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Pageboy in ELECTRIC!

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Pageboy in ELECTRIC!

Post  pkrankow on Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:55 pm

I am building a Page Boy for electric.  Some slight changes to it to accommodate, specifically elevator, and longer legs on the landing gear because of the larger prop I am ending up using... and I omitted the trim piece under the stab.

I just shot the second and final coat of polyurethane on the air frame, and it is drying in the garage with a drop light for heat.

It is close enough to the stock dimensions that the Traveling .010 MIGHT (but probably won't) fly on it.

What is a good bare painted air frame weight, and/or all up flying weight?

Pictures eventually.  I promise.

Phil
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Re: Pageboy in ELECTRIC!

Post  balogh on Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:21 pm

I had a Page Boy with 2 channels powered by a 010 and it was a nice bird flying quite fast
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Re: Pageboy in ELECTRIC!

Post  pkrankow on Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:54 pm



Sharpie markers with Min wax spray polyurethane

Phil
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Re: Pageboy in ELECTRIC!

Post  pkrankow on Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:57 pm

Yes, that is the 6oz fiberglass set in Testors wood and metal cement on the wing there. Not too heavy.

Phil
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Re: Pageboy in ELECTRIC!

Post  pkrankow on Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:39 pm



My solution to making servos and battery fit. Radio and esc go in the nose, or maybe radio in the tail...

Phil
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Re: Pageboy in ELECTRIC!

Post  pkrankow on Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:01 pm

148g, well, control surfaces and pushrods needed, and a few screws.  





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Re: Pageboy in ELECTRIC!

Post  duke.johnson on Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:31 pm

i love it
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Battery included??

Post  happydad on Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:33 pm

pkrankow wrote:148g, well, control surfaces and pushrods needed, and a few screws.  




Does the 148 g. include the battery and RX? Either way it should go vertical easily with a 2s battery.

happydad RC Plane Blow up Mad! Blow up Mad! Blow up Mad! Blow up Mad! Blow up Mad!
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Re: Pageboy in ELECTRIC!

Post  pkrankow on Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:07 pm

happydad wrote:
pkrankow wrote:148g, well, control surfaces and pushrods needed, and a few screws.  




Does the 148 g. include the battery and RX? Either way it should go vertical easily with a 2s battery.

happydad RC Plane Blow up Mad! Blow up Mad! Blow up Mad! Blow up Mad! Blow up Mad!

Yes.

I am only expecting about 10 more grams of weight added. Tops.

There might even be weigh loss due to the polyurethane gassing off.

Phil
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Re: Pageboy in ELECTRIC!

Post  pkrankow on Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:00 pm

So after my lackluster indoor flying session a month ago I ordered an AR6400, which of course shipped on a slow boat from China...Literally. It could be an unliscened clone but if it works I really don't care.

The consensus of the people who have flown pageboy is I had TOO much motor, too much payload, too big of battery, and my extended landing gear didn't help any. The end result was nose heavy and unable to turn. At least I had elevator response...

So first I added 3/8 inch to the control surfaces. This makes the minimally suitable elevator from nearly 1/2 inch to just over 3/4 inch. The rudder, which needs the help more, went from about 1/4 inch at the top and about 1/2 inch at the bottom, over 1 3/4 inches to 9/16 at the top and 13/16 at the bottom. I did sand the finish off the old elevator before bonding the extension on. This may account for the odd dimensions a little. I put a coat of poly over the joint and new wood.

Next up removing the drive line, controls, servos, and blocking without doing damage to the main structure. Following this is installing the AR6400 RX with servos and a geared DC drive line.

Pictures to follow at some point too.

Phil
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Re: Pageboy in ELECTRIC!

Post  1/2A Nut on Tue Mar 15, 2016 4:23 pm

What prop spinner combo is that have a link to the store?
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Re: Pageboy in ELECTRIC!

Post  pkrankow on Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:09 pm

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCKYD

This is what I ordered. I am unsure how to hook up the motor to the on-board ESC at this moment as I don't recognize the connector. The AR6400 is supposed to handle DC or brushless with a simple setting change... which is in the manual but I don't remember how off the top of my head.

Speaking of connectors I don't recognize the connector to the battery either...

Phil
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Re: Pageboy in ELECTRIC!

Post  pkrankow on Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:41 pm

I think what I need is here...

http://www.micronwings.com/Products/SectionConnectors/index.shtml

Part of my brain broke rooting around here.  There is a video of making a 20mm prop...

Phil

but they are in Australia and shipping is ... something else entirely.
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Re: Pageboy in ELECTRIC!

Post  pkrankow on Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:13 pm

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Re: Pageboy in ELECTRIC!

Post  Kim on Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:03 am

Bump !
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Re: Pageboy in ELECTRIC!

Post  pkrankow on Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:10 am

I posted in another pageboy thread the AR6400 was superseded by the AS6410 this might save some aggravation trying to find a RX and servo module.

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t9620-ken-willard-page-boy

I wish I had used 1.5 oz SIG fiberglass tape instead of 6oz glass. Setting in Testors cement is easy and very lightweight compared to epoxy.

I still haven't finished putting this back together with the new kit and enlarged control surfaces.

Phil
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Re: Pageboy in ELECTRIC!

Post  balogh on Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:17 am

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Re: Pageboy in ELECTRIC!

Post  pkrankow on Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:17 am





I'm still waiting on connectors which I ordered from Ebay... slow boat from China apparently.

I also have some smaller batteries, but haven't decided what I will use.

Phil
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Re: Pageboy in ELECTRIC!

Post  ian1954 on Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:59 pm

I have flown and crashed quite a few electric models of this size. There is a plethora of confusing information when it comes to choosing a lecky motor as an IC equivalent.

I cannot see from the photos what motor you started off with. I could say it looks the same as mine but they all look alike from a distance.

When I build a Cox 010 conversion - I use a Turnigy 1811 2900 with a 6030 propeller (electric for 6x3), a 500 mah 2S battery and a 10 amp esc (Why 10amp? Because I got a stock of them really cheap!). The 500 mah battery gives me a flight time of between 4 and 8 minutes. I found this by trial and error! Many errors!

A few of my builds have shown difficulties responding to the rudder but this was cured by applying a modicum of side thrust - from the top view - point the motor to the right. This is trial and error but usually a couple of degrees.

The geared motor you have looks like the one I have in my Micro Stik but that has an all up ready to fly weight of 1 oz. The same as the Flyzone Micro Playmate. I am not sure that will pull 140g.

I have only used the AR6400 and AR6400L receivers with a separate ESC. The built in ESC on the AR6410 only handles 2amps. I usually use an AR400 or equivalent but I have been playing around with an AR 63xx that has ASX. When I say playing around - I set the aileron trim the wrong way round and instead of fighting a gust of wind it gave in and went the other way.






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Re: Pageboy in ELECTRIC!

Post  pkrankow on Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:01 pm

Hobbyking 2211 1700kv

I already had them on hand.

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t9620-ken-willard-page-boy#122152
based on what balogh said, his plane weighs 193g sans fuel. Makes me even more confused...

Phil
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Re: Pageboy in ELECTRIC!

Post  ian1954 on Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:31 pm

The 2211 1700kv should ideally be on an 8x4 propeller (min 7x4) to get the most out of it. (no larger!)

For anyone not used to electrickery -

Electric motor manufacturers give a specific propeller size range for their motors but it's more critical that the range must be adhered to. Over-propping can do irreversible damage to electric motors and ESCs, because an incorrect propeller will force the motor to work harder than it was designed to.
If you put an oversize prop on an IC engine, the engine will likely stall. No harm done. Put an oversize prop on an electric motor and the motor won't stall, it'll just keep on trying to turn the prop.
The motor will draw more and more current as it tries to keep up with its Kv rating - the number of revolutions per minute it has been designed to turn, per each volt fed into it. With too big a propeller, the motor will just keep working harder and harder to spin the extra load, until something (likely the ESC) overheats and catches fire.
Too small a propeller on an EP motor won't do any damage, but you won't get the required performance for your plane. The motor will draw less current and the plane will likely be seriously under-powered.
The only accurate way to know whether or not your EP propeller is resulting in the correct current draw through the ESC and motor is to use a Watt meter connected between battery pack and ESC


This is sound advice - as I oversize the ESC, it is usually the motor wiring that burns out. My "it will do mentality" has cost me a few motors! I have changed the propeller without a great deal of thought (well no thought at all!) for the consequences and .... .....
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Re: Pageboy in ELECTRIC!

Post  pkrankow on Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:44 pm

I did build in the indicated down and right thrust.

OK, my onboard ESC can drive 5 amps of 2s lipo power. There are a small selection of sub-5 inch props available.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__1855__1680__Hardware_Accessories-3_34_Propellers_Smaller.html
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__1854__1680__Hardware_Accessories-4_34_to_5_34_Inch_Propellers.html
I tried looking at Tower's site and it is a mess to search for props by size. If I have a size I can find the prop, but finding a prop in the list takes forever.

There are some promising looking motors
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=41166
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__30789__NTM_Prop_Drive_13_12_2600KV_42W_US_Warehouse_.html
and a bunch of back order motors.

Phil



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Re: Pageboy in ELECTRIC!

Post  pkrankow on Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:45 pm

Yea...not going to run an 8 inch prop on a 16 inch wingspan plane. I think you pointed out part of my problem right there.

Phil
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Re: Pageboy in ELECTRIC!

Post  pkrankow on Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:42 am

I ordered the 1811 3800kv motor, I hope the bolt holes line up. I ordered some props that were in stock: 3545 and 3030. I may order some from Tower too.

Phil
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