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Another plane for The World’s Smallest Travelling Engine

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Another plane for The World’s Smallest Travelling Engine

Post  batjac on Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:16 pm

Well, it’s still too wet and humid to paint, so I decided go ahead and start on the RC plane I wanted to build for TWSTE.  As I mentioned in an earlier thread, I want to build an RC plane, since I have no guarantee that I’d have a helper to hand launch the Nibbler when it’s my turn for TWSTE.   I decided to do a modified Pageboy airplane.  I have the wing and flight gear for a Cox Flyboy that I got from Kim, and had thought to use them for this as a single channel plane as the pageboy was originally designed.




I powered up the radio and flight brick to check them, and they worked fine.  But the brick is pretty heavy.  I think I’ll build a .020 single channel plane next and use the Flyboy setup for that.  A modern micro receiver with two channels and 3.6 gram servos will be much lighter for the .010 engine.

I printed out a Pageboy side view at 110% scale and taped it to some Bud Nosen AAA grade 1/16” sheet, then cut out two sides and taped them together.  




I didn’t have any 1/8” square sticks, so I ripped some sticks from 1/8” sheet.  This Master Airscrew balsa stripper is a great little gadget for building when you need a stick of a size you don’t have on hand.




I then marked the sides for the vertical pieces and glued some over-length sticks for the pieces to one side.  Then, I flipped the sides and glued matching sticks to the other side to ensure they matched.  After this was done, the pieces were trimmed and sanded flush with the top and bottom of the sides.






Next I made up a rough blank for the fuselage bottom and put in the cross pieces.





Everything taped together to check for fit.




Gluing the right side to the bottom using a right angle to ensure squareness.




Both sides glued together with formers to ensure the fuselage stays square, and with the firewall installed.





Top and bottom sheeting installed.





Windshield and cowl deck glued on.




Test fitting the Flyboy wing.




More to come…

The Cliffhanger Mark
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Re: Another plane for The World’s Smallest Travelling Engine

Post  RknRusty on Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:55 pm

Man, you make that look easy. Smile

I copied your balsa stripper pic so I can remember to make one. That greatly lessens the danger of removing one's overhanging fingertips while pressing on a straight-edge Lol.

What is AAA balsa, just a high quality, nothing to do with lb/feet, right?
Rusty

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Re: Another plane for The World’s Smallest Travelling Engine

Post  batjac on Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:11 pm

RknRusty wrote:Man, you make that look easy. Smile

I copied your balsa stripper pic so I can remember to make one. That greatly lessens the danger of removing one's overhanging fingertips while pressing on a straight-edge Lol.

What is AAA balsa, just a high quality, nothing to do with lb/feet, right?
Rusty

That just means it's Bud Nosen's lightest and highest quality (read: expensive) contest balsa sheet.

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Re: Another plane for The World’s Smallest Travelling Engine

Post  OVERLORD on Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:49 am

That will be a beautiful plane!! Your series of pictures make it look easy indeed and very fast.

Hey Mark,  you got 1000 posts!!
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Re: Another plane for The World’s Smallest Travelling Engine

Post  RknRusty on Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:52 am

OVERLORD wrote:...Hey Mark,  you got 1000 posts!!
You go, Brappy!

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Re: Another plane for The World’s Smallest Travelling Engine

Post  TDbandit on Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:27 am

Nice! Just remember to keep it light. Hmm would love to get my hands on a set of pageboy plans. I've got all kinds of servos and stuff. Would be nice to have an RC model for the .010! (Bandit)

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Re: Another plane for The World’s Smallest Travelling Engine

Post  OVERLORD on Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:35 pm

Bandit, the plans are on Outerzone:

http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=358

or type ".010" in the search box. You will find plenty of other plans.
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Re: Another plane for The World’s Smallest Travelling Engine

Post  batjac on Sun Nov 08, 2015 1:46 am

Did a little more work on the TWSTE plane.  I gotta come up with a good name for this thing.  Hmmm…  Original design was a Pageboy.  The wing comes from a Flyboy.  So…..    I’ll call it a Twisty!  Get it?  Twisty - TWSTE

I really am coming to like the landing gear for this.  I’ll have to try it on a couple of other small planes.  Although I’m going to need to get thinner rubber bands.






I glued in the landing gear mount dowels and the wing mount dowels.  Then I made up the empennage and installed it.




Quick assembly to see what it’s going to look like.





Weight as shown is 54 grams/1.9 ounces.  Neither the Pageboy article nor plans list a final weight, so I hope I’m staying in a good range.  To save weight, I’ll probably just give it a light clear coat to fuel proof it.  But, maybe….  I have some tissue, so maybe I can do a tissue trim finish like I’ve seen on some old models.  I’ll grab some scrap and try it.  I’ve got plenty of time as it’s not painting weather.

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what is the wing made from

Post  happydad on Sun Nov 08, 2015 1:55 am

batjac wrote:Did a little more work on the TWSTE plane.  I gotta come up with a good name for this thing.  Hmmm…  Original design was a Pageboy.  The wing comes from a Flyboy.  So…..    I’ll call it a Twisty!  Get it?  Twisty - TWSTE

I really am coming to like the landing gear for this.  I’ll have to try it on a couple of other small planes.  Although I’m going to need to get thinner rubber bands.


[/url]


Weight as shown is 54 grams/1.9 ounces.  Neither the Pageboy article nor plans list a final weight, so I hope I’m staying in a good range.  To save weight, I’ll probably just give it a light clear coat to fuel proof it.  But, maybe….  I have some tissue, so maybe I can do a tissue trim finish like I’ve seen on some old models.  I’ll grab some scrap and try it.  I’ve got plenty of time as it’s not painting weather.

The Indecisive Mark

Mark: What is the wing made from? And where did you get it? did I read something about Kim in there somewhere?

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Re: Another plane for The World’s Smallest Travelling Engine

Post  batjac on Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:45 pm

Happydad, I got the wing, drive train, and radio equipment from Kim a while back.  I wanted them to experiment with single channel flying.  The wing and equipment came from a Cox Flyboy.




The wing is plastic covered foam.  I’m hoping it will be pretty good for this project.  We’ll see.

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Re: Another plane for The World’s Smallest Travelling Engine

Post  batjac on Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:53 pm

Had some time to get back Twisty.  I put in a couple of side rails for the servos to sit on.  



Then I drilled the holes for the engine to mount to the fire wall.  I put a couple of 1/16” drill bits in the holes as alignment pins to hold the engine in place for balance.




I installed the control horns and made up the pushrods for the elevator and rudder.  




Then the servos were installed on the rails so I could slide them back and forth to find the balance point.




The wing and landing gear attached to the plane for a rough weigh-in and balance check.  It’s a little heavier than I was hoping for, but with the long thin wing it should be okay.  The unpainted weight is 120gm, or 4.2oz, and it’s a little tail heavy.  I’ll have to balance it once I get the fuel proofing on.





Good thing I went with the most modern radio equipment.  To see how much weight I saved, I weighed both the two channel gear with 5gm servos and the single channel Cox brick.  The modern flight pack is 33 grams, or 1.2 ounces vs. the Cox flight brick at 68 grams, or 2.4 ounces.  On a plane this size, a whole ounce saved is a big deal.





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Re: Another plane for The World’s Smallest Travelling Engine

Post  getback on Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:06 am

Looking good Mark and I didn't think you were a R/C man , but appears you know what your doing . Should make a nice easy flyer . Eric Very Happy
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Re: Another plane for The World’s Smallest Travelling Engine

Post  pkrankow on Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:24 am

I started on a pageboy for possible inside flying (electric) 3 channel.

Your wing is a lot longer looking that the pageboy plans call for. What is the wingspan?

Phil
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Re: Another plane for The World’s Smallest Travelling Engine

Post  batjac on Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:57 pm

pkrankow wrote:I started on a pageboy for possible inside flying (electric) 3 channel.

Your wing is a lot longer looking that the pageboy plans call for.  What is the wingspan?

Phil

Wingspan is a whopping 27 inches.  I know Ken Willard knew what he was doing when he designed the Pageboy at 12 inches for wingspan, but I didn't want a high wing loading for the plane.  My first choice for airplane was the Schoolboy, but that 36 inch wingspan just seemed way to big.  I already have the plans printed out, so I'll probably build it someday with a TD .020 engine and the single channel brick.  

I did a search on Outerzone to try to get a feel for the weight I need to be with the 27 inch wing.  Of the 17 plans that came up with .010 in the description, none of the plans gave an actual target weight, and only three gave a flying weight "as built".  I guess back then it was, "use whatever radio equipment you have, build as light as you can, and go for it."  Two planes gave weights of 8 ounces and 6 ounces, but the were .010 or .020 designs.  The only weight given for a .010 only design was 5.5 ounces, and that was a 20" wing.  So, if I have to add a quarter to a half ounce of nose weight after finishing, I'm hoping to come it at right around 5 ounces.  Stretching the wing from 12 to 27 inches should easily be able to handle 5 ounces on the TD .010 engine.  But, as always, we'll see.

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Re: Another plane for The World’s Smallest Travelling Engine

Post  pkrankow on Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:26 pm

That settles it then, I am going to build a second wing with at least 8 inches more span. I am using a electric motor that is equivalent to a .049, and the smallest prop that fits that I have is a 5x3, so I already need to extend the landing gear by an inch.

The problem I am having is the material to reinforce the wing joint. "Celastic" is still available to costume makers and taxidermists, but at $30/yard it is too expensive. Think 6oz fiberglass bias cut will be too heavy? Maybe set it in Testor's cement? Epoxy would be too heavy I fear.
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Re: Another plane for The World’s Smallest Travelling Engine

Post  batjac on Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:09 pm

pkrankow wrote:That settles it then, I am going to build a second wing with at least 8 inches more span.  I am using a electric motor that is equivalent to a .049, and the smallest prop that fits that I have is a 5x3, so I already need to extend the landing gear by an inch.

The problem I am having is the material to reinforce the wing joint.  "Celastic" is still available to costume makers and taxidermists, but at $30/yard it is too expensive.  Think 6oz fiberglass bias cut will be too heavy?  Maybe set it in Testor's cement?  Epoxy would be too heavy I fear.

6 ounce?  Do you mean 0.6 ounce?  6 ounce is over twice as heavy as the Dacron fabric I use on my homebuilt airplane.  I'd look for alternatives.  Back when I was young and broke, my poor man's fiberglass tape was an old polyester shirt I got for a buck at Goodwill and used for cutting strips off of.  It was a well worn shirt with loose weave, and I'd use thick CA glue on the joint.  I applied the CA and then rubbed the fabric tape down to get the glue to saturate the fabric.  I don't think epoxy would be too heavy if you thinned it.  Testor's would certainly be okay.  Use whatever you have to hand and it should be fine.

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Re: Another plane for The World’s Smallest Travelling Engine

Post  pkrankow on Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:29 pm

I got half a box of 6 oz fabric from building a canoe years ago, and I know where it is.

I thought I ordered some SIG fiberglass, but I don't know where I put it.

The piece of glass I need is all of about 2 inch x 4 inch, so it is not huge. I have Minwax polycryllic, Testors, and some regular polyurethane varnish. I am short on slow epoxy at the moment.

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Re: Another plane for The World’s Smallest Travelling Engine

Post  getback on Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:02 am

Jim if that fiberglass for canoes is what I have for car repair that I got from a friend I wouldn't use that because I tried it and it takes a lot of glue to saturate it because its so poorest ?/ just my Two Cents getback (if you stop looking it will show)
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Re: Another plane for The World’s Smallest Travelling Engine

Post  pkrankow on Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:28 pm

The 6 oz glass is laying down very nice, I am just doing where the rubber bands will go. It is not too thick, it seems thinner than the veneer I am using on the bottom.

Phil
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DRAT!!!!!

Post  batjac on Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:07 pm

Drat!!!  I was just about finished with this one, too!  Since there is no end in sight for the rain we're getting, and I can't use paint or dope in the house, I decided to try out that EZE Dope that's water based and odor free.  I did two thinned 50/50 coats on the bare fuselage, sanding after each coat, and then last night I put on a last 70/30 coat.  I was going to call it good and then maybe put on some tissue trim.  BUT....  

Over on RCGroups in the Vintage section they do these Build Offs.  Usually it'll be to build a plane by a specific designer, or from plans from a given magazine, or maybe plans from a specific year.  The most recent Build Off is the YOBBO, the Year Of Birth Build Off.  Anyone who wants to participate chooses a plane that was published or kitted in the year of their birth.  I was going to build another design, but just realized that the Pageboy was published in 1963, the year I was born!  So, I can use this plane for TWSTE and also for the YOBBO.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2508562


The only problem?  I changed the profile and size of the fin/rudder to give more control of the plane.  Now, I have to take the fin/rudder off, sand down the rear of the fuselage, and glue on a new fin/rudder assembly.  I'll need to make up a new pushrod, too.

Oh, and I'll have to make a built up wing instead of using the Flyboy wing for the YOBBO.  I'll still use the Flyboy wing for TWSTE because it should fly better with the extra wing area.

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help is on the way

Post  happydad on Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:58 am

pkrankow wrote:I got half a box of 6 oz fabric from building a canoe years ago, and I know where it is.

I thought I ordered some SIG fiberglass, but I don't know where I put it.

The piece of glass I need is all of about 2 inch x 4 inch, so it is not huge.  I have Minwax polycryllic, Testors, and some regular polyurethane varnish.  I am short on slow epoxy at the moment.  


send me your address in a PM and I will send you a piece of 1/2 ounce, (0.5), glass I use for glassing the bottom of a balsa boat.  If you want I can send a picture of it. 2 x 4 inches wont hurt me. I also used it for glassing small dings in my surfboards in the day.

happydad RC Plane Futaba Radio Jeep where is a RC boat when you need it?
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Re: Another plane for The World’s Smallest Travelling Engine

Post  pkrankow on Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:30 am

happydad wrote:
pkrankow wrote:I got half a box of 6 oz fabric from building a canoe years ago, and I know where it is.

I thought I ordered some SIG fiberglass, but I don't know where I put it.

The piece of glass I need is all of about 2 inch x 4 inch, so it is not huge.  I have Minwax polycryllic, Testors, and some regular polyurethane varnish.  I am short on slow epoxy at the moment.  


send me your address in a PM and I will send you a piece of 1/2 ounce, (0.5), glass I use for glassing the bottom of a balsa boat.  If you want I can send a picture of it. 2 x 4 inches wont hurt me. I also used it for glassing small dings in my surfboards in the day.

happydad RC Plane Futaba Radio Jeep where is a RC boat when you need it?

Jobs done with the 6oz already. I can't get pictures loaded as I keep getting virus errors... I need to remember my other image service login. I appreciate the offer though.
Phil
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