Took an engine out last week

TATRA and SKODA  have been traditional vehicle brands in former Czechoslovakia dating back at least 100 years in history.I noted Lieven's affection of Tatra cars of the 60-s. In my recollection of the era in Eastern Europe those days,  these were not that popular cars behind the Iron Curtain, maybe it was their futuristic,  streamlined body that had some appeal?

But Czechoslovakian (after the split of the 2 countries, Czech today) industry has always been many paces ahead of the rest of the Eastern European region..

Skoda car factory, the other historical Czech car maker, was acquired by the VW group 30 or so years ago, and the brand today belongs to some of the most reliable and attractive middle category sedans and SUV-s made in Europe. German engineering of VW alone could not have established the reputation Skoda has earned by today.  had it not been for the Czech industrial culture. The other branch of Skoda has for long manufactured industrial steam turbines, and was recently acquired by South Korean power plant construction giant Doosan. The turbines made in the Czech factory work in medium size thermal power stations around the world, on all continents, thanks to their quality and competitiveness.
So the nucleus of Czech engineering that once produced the Tatra cars have grown by today  into s major industrial conglomerate that is present in the global industry among brand name, reputable peers in the auto and power plant domain.

I remember using Skoda lathe tools in the past.

The Tatra 603 was never sold to the public. Exceptions can be counted on 1 hand. They all were destined for government and official use in czechoslovakia, DDR or USSR. I know of 1 car that was exported in the mid 60's to a Dutch importer of Tatra trucks and the 603 that was at the Brussels motor show in 1959 remained in Belgium.

rsv1cox wrote:I'm green with envy Lieven.  Wish I had been there to help/watch.  

Engine looks good on the outside.  The body on that rare car...........I would be tempted to restore.  It can't be much worse than the MG I did a couple of years ago.

Thanks for sharing.  Updates, updates!

Bob

Bob, the bottom part of this car is just a carastrophy. It's a car for the Flintstones. The car is at my dad's place in Belgium. The one I have in my garage is a 1963 model and one of the first T2 603 's. The production started in December '63. The body is very sound with only some minor body work and has still got it's original engine. So I 'll concentrate on that one. I bought the car in the late 90's and I' m decided to get on with it.
To be continued...

Hi Lieven! It's really great to see you working on a Tatra. A few questions; Is that 1966 engine itself made/designed by Tatra? What is displacement in litres? How about the gearbox in your "63"? How many forward gears/ratio? I would assume that the ignition system is a mechanical distributor with breaker-points/condensor with a coil to provide the spark? Then again; the European Automobile industry was decades ahead of the United States auto makers of that era. General Motors "did" produce a mechanical Rochester fuel-injection system in 1957 for select Chevrolet Corvette and Belair models. That system was however plagued with unreliability issues.

Wishing you all the best of luck getting it roadworthy. I miss our emails.. it's been a long time.

roddie wrote:Hi Lieven! It's really great to see you working on a Tatra. A few questions; Is that 1966 engine itself made/designed by Tatra? What is displacement in litres? How about the gearbox in your "63"?  How many forward gears/ratio? I would assume that the ignition system is a mechanical distributor with breaker-points/condensor with a coil to provide the spark? Then again; the European Automobile industry was decades ahead of the United States auto makers of that era. General Motors "did" produce a mechanical Rochester fuel-injection system in 1957 for select Chevrolet Corvette and Belair models. That system was however plagued with unreliability issues.

Wishing you all the best of luck getting it roadworthy. I miss our emails.. it's been a long time.

Thanks Roddie, The engine is a 2,5 litre. Nothing wild. There is even no valve overlap.The gearbox is very classic with 4 forward gear and reverse. The engine has coil ignition and became electronic in 1970 or so.  4 disc brakes were introduced in 1967.

I took off the 2 right doors and removed both benches. Underneath the front bench is the fuel powered heater with its proper electric fuel pump, fuel filter and the electrics to ignite. The bonnet went off as well, the 2 rear air ducts and the rear quarter lights. And then a lot of cleaning and sweeping the rust that covers the garage floor.

Hi Lieven! It's good to see you're working on the Tatra again!! To recap; you're restoring a 1963 T2 603.. and you have a "66" donor engine. Will the "66" engine (or some of its parts..) be going into the "63" chassis?

rsv1cox wrote:Rust!  AKA "The tin worm."  

I gather this is the better of the two, the really bad one is still at your fathers house?  

Everytime I see pictures like that it stimulates me to do another restoration.  My morning news feed usually features some sort of a "barn find" and I think..."if I could only get my hands on one of those forgotten treasures" ................

I'm looking forward to see what you do with it.

No, this one is to take apart and to save every part that can be salvaged. The body, or what's left of it, will be cut in pieces.

This is the good one of 1963:



This car has its original engine that still runs fine. The 1966 engine needs to be overhauled. Both engines are exactly the same.

Nice! Same identical engines.. Looks like X2 1bbl carbs/throttle-bodies on these?

roddie wrote:Nice! Same identical engines.. Looks like X2 1bbl carbs/throttle-bodies on these?

2x double carburettors Jikov 30 SOPP

I wonder when the first "heater-cores" found their way into our automobiles? Conventionalradiators for cooling the engine were already in use for how long?

A little research on the web came up with Cadillac offering the first "heater core" in their 1926 models as an accessory/add-on.

old timers talk about the old gas heaters in vehicles

Another page of car heater history

https://www.hagerty.com/media/automotive-history/early-days-of-car-heaters/

This page has an image of an advert for Bob's Stewart Warner heater. It really has the look of a 30's streamlined steam locomotive front.

Edit:In fact, it is the front of a GG-1. Just replace the round logo by a keystone!!

It is amazing what is available to us. Following the links above, found an engine rebuilder who can rebuild the old Ford Model T engine, install hardened valve seats and valves for use with modern no lead fuel. Install sleeves and better pistons to restore fit and finish.

These early heaters are very interesting, and amazed that retrofits are still available. Thanks for posting links and photos.

Going back a bit further, remember from the old advertisements of a heating system for the old horse drawn coaches, so that passengers could stay warm. They used wood or coal, were fue'd to the outside. Also it is amazing, the early heating systems for passenger coaches on coal burning trains.

I remember my parent's 1964 Ford Falcon 4 door sedan with 200 c.i. in-line 6 and Ford-O-Matic 2 speed automatic transmission, single speed wipers, AM transistor mono channel radio. It didn't even have a heater, only a factory installed metal cover, common in Hawaii in those days. Was a PITA during rainy weather, as the interior windows would fog up. Shortly after, all cars came with interior heating systems for this reason. Some lacked a heater core. (Temps year 'round were 65°F Winter to higher 80°F Summer, Most cars didn't even have air conditioning.

Would I want one of these earlier historic cars? Not for the moment. Life is too short for me, concentrating on music, my saxophones, helping others.

But, I enjoy reading about these endeavors. Maybe one day I'll refurb an old motorcycle, make it a fun rider, a mid-size, about my speed for the moment.

The heater in my citroën traction avant was rather rudimentary. The system was introduced on the 1939 models. A metal funnel was bolted on one side of the radiator and was the connected to a long flat pipe ans further a rubber leading to the space next to the driver's feet. When driving, air, forced through the radiator, should heat up and proceed it's way via the pipe into the car. Very inefficient to say the least.





I removed all that in the mid nineties and installed a period heater using cooling water. It's a Smiths circular heater often found on British cars. It is mounted on the scuttle below the dash. There is a fan and a side opening for a demister installation which I haven't got, so I directed that opening towards the driver's feet. Near the steering column, there is a valve to stop water circulation.

The heater as mounted in my car and a 1956 advert (the year my car was built) of the Smiths heater.

OVERLORD wrote:Underneath the front bench is the fuel powered heater with its proper electric fuel pump, fuel filter and the electrics to ignite.

In US, although there has been stride to use the metric system, still, the industry prefers to use the old English system. I grew up on the old system, went to college on the old system.

This website has a calculator to convert kcal/hr to btu/h or btuh:

https://www.traditionaloven.com/tutorials/power/convert-kilocalorie-kcal-per-h-to-btu-per-hour.html


Just a hair under 12,000 btuh. Figuring the car is basically a glass house insulation wise, (single pane window is R-1, thin padded interior panels with exterior sheet metal and air space between a touch higher in R value, floor sheet metal with rubber or carpet floor mats), just a gut level feeling, but the car wasn't toasty warm during the coldest winter nights, although was better than nothing.

Am I wrong?

Your 1963 Tatra 603 resembles something of US manufacture in late 1940's - early 1950's. Example,
https://barnfinds.com/original-paint-1949-chevrolet-deluxe-fastback/

Webpage photo: 1949 Chevrolet Deluxe Fastback

Since Chekslovakia was under Communist rule, this would be understandable. Found a pristene sample of one on the webpage:

https://www.classic.com/veh/1972-tatra-t603-12973-nlmwXdW/

Photo from webpage.

It sold recently in US for an amazing price of $33,250.

When yours is completed, it should be a thing of beauty to behold.