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Post  joel45acp Tue Jan 10, 2023 11:47 pm

Way back in the late 80's I had a P40 Warhawk I believe from Cox, but not sure. Anyways, I got to fly it once before other toys garnered my interest. Well, fast forward some 40yrs later and I've been bitten by the bug once again. I have a Golden Bee and I'm wanting to build a CL and a RC model as well. I have been flying RC for nearly 35yrs so I'm confident I can fly the much smaller planes than what I'm accustomed to. Would the Golden Bee be appropriate for both CL and RC or should I look for a better engine for RC? Which CL model would you gents recommend? I do have several RC models I'm eyeing at the moment, one being a design of mine, but scaled down. TIA
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Post  layback209 Wed Jan 11, 2023 12:22 am

Hi Joel, welcome back. For controlline I'd suggest considering the sig 1/2a skyray. It's a plank wing but flys really good (loops, lazy 8s), your bee will power it perfectly. Once your comfortable again you can look for a built up wing from brodak. The non stretch woven 10lb spider wire fishing line works fantastic over the dracon classic strings. Way less drag and more control.

https://brodak.com/

I think for rc might be fun to slap the bee on one of those arf foamies. I'll let others chime in on the rc end. I only have 40 size planes for rc.
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Post  batjac Wed Jan 11, 2023 1:52 am

Hi Joel.  Welcome back to control line.  The Skyray is a good choice, but unfortunately SIG sis not selling them at this point.  What you can do is get the plans for it.  Not from SIG, but from a guy named Pat King.  He sells plans and kits for all kinds of planes and boats.  He sells plans for what he calls a Skyray Racer (https://stunthanger.com/smf/pdk-llc-laser-cut-kits/skyray-racer/msg530151/#msg530151).  It's the exact same dimensions as the SIG Skyray, but the plans are to use basswood instead of balsa wood.  You can get the .pdf of the plane for $5.00 from Pat and just build it with balsa. I did that for two Skyrays for an upcoming contest and for a club one-design.

But, if you don't want to pay the $5.00 for the .pdf (and to tell the truth, I probably wouldn't either), you can download plans for the Beginners Ringmaster, which is a sheet wing plane.  Or, if you like building, a Baby Ringmaster would be a good fit for the Golden Bee.  See this CEF thread: https://www.coxengineforum.com/t16919-help-needed-with-beginner-baby-ringmaster

I know a lot of people like Spider Wire fishing line for control line, but I prefer Spectra braided fishing line. 10# test is more than enough for 1/2A planes. Whatever you choose, make sure it's braided line to prevent line stretch and control issues.



For the RC plane, two designs come to mind, both available on Outerzone.  The Q-Tee, which is a perennial favorite of 1/2A flyers for the past forty-five years, and what I taught myself to fly with. What I'd also recommend is the RCM 1/2A Basic Trainer.  Classic lines and incredibly easy to build and fly.

I'd link to the Outerzone plans pages, but OZ seems to be down for scheduled maintenance right now.  I'll update tomorrow when OZ is back up.

The Cutie Mark
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Post  joel45acp Wed Jan 11, 2023 2:12 am

batjac wrote:Hi Joel.  Welcome back to control line.  The Skyray is a good choice, but unfortunately SIG sis not selling them at this point.  What you can do is get the plans for it.  Not from SIG, but from a guy named Pat King.  He sells plans and kits for all kinds of planes and boats.  He sells plans for what he calls a Skyray Racer  It's the exact same dimensions as the SIG Skyray, but the plans are to use basswood instead of balsa wood.  You can get the .pdf of the plane for $5.00 from Pat and just build it with balsa. I did that for two Skyrays for an upcoming contest and for a club one-design.

But, if you don't want to pay the $5.00 for the .pdf (and to tell the truth, I probably wouldn't either), you can download plans for the Beginners Ringmaster, which is a sheet wing plane.  Or, if you like building, a Baby Ringmaster would be a good fit for the Golden Bee.  

I know a lot of people like Spider Wire fishing line for control line, but I prefer Spectra braided fishing line.  10# test is more than enough for 1/2A planes.  Whatever you choose, make sure it's braided line to prevent line stretch and control issues.



For the RC plane, two designs come to mind, both available on Outerzone.  The Q-Tee, which is a perennial favorite of 1/2A flyers for the past forty-five years, and what I taught myself to fly with. What I'd also recommend is the RCM 1/2A Basic Trainer.  Classic lines and incredibly easy to build and fly.

I'd link to the Outerzone plans pages, but OZ seems to be down for scheduled maintenance right now.  I'll update tomorrow when OZ is back up.

The Cutie Mark

Thanks for the info bud.  I did look up the Baby Ringmaster and that's right up my alley for C/L.  As for as the R/C side of it, I think I'm going with a small stik-like design I'm currently working on in CAD.  I've been designing planes for more than 30yrs and I get great satisfaction doing so.  I would do the same with a C/L plane, but being that I've never done so, I'd like to build my first one from plans.  Thanks again for your insight
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Post  944_Jim Wed Jan 11, 2023 11:10 am

Hi,
Welcome back to childhood #2! I'll hand this off for reference now, and add more "welcome" later. Yep, that Golden Bee should be just fine for just about anything 1/2A you want to do. There may be a few configuration changes depending on use. In particular, fuel pickup location for intended flight. Note the premier Cox vendors are Cox International out of Canada, and EXModel Engines out of the USA.

The Cottage Industry supports our little hobby very well. Pat King is top-shelf. Others below in order of preference:

http://dpcmodels.homestead.com/SRKS.html
I've done quite a bit of commerce with Dave Cowell, the proprietor. His reproduction kits are fabulous, and detailed as the originals. Expect more work on your part (shaping leading/trailing edges, laminating thinner stock to thicker specs, other sundry differences are much more minor, like plywood bellcranks).

https://vintageperformancemodelairplanes.com/
Stan F. has a following with great/positive feedback on RCGroups and  Facebook. I have no experience with him...but his kits look great! He markets a Stuntman-23 if you are going really simple.

https://willynillies.com/
Another kit cutter with a following on RCGroups. I have no experience with him.

If you care to scratch build, then you need to go to:

https://outerzone.co.uk/index.asp
In particular, search for Top Flite plans by one of our members here. He did the whole Beginner's built-up wing/profile fuselage series (thanks DuaneH!), I know there is a Scientific P-40, also with built-up wings/profile fuselage (and even available from DPCModels...build log by yours truly here).

https://aerofred.com/

There are others that escape me at the moment.

You will note that what you learned 40 years ago is still around, but by different names...and in different markets. An example is nitrate dope (your initial dope for adhering tissue). I use Deft Clear Lacquer sanding sealer (ordered into local Mom/Pop hardware store) instead, followed by old Pactra AeroGloss dope for fuel proofing. Really old...so I'll need to learn new paints soon.

I'm a sucker for Ambroid (no longer available). SIG markets SIG-ment, which is very similar...and can be found in bulk at Archery shops as "celluloid fletching glue."

Since you do RC, I'd say go with a build-up wing/profile fuselage as others have suggested. Maybe a Combat Kitten or Lil Satan (see Stan F, above). They crash well, and repair fairly easily. They will out-perform a slabby. But if you want fast and crash-proof, look into a Coroplast  ManWin trainer. .they just about bounce back and continue flying.

Jump in slowly...been lots of changes to the industry, and they will challenge what you "used to know."


Last edited by 944_Jim on Wed Jan 11, 2023 1:09 pm; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : More info and spelling...and more spelling)
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Post  joel45acp Wed Jan 11, 2023 10:09 pm

Thanks for the wealth of knowledge Jim. 👍👍👍
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Post  duaneh Thu Jan 12, 2023 10:37 pm

Joel, welcome to the madness!
Like you, I had a Cox P-40, but it was in the early '70's. I've been flying RC since the late '80's, and just recently came back to CL.

You've gotten some excellent advice already. I will add that while your Golden Bee is fine for a floater like the Q-tee, it will be marginal for a faster, more aerobatic plane. If you want your stik to fly like a .40 size stik, it will need a TeeDee. If you really want to get the blood flowing, put the TeeDee on an Ace GLH. My RC club used to hold 1/2A pylon races, and I built a racer called the Undertaker. It was a step beyond the GLH. 4 such planes screaming around the pylons is truly bedlam unleashed.

For CL, since you are an experienced builder, I think you should skip the slab wingers. Instead, build a Baby Flite Streak, or one of the Top Flite Junior Aces series. The Golden Bee will be fine on any of those.

Plans for all of the planes I mentioned are available on Outerzone. If you do build one of the Junior Aces, I would appreciate your feedback on the plan.

Duaneh 44spl
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Post  Coxfledgling Fri Jan 13, 2023 7:16 am

It's possible to easily fit a "throttle" to a bee...they are relatively inexpensive...
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Post  joel45acp Fri Jan 13, 2023 7:20 am

Coxfledgling wrote:It's possible to easily fit a "throttle" to a bee...they are relatively inexpensive...

Actually, mine has the throttle/sleeve thingy on it already.
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Post  944_Jim Fri Jan 13, 2023 12:26 pm

Thanks, Duane, for jumping in. I couldn't remember "Junior Aces." I just remember the fine job you did on digitizing the series.

Just because I appreciate Duane's work:
https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=13602
https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=13601
https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=13600

Others have mentioned the Baby Flight Streak:
https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=4540

Joel,
You can use a threaded pushrod, snap clevis, and elevator horn behind the engine to anchor the throttle ring. Adjusting would be as simple as unclip the clevis and turn it a smidge to adjust engine speed either up or down before each flight. I doubt "slowest" would fly a plane, but just a bit slower may help, and increase engine speed as confidence goes up.
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Post  GallopingGhostler Fri Jan 13, 2023 1:27 pm

joel45acp wrote:Way back in the late 80's I had a P40 Warhawk I believe from Cox, but not sure.  Anyways, I got to fly it once before other toys garnered my interest.  Well, fast forward some 40yrs later and I've been bitten by the bug once again.  I have a Golden Bee and I'm wanting to build a CL and a RC model as well.  I have been flying RC for nearly 35yrs so I'm confident I can fly the much smaller planes than what I'm accustomed to.  Would the Golden Bee be appropriate for both CL and RC or should I look for a better engine for RC?  Which CL model would you gents recommend?  I do have several RC models I'm eyeing at the moment, one being a design of mine, but scaled down.  TIA
Joel, because you are an experienced builder and flyer, even though mostly R/C, as you well know, if an engine is properly matched up to an airframe, you will have enjoying and pleasurable flights. I guess it also depends on how complex you want to go in construction.

I built a Goldberg 42" Junior Cessna 182 Skylane in the 1970's, (lost in a strong updraft just moments before a raging thunderstorm), which although a beautiful aircraft, was the most complex I had built. Overall, I prefer more straight forward sport aircraft that are easier to build.

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=868

It just depends how deep and wide you want to go. The Golden Bee is an excellent engine on aircraft of 200 to 250 sq. in. wing area. Many of the 2 channel aircraft designs 30 to 50 years ago would work. Since current R/C gear is reasonably lightweight, main thing is lightweight construction so wing loading is low, doesn't tax the engine. Lightweight covering material come to mind along with minimal paint schemes (for example, clear doped wood finishes with color trim).

With its limited power, you won't have the exhilarating climbs a larger engine of twice its HP would provide, stunts such as loops requiring entering a dive to build up speed first. But, for a fun lazy afternoon on a no or light breeze day, at least for me, can provide a quite an enjoyable afternoon just boring holes in the sky.

On the CL side, although the simpler sheet balsa trainers / sport models were not as aerodynamic, they were sturdier, able to withstand crashes much better especially when flown over grass. Often, I'd just straighten the landing gear, replace a broken prop if necessary, wash off any grit with the fully exposed engine, refuel, and fly again. If you aren't a seasoned CL flier, then that might be the best start. Flying over grass would also spare your Golden Bee of damages that might be prevalent flying over concrete or asphalt.

Other solution is spare your Golden Bee and obtain another sport engine that you wouldn't mind damaging to help through the learning curve.

Anyway, just a few of my thoughts.
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