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Cox .01 /.02 /.05 Engines & Mods / Nano Speed Planes

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Happy Re: Cox .01 /.02 /.05 Engines & Mods / Nano Speed Planes

Post  Littlebuzz_97 on Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:26 pm

I’m hoping the reduced drag is going to outweigh the added weight, I’ve still got my pencil on paper drawing it up, it’s a lot easier than cad plus I can just transfer it over to balsa Rolling Eyes

I’ve just received an email telling me my back plate is on its way Very Happy
Then I can finalise the engine mount and Cowell.

I also a a second hand tee dee .049 turn up in the mail, it’s not in the best shape and I suspect they were surplus parts someone threw together with wd40

I’ve pulled it apart and cleaned it up, I have a who bunch of cox reed .049 parts, I have another piston that is a much nicer fit that I’ll try thinning out the skirt.

Is there any special things you do when building/ rebuilding an engine?
I’d like to lap the crank into the the crankcase as it’s a bit grindy, would I just add a drop of fine polish to the crank and give it a few turns?
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Happy Re: Cox .01 /.02 /.05 Engines & Mods / Nano Speed Planes

Post  1/2A Nut on Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:28 pm

Hi Jordan, the TD .020 backplate has a 22mm dia. and the holes for mounting is 18mm that should allow you to
keep moving forward with the design. You can lap it if you wish I have never, just cleaned up and ran sloppy rich
to run out any last bits / particles.  Post a pic of the engine lets see what you are working with. I use cotton swabs
to clean out the crank case and good layer of oil prior to assembling. As far as spinning up the crank for lapping
any way you wish to spin it up will do I would use my starter on controlled voltage around 2 volts using a spinner
and running the starter clock wise spin up then remove clean off add another round of polish and repeat one more
time should do it. Thinning out the inside wall of the skirt can be done there is a trick to it and must maintain equal
removal all around. Best just enjoy the TD as is since you only have one on hand. Small Cox Logo





Based on the landings with the 28" span a 21" span could handle a low weight .049 and reach the highest possible speeds
for a Cox .049 the 28" span is a bit much drag. 141mph with a 4x5 was very good but the thrust was not there. IV would
make for a good flying TD .020 without any fuss to land it. 19" span would help get it going faster but the option to up it
to the TD .049 would be out. In pondering mode. TD would have to be on a firewall backplate mount to keep the weight
off the nose a standoff beam engine mount is a luxury item that is out of the question. A reed engine is a bit lower weight
and I do have a Killer Bee that has made good power. Would use 3.7g metal gear digital servos.


Built up Killer Bee less the lower weight piston
Best peak 24,740 / 7.1oz thrust / 106 mph / 93.3w
Nelson plug / 25% nitro / HQ Carbon 4x4.5 prop

Real Cox Killer Bee:  
Carbon 4x4.5 / 1.8g prop - Cox Made Date: May 31st 1995
Best peak 25,516 best steady static: 25,193 / 107mph
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Happy Re: Cox .01 /.02 /.05 Engines & Mods / Nano Speed Planes

Post  1/2A Nut on Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:36 am

The Cyclone 3blade prop at 118 mph static is what has me most interested along
with the new backplate the engine has the ability to hit 140 mph down wind.

Another prop the HQ 4x4.5 has promise static 97 mph prop speed for the chance to
at a 1:1 thrust ratio. The prop will need some back cut to keep the rpm up, I have a
batch of non carbon HQ 4x4.5 that I bought without paying attention strong enough
for the TD .020 and easy to trim for speed. If not trimmed the prop in stock form
can hit 85 mph static / 4.7oz thrust.

3.7x4.5

Small Cox Logo
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Happy Re: Cox .01 /.02 /.05 Engines & Mods / Nano Speed Planes

Post  Littlebuzz_97 on Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:14 pm

Very nice! Very Happy

I still can’t believe that the .020 TD can get up to 140,
I can’t wait to get mine built especially since I can only get 22k and 51 mph out of the pee wee.

The nanoIII is the perfect Park flying with the pee wee I think, nice and smooth and not to fast, I reckon I could fly it in a gymnasium with a smaller prop Laughing

I got too confident with it today doing low passes and clipped the top wire on the fence, not too much damage, snapped the fin off and lifted one side of the stab form the fuse, the spruce L.E held up well to the wire, oh and I snapped the servo on half! Shocked

I think I’ll pass it on to one of the club members here that way I’ll get on to building my next version and I’ll have someone to fly .020s with.

I may have to come up with new name because mines not quite the same as the nanos, perhaps a nano-s? Or my other idea, Red-shift like the Doppler effect that happens in space.
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Happy Re: Cox .01 /.02 /.05 Engines & Mods / Nano Speed Planes

Post  1/2A Nut on Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:16 am

Ahh bummer yours took a hit today.
Your Pee Wee is over propped for screaming rpm currently. Instant boost in speed with the HQ carbon 4x4.5
I had hoped to see more vid of the yellow one flying, so for sure look forward to your next creation!
You will in the end regret giving away your first 1/2A NANO, I would recommend you repair and keep it.
I have always regretted giving away planes that had a mile stone moment in my RC hobby more so anything
scratch built with the hours of work involved to make it happen.  cheers  

Just have to roll up the sleeves and get on with the new build for the TD .020. Yes for sure the gym if elect.
your first effort could fly with a TD .010 and stock prop to keep the speed down and the battery up in the nose.
The yellow one looks like a Nano so curious what you will do for your next version, having a road map in general
size, proportions and weight you can expound from there.  




Thus far the TD .020 has made 106 mph passes with 3x3 prop and another managed 105 mph 3.5x3.5
One suffered from poor airfoil design and blade width the other had too much meat at the hub with a thicker
airfoil robbing top end rpm. At that time I set aside the TD .020 and built another few designs during
that time prop tech has improved. I now have 3 new props brands to try 3.8x4 / 3.7x4.5 and the Cyclone.
The TD .010 has gone from 58mph to improvements in plane and props to now 133mph with a 2.56x4 prop
no reason with the right plane / prop combo the TD .020 can't do the same or better.

Last efforts with the TD .049 / 118 mph through new prop tech now hitting 141 mph with the new plane.
Each past effort being improved on providing there are higher pitched props to test. The trick to more speed
is higher pitch in conjunction with a narrow blade with enough dia. to have the thrust at least 65% of the weight.
The TD .09 has hit 144 mph with a 5.25x 6.25P and will require a new plane design to go faster allowing a
smaller dia prop such as a 4.8 x 6.75. Really once you get to 120+ with these Cox powered planes it's truly
a win. The level of attention required to fly at these speeds is not so bad doing peak passes down wind but when
the thrust is near equal to the weight the plane allowing it to continuously flying at a high rate of speed in all directions
makes attention to flying a near 100% conscious effort. The NANO II and Lil Speedy have both flown at those levels and
have been the most demanding on my flying skills thus far. I call it freight train mode non stop high top end speed.
The Nano III has shown better speed performance very stable has it flying like the DART design which is a Cadillac
fast and smooth with enough size / surface area to monitor on the back stretch at the speeds it currently can do.
It will take 160+ to have me back on my toes. The DART at 148 is still 7 mph faster then the NANO III. Catching
these rockets on vid has given me enjoyable reflection and improves my decisions on the next step to take.
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Happy Re: Cox .01 /.02 /.05 Engines & Mods / Nano Speed Planes

Post  getback on Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:07 pm

I am getting into the Prop pitch / cut back the fat to turn up the pitch !! Wonderful ! Your insight and testing is gratefully appreciated Small Cox Logo Thumbs Up Beer Cheers
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Happy Re: Cox .01 /.02 /.05 Engines & Mods / Nano Speed Planes

Post  1/2A Nut on Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:47 pm

Thank you Eric!  Beer Cheers

For me the TD .050 has reached it's max per this vid so the engine has been cleaned and put back
in storage. Top speed lacked thrust with the 4x5 / 141 mph bit better with the 4.22x5.5 thrust
wise just top end dropped to 136 to 139 mph. So the .05 car engine is on the nose with a tuned
pipe waiting for a good flying day to vid / the car engines are perfect for this plane size.

The plane design needs to be reduced to a smaller span to get more speed with a Cox engine 9oz
RTF weight needs to be dropped to 7oz / 3ch. Servo tech is there by putting in some high dollar lower
weight metal gear digital servos over all size plane will drop the rest of the weight I already have the
lowest weight battery and RX. So something to ponder when the time comes I am happy with the
new speed numbers for the TD .050 for now Quite Quick TM.  

The TD .020 plane is next with wiggle room to use a simplified TD .049 using a throttle sleeve to keep
the weight down up swing is the venturi over a RC carb will make a bit more power at speed, I plan to
pressure tap the aluminum carb body to benefit from a pressured tank. Look forward to some good vids
of the TD .020 maxed out with new speeds on radar, anything past that is a plus.

For now ode to the TD .050   Cool
Part 1




Still the best continuous thrust to weight Cox .049 flight:
6.19oz RTF / 4.1x4.1 / Static 24,790 rpm / 7.4oz thrust
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Happy Re: Cox .01 /.02 /.05 Engines & Mods / Nano Speed Planes

Post  1/2A Nut on Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:47 am

FYI ordered a special summer blend 2 quarts worth from this contact out of Houston:
He will charge me more but it is worth it as nitro cools better then methanol the extra
oil is needed at the high rpm's I prop at.

Primary use for the TD .010 and .020
20% Castor /3% Synthetic / 47% Nitro and 30% Methanol

https://www.ebay.com/itm/35-Nitro-GlowPlugBoy-Glow-Fuel-for-Cox-049-051-Engines-2-Qt/222845732206?hash=item33e2a4056e:g:yGEAAOSw~o5aihFk

This is good for general sport flying with the smaller engines can recommend.

Small Cox Logo  RC Plane  Small Cox Logo


Added in the missing link this looks about right for TD .010 thru .09



Last edited by 1/2A Nut on Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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Happy Re: Cox .01 /.02 /.05 Engines & Mods / Nano Speed Planes

Post  Littlebuzz_97 on Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:38 am

Do you think a tee dee .020 would fly on the 16” nano?

It will be interesting to see how the little guys like 48% nitro, I may have to bump mine up a bit to keep up with yours!
Mind you the temperature here is starting to drop off.

You’ll most likely see a few more videos of the pee wee nano, I’ve settled for the gemfan 3x3x5.6 it’s gives the fastest air speed so far, it’s not much different to the eflite 3.75x3 in air speed, static is a different story Smile
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Happy Re: Cox .01 /.02 /.05 Engines & Mods / Nano Speed Planes

Post  1/2A Nut on Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:54 am

E-flite has more thrust? Yes vids vids lol  Cool

If you go with a non throttled version perhaps 8cc tank it's going to come in
hot when the wind is calm but could do 17". I filled in the gap a bit more between
the 16" span and 20" As I would go with a 3ch version and 10cc tank for the 18" span.
The 18.5" with a TD .010 could do with swept wing tips to up the speed a bit will still
be a easy on the landings the 16" span comes in hot down wind into the wind it's ok.

Did a change on the mix design some, was recommended to add synthetic to
help remove varnish build up.  

Summer time blend for the TD .010 and .020
20% Castor /3% Synthetic / 47% Nitro and 30% Methanol





Down to the nitty gritty

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Happy Re: Cox .01 /.02 /.05 Engines & Mods / Nano Speed Planes

Post  1/2A Nut on Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:43 pm

FitzFuels
Fitz Walker
fitz@fitzfuels.com
Email is his paypal handle.
Notes
2 quarts:
- 20% Castor
- 3% Synthetic
- 30% Methanol
- 47% Nitro

New blend is shipped woot!
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Happy Re: Cox .01 /.02 /.05 Engines & Mods / Nano Speed Planes

Post  balogh on Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:16 am

Brad, what is the 3% synthetic for? Why not fully castor?
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Happy Re: Cox .01 /.02 /.05 Engines & Mods / Nano Speed Planes

Post  1/2A Nut on Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:07 am

The synthetic is to help reduce the formation of varnish, the thinner oil
can collect in the small spaces to help protect, wick along the crank
shaft and encourage the castor to stay more fluid.  

Small Cox Logo RC Plane Small Cox Logo
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Happy Re: Cox .01 /.02 /.05 Engines & Mods / Nano Speed Planes

Post  1/2A Nut on Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:54 pm

Here check out the special label he made for my fuel lol Laughing Cool


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Happy Re: Cox .01 /.02 /.05 Engines & Mods / Nano Speed Planes

Post  Littlebuzz_97 on Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:07 pm

Hahaha that’s awesome! Laughing

I’ll have to do some more flying and use up the rest of my fuel so I can try something with synthetic in it.

My sexy back plate arrived for my .020... a precise piece of engineering Very Happy
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Happy Re: Cox .01 /.02 /.05 Engines & Mods / Nano Speed Planes

Post  1/2A Nut on Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:17 pm

Yes too funny that was a surprise.

Woo hoo that is good news!!
I oiled the O ring and backed off the cylinder prior to installing the back plate,
also check for burrs on the crank case where the bolts go in as I found a few of
my cases needed a bit of leveling off.

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Happy Re: Cox .01 /.02 /.05 Engines & Mods / Nano Speed Planes

Post  Littlebuzz_97 on Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:30 pm

Hopefully my needle valve assembly turns up today and maybe bench run it tonight Very Happy

I don’t think I’ll use my rc cylinder on this plane, just more weight and I’ll only be flying full throttle anyway Eyebrows
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Happy Re: Cox .01 /.02 /.05 Engines & Mods / Nano Speed Planes

Post  1/2A Nut on Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:50 pm

You can run it a tad rich to get use to the speed increase then tweak the needle from there
good trick when no throttle on tap. Should be building the .020 version soon still on the fence
as to which size to go with. Looking forward to testing the 3 blade prop with a static 118mph
pitch speed it should be very fast unloaded If I can keep it under 4oz.
Popcorn Vid vid vid Popcorn
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Post  Littlebuzz_97 on Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:09 pm

I’d build the nanoX 18.5” span, smaller the better for speed it should fly good and you wouldn’t have as much drag+ it will be lighter RC Plane
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Happy Re: Cox .01 /.02 /.05 Engines & Mods / Nano Speed Planes

Post  1/2A Nut on Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:04 am

Yes possible with the right gear for sure 2ch micro gear will have less issues fitting inside the small 18.5" span version.

Here is the gear in mind, the servos are 4.8v to 6v up to 17 to 22oz torque / aluminum gears / digital / coreless motor
Weight 5.8g robust enough to use with the TD .049 with speed flying surfaces.
With the battery shown may add the second one in parallel for 80mah total would add an additional 6.6g
Appears I can fit the gear in the 20" span version fuselage the 18.5" will be very tight as a 3ch. I will have to make
up the fuselage with slight height and width adjustments. I know the arrangement to gain a good CG based on previous builds.
RX in the back then the elevator / throttle servos then the void for the aileron servo with the battery up behind the fuel tank.
Getting it to RTF at 4oz will be a careful dance as the gear weight has added up in lieu of metal gear servos, I have the same
size servos in plastic gears 3.7g ea.

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Post  1/2A Nut on Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:15 pm

FYI prop in pic on the scale was bench tested last weekend HQ 4x4.5 cut to 3.72x4.5 results in the pic.
Thrust is reasonable.  Could take a bit more off the back cut to up prop speed. If at 96mph static
should yield 120 ish down wind passes. Not the spinner insets right into the prop hub this one spins
with not wobble in the spinner a plus.





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Post  1/2A Nut on Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:23 am

Taking it down to the actual physical size of the NANO II and III planes I have a full size
rendering of the % take down to the smallest flown and the largest flown. Looking at
the other sizes based on the flown proportions should help fit a suitable engine displacement.

At 10% reductions down to the smallest there is fudge room to fine tune sizes based on
getting the gear to fit into the smallest possible fuselage. The 64% Nano II is a major strain to
fly with a TD .010 there is no possible way to fly it with a TD .020 however with a electric motor
one could launch and fly at slow enough speeds to get use to the power perhaps power up to 60w
The size is small and a screaming TD .010 makes it haul arse out of good visual fast.

Actual paper template used for the NANO III


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Post  1/2A Nut on Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:28 am

Radar gear came in the mail the tripod in the kit tested shows to elevate the gun to 4.5ft. that
maybe enough to monitor on vid. After reading the manual the gun has the ability to read
in real time continuous as mentioned before without holding the trigger button, but it will
also do one key feature that makes it most worthy by pulling the trigger once after the flight
it displays the highest reading recorded. This feature insures you get to the end goal a max
speed reading. No need to have the LED monitor but is worth having if you want each pass
caught on vid with a separate reading and to insure your plane is getting read by the gun.
This radar gun is a perfect hands free setup for the buck able to read up to 200 mph this takes
care of most projects at a minimal one needs the tripod to go hands free.

The monitor is bright indoors I was quite shocked by the intensity but much needed when outdoors.
It's a good set up but does not come with a protective padded bag for the gear so I bought one off
Ebay that has close dimensions for a good fit with no wasted space. Has a outside pouch to hold the
radar gun very nice compact tote in the mail as of today hope to get it by next weekend.

Suitable padded bag:
Gator BAG-1818 - 18" x 18" x 5.5"
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gator-G-MIXERBAG-1818-18-x-18-x-5-5-Mixer-Gea/263351035115?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649









Also a German guy made mention to me he like the Nano series and made one for elect.  took it one step further
and made up a composite fuselage here is a pic. Flown with a 4.1x4.1 / 230g RTF

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Happy Re: Cox .01 /.02 /.05 Engines & Mods / Nano Speed Planes

Post  balogh on Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:38 am

Great gear Brad..how do you make sure the plane will pass the visual area of the gun?

I am looking forward to comparing the true speed to the theoretical speed computed from engine rpm and prop pitch..
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Happy Re: Cox .01 /.02 /.05 Engines & Mods / Nano Speed Planes

Post  1/2A Nut on Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:43 am

Yes me too been wanting a way to go hands free with radar for many years.

The highest reading on that pass will be displayed as the plane passes thru
the sweet spot of the radar gate. As the plane goes past me the video will
show the speed reading plus the best top speed out of all current passes
in the bottom right hand corner of the LED screen. If I have a good pass and
come straight in towards the radar gun the video will show a good reading
when reviewing the video you can clearly see the flight path each per pass.


You do not want to radar the side of the plane it must come in aiming straight at
the radar gun to avoid bad readings known as the "Cosine Effect" on target velocity.

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