"Killer Bee Crankcase" ?

Kim Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:33 pm

OK...just got off the phone with my bud Patrick, who informed me (again) that the "Killer Bee" he built up back years ago will run OK on the ground but always quits in the air. He says this is due to the fact that it doesn't have a Killer Bee "Crankcase".

I've got no experience with Killer Bees, but figured that the cases were still just regular cases, with all the magic being in the crank, backplate, cylinder/piston, ect. Patrick insists that he "called and talked to someone at Cox" and they told him that the crankcase "couldn't handle all of the extra fuel coming through because of the KB crankshaft being used in a regular case".

I'm tired and a little punchy, and so didn't argue with him. He can be somewhat of a B.S. artist with his "quotes from sources", but figured I'd let it ride 'till we could trouble-shoot the engine...which he says will not help because of the "wrong" crankcase.

In the meantime, any of you Killer Bee guys ever heard of this? If I'm wrong, I'll gladly take the correction, resisting the urge to wrap his engine in my slingshot and shoot him with it...

Jason_WI Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:39 pm

I have a pre 96 KB and the crankcase looks the same except for the gold color. Here is a pick of the inside of mine.

Cox International Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:47 pm

As far as we know, KB crankcases are the same as the Babe Bee ones but I could see if we have a specific KB crankcase drawing.

Ken Cook Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:48 pm

Cox did allow about .002 clearance on the crank on the original Killer Bee. Other than that, the case is identical. Many of us ditched the case and went with Kustom Kraftmanship cases that were bronze bushed. The Cox cases once the anodizing wore off were pretty much spent. Ken

Kim Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:52 pm

Ken Cook wrote: Cox did allow about .002 clearance on the crank on the original Killer Bee. Other than that, the case is identical. Many of us ditched the case and went with Kustom Kraftmanship cases that were bronze bushed. The Cox cases once the anodizing wore off were pretty much spent. Ken

So THIS would cause the engine to get snarky in a the air as opposed to running OK on the ground?

dckrsn Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:00 pm

Here's one of the KustomKraftmanship cases with heat treated crank.
Bob

Ken Cook Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:19 pm

Hi Kim, the case in my opinion isn't the problem. The clearance Cox provided allowed the engine to turn up a bit more. In my opinion in this diagnosis, I would say the venturi is too large. If it's running on the ground and the second it gets airborne it quits, it sounds like the opening is suspect here. Assuming the engine hasn't been tampered with, I would check for airleaks etc. Is this engine on bladder or tank? Ken

Ken Cook Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:21 pm

Bob consider yourself lucky owning that wonderful piece of craftmanship. That case rules. I own a few myself and I love the smoothness they deliver in the run of the engine. Nice picture you took it really shows a good example of the bronze bushing. Ken

microflitedude Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:28 pm

I have a genuine anodized KB case. Like everyone else has said, I can't see any differences.

**RknRusty** Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:43 pm

I learn something every day. I never knew of the bronze bushings in Cox engines. I worked with machines with feed rollers bushed with bronze bearings. They take on oil like a sponge and bear the load of the turning rollers for hundreds of millions of revolutions without failing.

Kim Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:50 pm

Ken Cook wrote: Hi Kim, the case in my opinion isn't the problem. The clearance Cox provided allowed the engine to turn up a bit more. In my opinion in this diagnosis, I would say the venturi is too large. If it's running on the ground and the second it gets airborne it quits, it sounds like the opening is suspect here. Assuming the engine hasn't been tampered with, I would check for airleaks etc. Is this engine on bladder or tank? Ken

Patrick's only run it in his PT-19...and some sheet balsa plane...I think....his stories can take some hard turns that lose me. He IS a little different, but I've been hanging in there with him, trying to help him get his planes flying and get his skills polished up a bit....in between his tall tales of long-past model airplane adventures.

My plan WAS to help him go through the engine and help him make sure that the normal stuff was all good, but he was adamant that the crank/case just won't work, saying, "Well, I guess YOU know more than the people at Cox", so I'm about ready tell him to park it where the sun don't shine.

We'll see...figure I just need to get some sleep and recharge my patience !!!

Thanks for all the great responses to this somewhat goofy post/question !

lousyflyer Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:17 pm

As a guess I'd say he's not using filtered fuel. He's got trash in the fuel tank. The centrifugal force of flight will send the heavy debris over to the pickup line, choking off the fuel flow and causing the engine to die. It usually happens within a lap or two after takeoff.

I've seen this happen with Babe Bee tanks and Perfect Metal tanks.

Kim Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:38 pm

lousyflyer wrote:As a guess I'd say he's not using filtered fuel. He's got trash in the fuel tank. The centrifugal force of flight will send the heavy debris over to the pickup line, choking off the fuel flow and causing the engine to die. It usually happens within a lap or two after takeoff.

I've seen this happen with Babe Bee tanks and Perfect Metal tanks.

Thanks! I'm thinking that it's one of these. The contamination is a real possibility in that he doesn't do any post-run work-just chucks the plane in a corner 'till he flys again. I'm gonna offer to put the plane/engine on my table, and do a basic "go-through", but I'll have to get it alone to do it.

Anyway, I can only offer....

lousyflyer Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:44 pm

If he lets you run the engine, just tip it over hard to the side and let gravity do it's job. If there's trash in there, it will go right to the pickup.

I'd take it apart regardless.

Ken Cook Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:54 pm

The Killer Bee doesn't have a screen either. We get these seed like thingy's in the grass around here that get sucked into the engine. Drives me out of my mind. I've had the engine run on the ground and do the same thing as you said it was doing. They look like little tiny rye seeds. Just a thought, but it certainly doesn't take much to foul up the reed. Ken

andrew Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:01 pm

Ken Cook wrote: We get these seed like thingy's in the grass around here that get sucked into the engine.
Ken

Same thing has happened to me. I couldn't believe that the seed worked itself up into the venturi intake and got under the reed.

**Admin** Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:09 pm

andrew wrote:
Ken Cook wrote: We get these seed like thingy's in the grass around here that get sucked into the engine.
Ken

Same thing has happened to me. I couldn't believe that the seed worked itself up into the venturi intake and got under the reed.

LOL, reminds me of a funny story. A few years back my grandpa was having trouble with his Craftsman Lawn Tractor and he eventually called a service guy out as it was still under warranty and was covered by the plan. They looked up and down but couldn't find anything wrong with it, about an hour later he pulled off the gas cap and noticed the vent in the cap was plugged with a seed from the birch tree we have in the backyard. LOL, ran great right after it was removed!

dckrsn Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:33 pm

Ken Cook wrote: Bob consider yourself lucky owning that wonderful piece of craftmanship. That case rules. I own a few myself and I love the smoothness they deliver in the run of the engine. Nice picture you took it really shows a good example of the bronze bushing. Ken

Thanks Ken.

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