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Four engines and two mufflers

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Four engines and two mufflers

Post  RknRusty on Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:14 pm

Here are the four engines I have. So far the only one I have run is the fp35 on the Skyray. If the rest run as well as that one, then I'll consider this a treasure haul. I posted these pictures because I'm just fishing for any info, opinions or comments y'all may have to offer. I am curious to know the differences in power output between the different types, like for instance between the fp and the MAX-S, and whether the throttled one is even a good C/L engine if I get the right venturi. Anyway, here they are.

Here's the OS fp35 that I've been flying on the Skyray. Not Italicized, so steel I think.



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Here's the OS fp40 on the Clownlikething that I will fly next week. The FP is not really italicized, but slanted... Maybe ABC/ABN??? I'll have to borrow the drive plate and prop washer from another one when I use it.



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Here's the OS MAX-S 35 engine with an RC(or carrier) throttle. Steel or ABC??? I don't know.



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Here's the Enya 35



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And here are the two mufflers I have. I'd like to have a couple more of the small one. It only weighs 1-1/2 ounces.
And while we're on the subject, when I'm fueled up and waiting my turn to fly, I clamp off the pressure line so it doesn't dribble fuel out. I thought of putting a check valve in line, but haven't, because it seems like it would allow too much pressure to build up in the tank.

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Re: Four engines and two mufflers

Post  Jason_WI on Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:11 pm

The later OS FP engines with the aluminum piston are ABN. The S-35 had a meehanite (sp) piston.
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Re: Four engines and two mufflers

Post  Cribbs74 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:27 pm

Your FP .40 looks like an ABN the .35 looks like steel going by the bulge on the case. The max is a steel baffle piston and the Enya is steel as well. The Enya is a really good CL engine based on my reading. They all are good though.

When I say "steel" I mean not aluminum, could be the meehannite material Jason is referring to.

Ron
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Re: Four engines and two mufflers

Post  Ken Cook on Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:29 am

If you take note on the FP.35, it has a bulge on the front of the case just in front of the OS casting. This is on the opposing side of the exhaust. Your Fp .40 doesn't have that. The bulge on the case indicates iron piston steel liner.

The MAX-S is iron piston as well. A very good engine for stunt. It does have some shortcomings if not taken care of. The rods were the weakness in that engine and they would egg out.Another problem was the brass end pads on the wrist pin. These would wear out and cut grooves into the liner rendering the engine useless. Solution, use castor.  The area that rides on the crank pin is bushed but it had a coating similar to titanium nitride. Once wore off the rod would just hammer itself into submission. The key factor was to just not run the engine too hard.

The screws are of a special size for the MAX-s. The Fp series will not interchange with that engine. Another critical factor is venturi size. Jim Lee knows the required size for that engine and the specific spraybar size. Although the newer LA needle fits, the spraybar diameter is not correct in the throat area of the venturi. Tom Lay was monumental in providing some of the best running OS MAX-s.  engines. Tom just recently passed sad to say.

While many of the newer LA engine have a few parts that interchang the OS MAX-s doesn't therefore gaskets and so forth are virtually nonexistent. I do have a few backplate gaskets however, I just need to locate them.

In terms of power between the OS MAX-s and the FP's........ night and day. The FP's are high timed engines that don't run a 4-2 break and wouldn't like a 4-2 run. They swing light pitched props at higher rpm's. The MAX-s likes a 10x6 EW if you can locate the EW (Extra Wide). It does run a nice 4-2 and it runs very smooth. I'm sure you've heard the discussion of the shaky Fox. The OS MAX has a extremely smooth run with slightly more power than the Fox (depending on the Fox). Match the power of the OS MAX-s with the same size airframe as the Fox .35. The FP's however can go larger in squares. My Oriental I had with me to show you was powered by a Fox .35. The ideal powerplant for that size plane would indeed be a OS FP.40. I stayed with tradiition but I'm running that Fox to the max on that plane. The FP.40 wouldn't break a sweat doing so. The difference though is that the FP .40 is 3 ounces heavier.

The Enya is a sweet running engine equally, it does have it's quirks as well. THe main problem was getting it to break in. They last FOREVER. Just keep an eye on the front case and make sure it's tight and no other worries. If the front of the case comes loose, the engine will not run it will shut off immediately.

In terms of fuel, some will claim that each engine needs specifics fuels of various oil ratios and oil types for each one, we run all of the above engines on 1 type of fuel which you know what that is. For stunt though, the FP's we run are generally on 5% nitro to keep the power down. They will run just fine on 10% but the run time will be shortened slightly. Ken
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Re: Four engines and two mufflers

Post  RknRusty on Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:19 pm

Good answers, Thanks. I'm pasting the above text into my engine notes.

Tomorrow I'll try to get that FP40 cranked. It might be more engine than needed for the plane it's mounted on, which without the drive plate, prop washer and prop is about 39 ounces. It's still a little stiff, and lord knows what's inside of that old tank, but I'll flush out the whole thing, put a new crap trap on it and give it a rip.  If it doesn't seem to be a good match after I test fly it, I might bolt up the Enya 35 if the screw holes are the same.

BTW, I weighed the Skyray and it's just over 37 ounces. I think a lot of folks run 25s on their Rays, but mine is probably heavier with the added fixed flaps and larger tail feathers. And its builder didn't sand anything as far as I can tell, but it works nicely for me, so I'm sticking with it. I've been too ill to fly this week, I can barely read and type. Hopefully next week will be much better. I have an Pica ME-109 RC kit that 66 Malibu gave me that I might try to trade for a new Skyray kit. Anyone interested, let me know. I was thinking of a Streak for my Winter build, but I think a Streaky looking new Skyray would be better for my new CLPS career.Very Happy 

Rusty

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Re: Four engines and two mufflers

Post  Mark Boesen on Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:10 pm

Rusty,
Opinions are like a nose, pretty much everybody's got one, but i'd look to build something with flaps, a Cardinal or maybe a Banshee, they'd not take that much more time to build and the .40fp would be perfect!
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Re: Four engines and two mufflers

Post  Cribbs74 on Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:24 pm

Rusty,

I was going to suggest the 35FP so you could lighten it up a little however, it's about the same weight.

So..... If it's flying well now just leave it. You could use the Max S and save almost 2 oz, but not sure if you would end up adding weight to compensate. If the bolt patterns are similar you could just try them all out and see what works best.

I thought the Skyray was bigger like 500sq" I guess it's not. It's not my favorite design so I haven't done much research on it. I know Brett Buck touts it as being a good trainer, but I am with Mark on the Banshee or Fancherized Twister. The Cardinal is just awesome!!!

As you know I am doing the Twister this winter. Also not one of my favorite designs although I have flown one and it flys well and is very capable. It was given to me in order to hone my skills.

Sig CL kits are cheap right now...

Anyway, it's something to think about and in the end it's what works best for you.

Ron

Edit: Get well man!!!!
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Re: Four engines and two mufflers

Post  Cribbs74 on Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:32 pm

I forgot to add this link:

http://modelenginenews.org/engrev/

I use it to look up engine weights.
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Re: Four engines and two mufflers

Post  Mark Boesen on Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:54 pm

Hi Ron,

Nice link, it would also be worth while to look at hp vs. oz.

I lean toward the FP as props, fuel & parts are all easy to come by and produce more torque than the others.

Rusty, somewhere i have copies of the series of Ted Fanchier's articals on the Twister (basicly same plane as Banshee) lmk and i can make copies, but for the cost diff, you might want to look at the Cardinal. I've built four Banshees over the years, two flew great, one never did and one i was too young to tell, but none flew close to what the Cardinal did!
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Re: Four engines and two mufflers

Post  Ken Cook on Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:55 am

I agree Mark, the Banshee to me is a nice looking plane. I don't care for the looks of the Twister, but it seems to be the plane of choice at our field. It builds quickly and flies well. I just don't like it as far as profiles are concerned. I truly wish that Sig used a good quality ply on the doublers (easily replaced) opposed to the lite ply they use. The other factor is that Both Twister and Banshee were designed around a unmuffled Fox .35 so cutting every bit of 2" off the nose would be a good choice if you choose to use a heavier engine. The FP.40 is an excellent choice provided you stiffen up the front end a bit. Both of these planes have a long front end and a tripler like the Cardinal would be in the cards if I was to build one.

All of the engines that Rusty posted above will fly both of those planes with no issues. In terms of .35's, he has a great selection of engines to use. Ken
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Re: Four engines and two mufflers

Post  RknRusty on Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:38 am

You guys! My head is swirling with models I need, models I want, Yiiiii!lol!

Just a peek inside the confusion: I also want one of those beautiful red and black Orientals. Seeing Ken's green one was the last straw for that model. This is getting worse than the 25 car garage I always wanted. I like Wayne's Cardinal a lot too.


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Re: Four engines and two mufflers

Post  Mark Boesen on Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:42 am

....ok, so how 'bout a Brodak Oriental profile, in SC colors!!!!
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Re: Four engines and two mufflers

Post  pkrankow on Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:55 am

RknRusty wrote:You guys! My head is swirling with models I need, models I want, Yiiiii!lol!

Just a peek inside the confusion: I also want one of those beautiful red and black Orientals. Seeing Ken's green one was the last straw for that model. This is getting worse than the 25 car garage I always wanted. I like Wayne's Cardinal a lot too.

Ah! You don't NEED a 25 car garage to store 25 models in flight ready condition though. That many models can fit in the space above the hood of 1 car parked in the garage!

Phil
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Re: Four engines and two mufflers

Post  SuperDave on Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:10 am

There is no such thing as too much storage space.

Corrolary: Problem is you soon fill with "stuff". lol!  lol!  lol! 

SD
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Re: Four engines and two mufflers

Post  RknRusty on Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:41 am

You're so right, Dave. I'll stick with the 25 car garage dream, and pare the cars down to 24 and convert one bay for planes, Including my Gamecock Oriental... what a beauty.

More immediately, I just ran in from the shop to see what props I should get to try on my fp40. I don't have any 11" props. Since this is a straight 2 stroker I'm thinking I should get some 11x4s and 5s. Right now, I do have a 10x6 and some 10x4s I can try if I don't get to the HS before I go fly. I have a couple of old nylon TF 10x3s that I boiled back in the Shoestring days. I make that sound like a long time ago.lol!

Rusty

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Re: Four engines and two mufflers

Post  RknRusty on Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:24 pm

That fp 40 on the Clownlikething is badass! It loosened up easily and I took out the needle and flushed it thoroughly. The tank was gross. After flushing about 12 ounces of alcohol through it the green cleared up and I put new lines and a filter on it. It holds 5 ounces of fuel, so I filled her up, kicked the tires and lit the fire.

It started lean and fast, about 12.5k and I backed way off on the needle. Nothing was happening so I thought maybe it was obstructed, but at 7 turns it started tracking the needle. I set it to a wet 2 and let it run. Tipping it up and down didn't change much. As Ken stated, it isn't a 4-stroker. I was going to tach it again but the damn thing blew my tach about 8 feet away. What a wind machine. Forgive me, I still get amazed at these big(er) engines, I'm still used to mosquito power. I didn't think it was ever going to shut off, my shoulder was complaining and I smoked up the whole neighborhood. I love smoke.

So, I have another one to fly. Wayne and I will go out Tuesday or Thursday and burn some circles. I plan to add a new stunt or two to my routine and work up to the full pattern over the Winter. I would like to ask, does 7-1/2 turns sound like a lot on this needle with 10/22 fuel? Maybe I need to take the spraybar out and clean it better.

BTW, I think I'm kicking off my cold now. It's been a real rib buster, but I think I'll live.
Later, Dudes.

Crusty

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Re: Four engines and two mufflers

Post  duke.johnson on Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:31 pm

Rusty
I love my 40FP's and Tower Hobbies 40's. They like to run 11x4 apc's at about 9800rpm's for PA stunt patterns. You should build yourself an Oriental for it, it looks like a 40 size Pinto. The Oriental will take you way into your PA stunt classes.
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