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"Weird Veco Engine" Mystery Solved Empty "Weird Veco Engine" Mystery Solved

Post  Kim on Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:35 pm

Got a phone call from my Uncle Wayne last night, and it seems that he's received yet ANOTHER box of odd/old engines (they seem to migrate to him!).

Included in this batch is a Veco Engine, apparently with a threaded Glow Plug hole MUCH larger than a standard plug. I didn't get a lot of details, but he said that a regular glowplug will fall right through into the cylinder.

I'm headed over for a visit this weekend, and will get photos, but in the meantime...any ideas? I have no experience with Ignition Engines....could this be the remnants of that type? He said there's no evidence of a coil/breaker assembly on the forward case. I also considered a possible past diesel conversion.

Anyway, another interesting page in all this model engine mania !

Later!



Last edited by Kim on Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post  nitroairplane on Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:57 pm

Well it may need a turbo plug,
Or a larger spark plug.

Maybe someone just made it bigger to take a cox glow head.
I know Andy W messed up a head on i think the fora .020 and had to re tap it to take a tee dee .010 head as a plug.
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Post  Kim on Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:07 pm

Could be...I'll get some good photos, and we'll investigate !

Love this goofy stuff !
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Post  nitroairplane on Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:18 pm

Kim wrote:Could be...I'll get some good photos, and we'll investigate !

Love this goofy stuff !



Can't wait also don't forget to find out what thread it is.
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Post  Kim on Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:20 pm

Will try...I GOT to get by the machine shop and get myself a set of thread gages...
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Post  nitroairplane on Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:26 pm

Ok.
Do you know if it is a sparker?
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Post  Kim on Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:34 pm

nitroairplane wrote:Ok.
Do you know if it is a sparker?

Not at this point. That was my first thought, but Wayne said there was nothing different about the front or rear of the case (where I figure that there might be lugs for the coil/breaker assy).
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Post  nitroairplane on Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:48 pm

Maybe someone tried to make and insert button diesel head for it.
I have seen that done before.
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Post  Kim on Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:18 pm

Could be. We're supposed to have good weather Sunday...so might get some flying done along with this engine mystery stuff...
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Post  SuperDave on Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:15 pm

Kim:

Any idea as the the Veco's displacement? I know ignition models exist and might have some clues for you. The large plug hole probaly indicates that is was, at least at one time", a "sparker". If so, it was produced pre-WWII.

Veco was and still is produced by K&B.
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Post  fit90 on Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:39 pm

Weren't some of the very first production glow engines adaptations of gas ignition engines? If so, I would think that some of the earliest production glow plugs would have been closer to spark plug size rather that the size we now think of when we think of glow plugs. Sounds like a fun bit of research.
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Post  SuperDave on Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:49 pm

Never have seen an example of what we'd call an "oversized" glow plug.

I do have in my stuff a very eary normal sized glo made by Champion with a porcelain insulater showing red Champion script. It works but I keep it as a conversion piece. (NFS)
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Post  Ivanhoe on Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:29 pm

Interesting, I didn't think the Veco name went back as far as spark ignition, but I am probably wrong on that. I'd be interested in seeing photos though.

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Post  nitroairplane on Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:23 pm

Ivanhoe wrote:Interesting, I didn't think the Veco name went back as far as spark ignition, but I am probably wrong on that. I'd be interested in seeing photos though.

Wilf

Veco are very old indeed.
Has superDave really never heard of a turbo plug?
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Post  SuperDave on Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:52 pm

No, I haven't enlightened one. Shed light upon the darkness. Shocked
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Post  PV Pilot on Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:05 pm

Just picked up a Veco single center bolt Muffler recently,,for there 19 sized engines. drilled it for pressure and mounted it on my McCoy Blue head 19 RC engine. Fit the 1952 KB Greenhead 19 RC I just rebuilt as well. both center bolt exhaust types.


My buddy has a old webra 35 big bore that was converted to glow from gas, with a sparkplug to glow plug adapter. never seen them go that way before. Goofy looking glow fuel carburator on it.
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Post  nitroairplane on Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:02 pm

SuperDave wrote:No, I haven't enlightened one. Shed light upon the darkness. Shocked

Courtesy of Steve Pond.
"The technology of glow plugs escapes most of us. Sure, we all know that our nitro engines need them to start and to run, but beyond that, we don't know much. Glow plugs are, in fact, a critical part of the whole performance picture. To help shed some light on the technology of glow plugs and for some practical information concerning their use, I consuited a few of the most knowledgeable people in the industry.

The roster of experts who lent their knowledge to this piece includes Howard McCoy of McCoy Racing, Jerry Conley of Wildcat Fuels and Alberto Picco of Picco Mfg. They all have extensive knowledge of glow plugs.

WHAT IS A GLOW PLUG?
A glow plug is the ignition system for your nitro-powered RC vehicle. Instead of a spark-ignition system such as those found in automobile engines, the remarkably simple glow plug is what we use to ignite the fuel in our engines. It doesn't have a single moving part or adjustment; its only functioning component is a simple, stationary coil of wire.

HOW DOES IT WORK?

Starting an engine is one of the functions of a glow plug. When a glow igniter is attached to a glow plug, it causes the glow plug's coil to "glow" white-hot. This ignites the air/fuel mixture in the cylinder when the engine is started. Once the engine is running, the heat generated during compression and combustion keeps the glow plug's element hot enough to continue igniting the fuel mixture on its own without the help of an external power source. In the simplest terms possible, that's how a glow plug works.

WHAT IS A TURBO PLUG?
Glow plugs are available in two configurations: standard and turbo. Most engines come with a standard plug. They feature a straight, threaded housing that threads through the cylinder head into the combustion chamber. Turbo plugs feature a different type of housing; the end that goes into the combustion chamber is tapered. The tapered end mates with a head that is specially designed for use with turbo plugs. The head is also tapered to accept this type of plug. The supposed advantages are less compression leakage around the glow plug and less disruption of the combustion chamber. The hole in the cylinder head that exposes the glow plug to the air/fuel mixture in the cylinder is much smaller, and there are fewer rough edges to create unwanted hot spots.

WHICH TYPE OF GLOW PLUG SHOULD I USE?
OK; you've blown the glow plug that was included with your engine, so it's time to get a new one. Which one do you buy? You could try to find the same plug, if information about its brand and type was included with your engine. More likely, you will have to choose from the brands and types of plugs that are available at your local hobby shop.

What makes the subject of choosing a glow plug a little confusing is the variety of types that are available. Each manufacturer offers a range of plugs, from as few as three or four up to 10 or more. A plug is usually identified by a code that indicates its effective operating temperature; not the operating temperature of the engine or the outside air, but the relative temperature of the glow plug's coil. Each manufacturer has its own unique temperature-rating system, and general application recommendations are sometimes included to try to steer consumers toward the correct plugs for their needs. The process can be confusing, however, because a universal rating system does not exist for glow plugs. For example, an O.S. R5 plug is not the same as a McCoy MC-9, although both are considered "cold" plugs. A glow-plug manufacturer's guidelines will suffice for average enthusiasts who simply want their boats to run; racers and performance buffs, however, won't get the most out of their engines without a little experimentation. So what should you look for in a replacement plug?

Some general rules about plugs are determined by the size of the engine and the type of fuel used. Smaller engines usually require hotter plugs, while larger engines favor cooler plugs. Engines that run fuel containing a high percentage of nitro favor the cooler plugs as well, while those that run on less nitro prefer hotter plugs (nitro fuels for car engines typically include 10 to 40 percent nitromethane). For example, a small, .12ci (2.1cc) engine that burns highnitro fuel would favor a warm plug in a mid-range temperature (small engine = hotter plug; high-nitro fuel = colder plug). The same plug might also be suitable for a .21ci (3.5cc) engine running low-nitro fuel (large engine = colder plug; lownitro fuel = hotter plug).

The size of your engine and the type of fuel are easy enough to determine, so these guidelines should get you pointed in the right direction. For racing buffs who want to get maximum ponies, however, another element that's not easily determined-yet should be taken into consideration-is compression ratio. The compression ratio of an engine will also be a factor in choosing the proper plug. High-compression engines favor colder plugs, while those with lower compression favor hotter plugs. Engine manufacturers rarely disclose an engine's compression ratio, so it may be difficult to use this information to select plugs unless you know how to calculate compression or can measure it with a compression gauge. "
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Post  Kim on Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:20 am

It appears that my Uncle Wayne's "Mystery VECO Engine" is just an aged victim of abuse! My Dannel Book says it's a 1962 or so .45 BB R/C model. It's thrust washer is gone, and the carb is pretty beat up. The glow plug hole's threads look to be about 24-inch, but I forgot to check the diameter.

Figure someone just got a bit froggy at some point!

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Post  Mark Boesen on Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:29 am

I'd guess the head got stripped out and someone installed a 'heli-coil' at some point and thats now gone.

It wouldn't take much to cleaner up and get'er running!
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Post  Kim on Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:37 am

Yeah, I told him we could probably get it going. He's got a lot of other things going on at the moment, and I'm sure not gonna volunteer to work on it right now!
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Post  Ivanhoe on Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:47 am

Kim wrote:It appears that my Uncle Wayne's "Mystery VECO Engine" is just an aged victim of abuse! My Dannel Book says it's a 1962 or so .45 BB R/C model. It's thrust washer is gone, and the carb is pretty beat up. The glow plug hole's threads look to be about 24-inch, but I forgot to check the diameter.

Figure someone just got a bit froggy at some point!


What a disappointment! Everyone thought we were going to have a great mystery to solve!
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Post  Kim on Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:51 pm

Yeah, sorry...I was wrapped up in it too! Not my first Wild Goose Chase...I just got to take the Forum along with me on this one !
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Post  nitroairplane on Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:12 pm

That's sad I was gonna go Sherlock Holmes on its ass.
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