Yet another Killer Bee clone by Estes?

smooth_bill Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:18 pm

This forum is a virtual gold mine of information on fake Killer Bee engines that were thrown together by Estes, and sold as original. Isn't that fraud by the way?

Mine has the usual mix of parts, with what appears to be a real KB backplate (measured correct intake diameter), and a cylinder with unequal size exhaust slits, plus a 1702 high compression glow head.

The crank however is classic Babe Bee, as is the needle valve. The crank does have the proper no drag drive washer, and starter spring.

It's still NIB so the compression is excellent, but without further disassembly I can't tell if the bore is tapered, or the piston lightened.

What I do notice is that the piston has SPI, but it seems strange to me to have such a large bottom exhaust slit, with only a few thousandths opened for SPI at TDC.

Does anyone here have an original Cox Killer Bee to verify that as correct?

Thanks to Bernie I have the proper crankshafts, and yellow needle valves.

What I don't know is if Cox stopped tapering the KB cylinders toward the end of production?

Thanks for any info guys.

Bill

Jason_WI Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:43 pm

Is there a date stamped in the box somewhere? I think any engine with a date before Jan 20, 1996 should be genuine Cox KB.

smooth_bill Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:50 pm

Hi Jason,

Sorry, I forgot to mention that. There is no date inside the box.

Thanks for your reply.

Bill

Jason_WI Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:59 pm

Most likely an Estes Frankenstein engine unfortunately.

1/2A Nut Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:14 am

With the proper crank you are now nearly there a key component to killer rpm is the piston study the photo it is a great way to get a even mill around the inside of the piston wall if every thing is locked down just spin the drill up slowly till done.

Note I took a high performance crank from the TD RC .050 same flywheel and drilled out pin but of course front induction.
A real Killer Bee cylinder and piston new in the box called it a Killer TD here are the results after a short break in.

The Killer TD .049 - Cox RC carb
Breaking in the engine in the air 1st flight 1oz tank
Galbreath Head / Nelson plug
#1 cylinder 2 bypass ports 1 boost flute per port
2nd flight APC 4.5 x 4
22,044 rpm in the hand static - 25% nitro
Best pass at 24,160 rpm / needle is still set bit rich. 67 F. winds 6 to 9 mph

Yet another Killer Bee clone by Estes? How_to10

smooth_bill Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:16 pm

1/2A Nut wrote:With the proper crank you are now nearly there a key component to killer rpm is the piston study the photo it is a great way to get a even mill around the inside of the piston wall if every thing is locked down just spin the drill up slowly till done.

Impressive performance!

I pulled the back cover again, and find that the piston is not lightened. Since the cylinder in this engine is probably not tapered, there would be little point in reworking (lightening) the piston for higher rpm.

I'm still looking for an original Killer Bee .049 NIB, but with all the clone parts available I don't trust the ones I see on eBay.

Bill

Jason_WI Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:58 pm

Ask the seller if there is a date on the cardboard insert. No date or after January 1996 then move on. That's what I did to find my genuine one. Takes patience.

Cox International Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:07 pm

There are three distinct versions, at least.

Post-Estes is the one with a "regular" cylinder / piston, a "regular" crankshaft and a "regular" needle valve

Pre-Estes #2 has the correct cylinder, needle valve and KB crank but the piston is not lightened.

Pre-Estes # 1 has all the correct parts, a.k.a. the "real" one.

After buying several dozen of those engines over the years we finally lucked out and got two "real" ones from the same seller. One went into our house collection and the other one we listed for $295; which took all of 30 minutes to sell.

smooth_bill Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:52 pm

Cox International wrote:There are three distinct versions, at least.

Bernie,

Thank you, that pretty well sums it up.

However, I'm still curious about cylinder taper. It looks like I'll have to pull my cylinder to see what I have.

Bill

Cox International Sat Jul 11, 2015 7:21 pm

Not sure if the cylinder is tapered and would have to look at the Cox drawings.

1/2A Nut Sat Jul 11, 2015 7:25 pm

My May, 1996 .049 KB has a tapper fit.

Cox International Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:13 pm

And pricing is soaring for some Cox engines. After the $700 Tee Dee 010 (twice), a TD 050 RC for $500, we now have a Killer Bee 051 already bid to over $300 with 8hrs to go and a .15 Mark II at over $500 with two days to go.

I guess we really lucked out when we got our Killer Bee 049 for $150 lol!

1/2A Nut Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:52 pm

http://www.ebay.com/itm/371374491723?_trksid=p2060778.m1431.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Ebay handle - Rureelybob

KB .051 $305 now 7hrs and 43 mins to go.
Item location:
Roscoe, Illinois, United States

Ships to:
Worldwide

Is that your US seller?

Cox International Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:29 pm

Yep, Bob Watts... that's him Smile

1/2A Nut Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:56 pm

I have bought quite a few engines from Bob in the past he always has some top notch clean engines. Can highly recommend!!
Last one was just a while back a (New In Box Magnum XLS .15A R/C) $42.00 woot!

getback Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:25 am

Yes my self also , he has some nice stuff ever thing he sells is cleaned and oiled , very nice !! Small Cox Logo

stuntguy13 Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:46 pm

I see the mod to reduce the piston weight. Question, what is the wall thickness of the Killer Bee piston?

Best, DennisT

getback Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:52 am

Here is some old info and thread that may be of help to you https://www.coxengineforum.com/t4279-lightening-a-piston-using-common-tools?highlight=killer+bee+piston I Love This Forum!

davidll1984 Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:58 am

For the exact measurement I can check but I will have to dismantle one engine To lighten the piston I prefer to use a diamond point thinner than that shown in the photo To reach the bottom of the piston as far as possible

Yet another Killer Bee clone by Estes? 16239410

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Yet another Killer Bee clone by Estes?

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Killer Bee piston wall thickness?

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