction of this engine was also a very transitional point of this hobby. Control line was essentially dead. Many other aspects of the market was taking place such as the r/c car introductions. This may or may not have been a way of Fox reaching for something.


       TCI Hobbies was a company which I forget where they were located  posted in the model mags in the late 80's-90's. They were specific to control line flyers. They offered inexpensive combo offerings of commercial kits and engine packages which were usually your choice.  He offered a Fox .35 in colors with hemi-head, stuffer back, ABC piston sleeve assembly and a anodized tongue muffler to match.The engine also came equipped with a better needle valve assembly. I happen to own two of these engine which run remarkably well. The owner however abused the honor system of one sending money. He would deal with credit cards over the phone and checks in which he never made good on the orders and disappeared leaving everyone stuck wondering.

          I rarely see these examples of the Fox .35. The last one I saw was on EBAY and the owner had no idea what it was. The example I saw was a red and gold one. I have a dark blue and gold and a light blue and black version. These examples were quite expensive and more than likely only a nutcase like myself would purchase one. At the time, the Fox ABC piston liner was nearing $60 by itself. The hemi-head was the same head used by Larry Foster on his AAC renditions of the L&J Fox .35 which was offered as well. The L&J was balanced and blue printed using carbide inserts in the crankshaft. Having the AAC piston sleeve also was very smooth and a bit lighter. The L&J was first offered with a ABC setup like my TCI version.

Fox 35 collectors edition  Dscn3113  This is my last engine from them which was made available in the 50th case whereas the other is in the 40th. The prop washer, not the drive washer was aluminum when it came with this engine. It was similar to what many of the Japanese imports offer which is just a aluminum washer with a bevel on it. It was anodized gold but it was constantly slipping and the nut was digging into it so I replaced it back to the stock part.

Fox 35 collectors edition  Dscn3114   The needle valve assembly in this engine was replaced. Although the one that came with it was good, the Randy Smith PA series needle valves are the best money could buy. Unfortunately, these are no longer available, the spraybar was custom made just for the Fox having the proper diameter as the stock. Needles are currently available but no spraybar.

             The Brian Gardner ABC piston assemblies are just beautiful parts. I've converted most of my Fox .35's over to Brian's piston assembly. Impeccable runs and one flip starts. The rod is bushed on both ends with oil holes. Unlike the Fox conrod which was made in the stone age, the Gardener rod is stout. Fox 35 collectors edition  Dscn3116
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Post  Onelife Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:48 am

Ken you knowledge of these engines is honorable for sure. And that engine you have is Beautiful a work of art. I don’t understand some of these hater out there for the Fox I really don’t but who am I. I mean sure there’s better running but I can’t forget where I came from. I love that engine, when’s the last time you had it running? I would love to hear it. I alstheard I think from you for the first time about the hemi head and the stuffed back plate I still have my feelers out but there is none to be found. I would love to get my hands on one of those. I have 1 more Carl Goldberg shoestring to build I would try and build that to perfection and put one of those souped up engines in.
Are those parts still available the sleeve and pistol by any chance
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Post  Ken Cook Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:39 am

Brian Gardner makes the piston/cylinders based on numbers. He generally requires at least 20 and then he makes them. Covid put him almost 2 years behind on certain projects he has started. In addition, the aluminum I believe was from the Ukraine. This is stalled many projects for him. In addition, Brian does this as a hobby and not as a business. Many times he has made these to order and then the bs excuses happens when it's time to deliver.The wallet forgets to open when it's time to pay up. He has mentioned that he was going to catch up and then decide if he was going to do more. He might have a extra. These assemblies pre Covid were $100+ dollars and shipped from Australia.

There's several problems with the Fox. You love them or hate them. It's a cheaply built engine. It uses inferior materials and it's design is old as time. Duke wasn't willing to make changes as requested and the same old dinosaur you bought in the late 40's was still available in 90's. Quality control was quite poor which resulted in many sub par running engines. If one digs deep into the engine, you can figure out a few things to make them run better. If you ever have run a Max-s .35, you would know how smooth and beneficial that engine runs. It too had it's shortcomings but Duke should've taken some lessons on that engine.

I like them myself, I've used them all my life and I can diagnose essentially anything wrong with them. I've made parts for them and I've run them competitively in stunt. Some didn't want to believe my engine was a Fox .35. My Gardner engines essentially run like LA.25's now with the ABC setups.

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Post  Onelife Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:47 am

How would I get in touch with him I would be willing to get 3 right off the bat Unless you want to unload one. ?
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Post  Onelife Sun Jan 08, 2023 11:10 am

Bob brooks knows him well I just found out maybe I can go to  him


Last edited by Onelife on Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post  Onelife Sun Jan 08, 2023 12:20 pm

Just like you said he’s waiting on parts also ? Oh well
Meant to be I guess
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Post  Ken Cook Sun Jan 08, 2023 6:17 pm

I'm not looking to part with mine. I waited almost a year for my ABC assemblies and I'm happy to own them. Brian undersizes the bottom end of the rods so you have to fit these assemblies to your crank. This isn't exactly a easy process. Because of the way the underside of the piston is machined, the rod doesn't float back and forth like it does on the stock Fox. Even the stock Fox requires a bit of a trick to get the rod onto the crankpin. These assemblies are even more difficult with Brian's assembly. I've been running two of these engine simultaneously between two planes a Combat Streak and a Ringmaster. They're almost dialed in and they just run superb. I was fortunate to obtain new crankcases, shafts and heads to accommodate the new parts. Ever since Fox sold, I haven't been able to acquire new parts for the .35 stunt. Last year at a swap meet, I was able to buy the cases and parts.
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Post  Onelife Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:00 am

Yea I don’t blame you a bit they are very nice would love to hear them run. What year is the production on them ?
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Post  Ken Cook Tue Jan 10, 2023 4:33 pm

My dad and I purchased 15 40th anniversary engines when they were first introduced. I still have 2 of them new in the box. 2 of them were destroyed when I crashed a twin. I completely destroyed one on a Bi-Slob when it came in inverted over concrete. I then had another hit head on flying slow combat which shattered the crank bushing. Appearance wise, it didn't impact the engine's exterior but the bushing cracked inside in a zig zag break. The very first one had it's crankpin break off and every single piece of the engine with the exception of the head was destroyed. It ruined the con rod, crank, crankcase, piston and liner and backplate. Fox always accepted trade ins. I took most of those engines and traded them in. I was able to purchase 50th anniversary Fox's for $37 a piece with trade in. I removed all the good piston/liners from the 40th and saved them.
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Post  Onelife Wed Jan 11, 2023 8:48 am

Fox 35 collectors edition  B85f8710
So that blue one is a 40th anniversary ,    I got this engine from Canada, I never seen a NVA like this with this fitting, Are they good?


Last edited by Onelife on Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:24 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post  GallopingGhostler Wed Jan 11, 2023 9:59 am

Ken Cook wrote:The Brian Gardner ABC piston assemblies are just beautiful parts. I've converted most of my Fox .35's over to Brian's piston assembly. Impeccable runs and one flip starts. The rod is bushed on both ends with oil holes. Unlike the Fox conrod which was made in the stone age, the Gardener rod is stout.
Fox 35 collectors edition  Dscn3116
Having a lighter aluminum piston, it didn't vibrate as much making it that much more enjoyable to use, too?
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Post  Onelife Wed Jan 11, 2023 11:43 am

My mistake


Last edited by Onelife on Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post  Ken Cook Wed Jan 11, 2023 3:34 pm

I didn't make my engine blue, it was done by TCI Hobbies. The blue is powder coating baked on. My needle valve is a Randy Smith Aeroproducts stainless steel needle from Randy's PA series engines. Randy had them made for the Fox .35 which are no longer available. Your needle valve is a Fox needle valve. Nothing fancy about it, they were offered on the earlier Fox .35's. There a single hole spraybar whereas the needle for your Fox would've been a 2 hole spraybar and a needle with a flat on it.

In general, Fox quality suffers. The needle valves are pretty poor. They will and can work. Having a piece of fuel tubing on the needle to seal the threads on the spraybar is in order otherwise it starts sucking air through the threads. This can cause hard starting, erratic running and shutting off in the air. Duke used 3-48 threads most of the time and the threads are crude. This is one reason they leak bad. The other is the inconsistency from one piece to another,
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Post  Onelife Thu Jan 12, 2023 7:33 am

Ok I like the blueing. I will pull the needle value and replace it with one of bobs.
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