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Spot the real Oliver Tiger (quiz) Empty

Spot the real Oliver Tiger (quiz)

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Which engine is a genuine Oliver Tiger?

Spot the real Oliver Tiger (quiz) Vote_lcap35%Spot the real Oliver Tiger (quiz) Vote_rcap 35% 
[ 6 ]
Spot the real Oliver Tiger (quiz) Vote_lcap65%Spot the real Oliver Tiger (quiz) Vote_rcap 65% 
[ 11 ]
 
Total Votes : 17
 

Spot the real Oliver Tiger (quiz) Empty Spot the real Oliver Tiger (quiz)

Post  ian1954 Sat Jun 04, 2016 7:31 pm

Spot the real Oliver Tiger (quiz) Spot_t10

A clue - the one on the left has this stamped on the mounting lug

Spot the real Oliver Tiger (quiz) 1986_o10
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Post  Oldenginerod Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:28 pm

A difficult comparison as one appears to be a Mk 3 & one a Mk 4, having marked differences.  I would expect that the last picture would confirm one's answer, but then, maybe it's a trick question.  Huh...  Could it be that obvious?
Rod.

(Mind you, I know nothing about OTs, apart from what Mr Google has told me).
Here's a very comprehensive article.
http://modelenginenews.org/cornell/oliver_reprod.html
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Post  ian1954 Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:36 am

Rod,

There is a extremely fine Oliver Tiger Clone made in Australia - the Rothwell R250.

http://aerosports.net.au/LS/Classic_FAI_Teamrace_Site/Engines_sources.html

I think they are still being produced even with a long waiting list. They come up for sale here very rarely and command genuine Olly prices so they are sought after.
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Post  ian1954 Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:34 am

Thank you - the voting is picking up now.
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Post  gcb Sun Jun 05, 2016 6:12 pm

I believe they are both CS replicas. The Mk-3 has a visible back plate gasket which my CS has...but my real Mk-3 doesn't. Also the tommy bar is different, as is a few other things, like the needle valve assembly.

George
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Post  Oldenginerod Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:47 pm

@gcb wrote:I believe they are both CS replicas. The Mk-3 has a visible back plate gasket which my CS has...but my real Mk-3 doesn't. Also the tommy bar is different, as is a few other things, like the needle valve assembly.

George
Yeah, I said it was a trick question.  I think the real OTs had a number stamped on the side of the mounting lug.  I did also read somewhere about the backplate gasket thing.
Ian, maybe you needed to add a "C" option.  I wanna retract my vote.  What?  I reckon George has nailed it.
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Post  ian1954 Mon Jun 06, 2016 4:15 am

All will be revealed tonight (UK time).

Perhaps I should have had a C and a D option - both clones and both real Cool

Meanwhile, voting at 3 for the left and 6 for the right.

As for trick question - not really. The aim of this topic is to show how difficult it can be to spot the real deal but more later.

George and Rod,

Your last comments have the answers but ..............
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Post  ian1954 Mon Jun 06, 2016 3:24 pm

Well now it is time to reveal the answer with the vote standing at 3 for the left hand engine and 8 for the right hand engine.

But before that, here are some real Oliver Tigers from my collection.

The Major

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t9832-oliver-tiger-major-mkii-3-5cc#124787

A couple of MkIVs

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t9833-oliver-tiger-mk-iv#124790

A couple of JO19s

https://www.coxengineforum.com/t9834-oliver-tiger-jo19s#124791


Spot the real Oliver Tiger (quiz) Oliver13

Now for the result.
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Post  ian1954 Mon Jun 06, 2016 3:52 pm

The engine on the left is the pukka Oliver Tiger.

George and Ron were perfectly correct in their observations but not in the conclusion. The left hand engine is a 1986 Oliver Tiger MkIV Competition Special.

That is what the CS stamped on the lug means. If there was a trick - that was it.

Spot the real Oliver Tiger (quiz) Olly_v10

I also chose one of my clones that had a very good quality casting (not all CS clones are like that).

There are a lot of clones out there - Oliver Tigers are sought after, still in production with a long waiting list, considered the "Rolls Royce" of British diesels and command a premium. It is easy to be fooled by a clone and Ollies are a prime target for the unscrupulous.

Similarly, I saw a well used Olly on Fleabay a few weeks ago with the CS on the lug. The bidding stayed low - unusual for Ollies and so I posted a comment to say it was a Competition Special and asked for the serial number. After the seller posted this - the bidding went through the roof. Most bidders had assumed it was a CS clone.

Thanks for the comments and the participation.



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Post  gcb Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:32 pm

Just for the heck of it, a real OT-Mk-3 on left, CS replica on right. Yes, the real OT's have serial numbers on the mounting lug. Got my real one in ~1958, and yes, there was a waiting line back then too.
Spot the real Oliver Tiger (quiz) Otmk3a10  
Spot the real Oliver Tiger (quiz) Otmk3b10
Spot the real Oliver Tiger (quiz) P9110511

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Post  getback Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:44 am

Well I know nothing about the engines in question ,but from observing a what I thing was real from a look up I guessed the one on the right , thanks to Ian though there is no wrong answer lol enjoyed and thanks for the education . Eric Eyebrows
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Post  ian1954 Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:51 am

@gcb wrote:Just for the heck of it, a real OT-Mk-3 on left, CS replica on right. Yes, the real OT's have serial numbers on the mounting lug. Got my real one in ~1958, and yes, there was a waiting line back then too.
George

That is one pristine golden oldie.

There was always a waiting list and after a flying season - all the Ollies were put through many hours of service - they were returned to John Oliver for a rebore/ cylinder/piston replacement and a general overall. Much cheaper than a replacement engine. They always looked like new on return and needed running in again.

It was also not unusual to order a "blueprinted" factory upgrade. These were supplied with "MOD" on the new or returned engine.

It is one of the few engines I know of that increased in value after purchase. A run in version was worth more than a brand new one and they changed hands very quickly.




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Post  gcb Tue Jun 07, 2016 12:18 pm

@ian1954 wrote:
That is one pristine golden oldie.

There was always a waiting list and after a flying season - all the Ollies were put through many hours of service - they were returned to John Oliver for a rebore/ cylinder/piston replacement and a general overall. Much cheaper than a replacement engine. They always looked like new on return and needed running in again.

It was also not unusual to order a "blueprinted" factory upgrade. These were supplied with "MOD" on the new or returned engine.

It is one of the few engines I know of that increased in value after purchase. A run in version was worth more than a brand new one and they changed hands very quickly.


My OT was $24.95 back in the day. I was fortunate in that someone had ordered one from the distributor but backed out...so I got mine in ~two weeks instead of two months. Smile Because of the difference in wages between then and now, I'm guessing that the price has remained relatively about the same.

I THINK the price of the modified version was $32.95 at the time. Sorry if I am wrong but those prices are from memory and it was about 60 years ago.

George
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Post  ian1954 Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:38 pm

In 1965 the MkIII was £6 - 10 - 0d and the factory modification was £2 - 10 - 0d. That was six pounds and ten shillings and two pounds and ten shillings. The exchange rate was 2.80 dollars to the pound. £6.50 and £2.50 in todays decimal currency (exchange) rate 1.46

Todays new prices. Lead times 12 weeks.(est)

Oliver Engines

Mk111 (short or long) £185.00
Mk1V £185.00
Mk V £300.00
Major £195.00
Mk11 Cub £185.00
Schneurle Cub £195.00
JO19 £225.00
VCS £220.00

Spares charges

Rebore on Customers Engine £40.00
Backplate £9.50
Cylinder Assy
(liner,piston,gudgeon pin,contra piston
Chrome bore as standard) £45.00
Piston and Pin £12.00
NVA £ 9.00
NVA clip only £1.00
Prop Driver £7.50
Collet £5.50
Crankshaft £44.00
Prop Nuts £5.50
Venturi £ 8.50
Conrod £15.00
Gaskets ( under cylinder liner) £1.00
Cylinder Head
Not Schneurle or MK V £18.50
Bearings (2) £15.00
Head Bolt Sets £8.00
Comp Screw plain £6.00
Comp Screw Allen Key head £5.50
Steel Washer £1.00
Muffler £18.50
Gudgeon Pin £6.50
Peripheral banjo(Complete Assy £25.00) £7.50

R/C Throttle £55.00

All prices are
The VCS is based on a MK1V and is the same engine that JSO produced many years ago, more suited to the collector. It has a 12mm Shaft and a .575 square Bore and Stroke.GBP and subject to P&P

The JO19 is a 3.2cc model designed for vintage combat. It is based on a MK1V crankcase with a drop-in liner
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