paint and varnish

ninjaman Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:55 pm

Hello,

I recently built a beginner kit from black hawk and painted it with what i thought was fuel proof gloss silver. the silver keeps coming off onto my skin and apparently, according to the tin, it has lead in it. this is worrying me. so i am ditching the plane for now.
i have some plastikote, would this work as a fuel proof paint. the spectra glulines stuff i got is apparently just fuel resistant meaning not full fuel proof. i also got some polyurethane varnish, clear stuff; apparently full proof that i thought i would use to cover a painted model. the paint would be regular paint with a cover of clear varnish.
what are you thoughts on this?

thanks

simon

pkrankow Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:46 pm

Your best bet is to simply prepare a board with paint and test it.

I typically paint about 4 inches of a piece of 2x4, apply a fuel wet paper towel folded up smaller than the paint sample, then a piece of plastic, and walk away for an hour. After an hour I remove the plastic and towel. If there is blistering or other coating failure I know there is a problem. If not I lightly rub the coating with the fuel wet paper towel and see if the color transfers, or the coating peels. Most dark colors transfer with light rubbing, which is fine. Many colors change slightly, and return to normal after several hours. Some coatings are fine without rubbing, and if let dry remain fine, but peel right off with light rubbing (Killz primer acted this way when I experimented, I decided it was not suitable, but may test again as it would be sanded quite a bit if I were to use it.)

Putting a fuel proof coating over a non-fuel proof coating is always somewhat concerning, but it is something that has been done by many many people. The biggest risk is around the engine mounts where it is difficult to keep ANY type of coating intact.

It is always a good idea to test a sample layer cake. Sometimes things will surprise you. For example: Balsarite over dope = fine, Balsarite over Rustoleum = fine, however Balsarite over Rustoleum over dope = orange peeling mess that is NOT fine.

Phil

gcb Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:13 am

ninjaman wrote:Hello,
I recently built a beginner kit from black hawk and painted it with what i thought was fuel proof gloss silver. the silver keeps coming off onto my skin and apparently, according to the tin, it has lead in it. this is worrying me. so i am ditching the plane for now...

Your best bet is to stick with model paint. Many paint products use either alcohol or nitro methane to thin them or clean painting tools. Since your paint had lead, I would dispose of it (in the proper manner for your area). You can either dispose of your model or salvage it. If you choose to salvage it, remove the paint using the proper chemical paint remover. I would NOT suggest sanding it off.

Some folks have good luck with "rattle can" Rust-Oleum...except for the metallic paints, like silver. Some also reported that those paints need to sit for a few days to completely dry. I do not use them so I can only relay what I have read.

Good luck,
George

**RknRusty** Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:34 pm

gcb wrote:
ninjaman wrote:Hello,
I recently built a beginner kit from black hawk and painted it with what i thought was fuel proof gloss silver. the silver keeps coming off onto my skin and apparently, according to the tin, it has lead in it. this is worrying me. so i am ditching the plane for now...

Some folks have good luck with "rattle can" Rust-Oleum...except for the metallic paints, like silver. Some also reported that those paints need to sit for a few days to completely dry. I do not use them so I can only relay what I have read.

More like a week or three last time I used Rustoleum. I have never heard of a fuel resistant metallic of any brand of rattlecan paint, but I did successfully spray the Krylon silver nose on a plane with fuel resistant Lustrekote clear by dusting it on a little at a time. Nothing is actually "Proof," but some are very resistant. The most bulletproof stuff I've used lately is Minwax Polyurethane clear, but it does have a slight yellowish hue. Not the Minwax Polycrilic, it's water based and can be used to make sanding sealer with lots of talc, or just plain to lay on silkspan prior to priming.
Welcome to CEF, Simon.
Rusty

EDIT: Regarding the lead, depending how old you are and whether any kids will be in contact with it, I...meaning Me... would not worry about such a small application. But I'll be brain dead long before a smidge of paint chases me down, and I have no grands yet. Hell, we used to paint whole houses with it. My biggest fear is George calling the EPA on me and dragging me off to lead prison Lol... Just kidding George.
But I am absolutely a stickler for proper disposal of Haz Mats.

ninjaman Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:39 pm

Hello,

thanks for your advice. i have bought some polyurethane varnish, i think i will give that a go. i know that plastikote does not work as i have just tried it. sprayed some on a piece of wood and left some nitromethane on it, within minutes the paint blistered and rubbed off.

gcb Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:05 pm

RknRusty wrote: ... EDIT: Regarding the lead, depending how old you are and whether any kids will be in contact with it, I...meaning Me... would not worry about such a small application. But I'll be brain dead long before a smidge of paint chases me down, and I have no grands yet. Hell, we used to paint whole houses with it. My biggest fear is George calling the EPA on me and dragging me off to lead prison Lol... Just kidding George.
But I am absolutely a stickler for proper disposal of Haz Mats.

My fear was that he would sand it off without using a proper mask. I too have used lead paint for houses. Many years ago. Sad

George

pkrankow Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:22 pm

gcb wrote:
RknRusty wrote: ... EDIT: Regarding the lead, depending how old you are and whether any kids will be in contact with it, I...meaning Me... would not worry about such a small application. But I'll be brain dead long before a smidge of paint chases me down, and I have no grands yet. Hell, we used to paint whole houses with it. My biggest fear is George calling the EPA on me and dragging me off to lead prison Lol... Just kidding George.
But I am absolutely a stickler for proper disposal of Haz Mats.

My fear was that he would sand it off without using a proper mask. I too have used lead paint for houses. Many years ago.

George

I too have had to deal with lead paint. I have had to clean up the mess...including helping in digging out an entire flower bed a foot down and replacing the soil. (say, 3 ft x 30 ft) I was not a homeowner at the time, just help.

In this case either seal it and use it or dispose of it properly. I would seal it and fly it.

Phil

ninjaman Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:27 am

hello all,

could i seal it using the polyurethane varnish that i bought?
just got a testers spitfire on ebay for £35, looking forward to that
cheers
simon

pkrankow Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:29 am

The polyurethane should work fine. A concern is getting too heavy with paint to fly well.

Phil

**RknRusty** Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:17 pm

I like to apply polyurethane with a T-Shirt rag and wipe it on lightly. Then sand it just enough to smooth it and wipe on another thin coat. The stuff is the most fuel proof coating I know of. Acetone won't even bother it. And it dries very quickly too. This will get you in the air faster than most anything other than dope. I also use a toothpick dipped in urethane to seal the insides of screw holes and other tiny entry points for fuel and oil. Minwax makes some called Spar urethane, and Pro urethane, but I just use the regular solvent based PU. But NOT the water based Polycrilic.
Rusty

paint and varnish Minwax10

NEW222 Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:26 pm

RknRusty wrote:I like to apply polyurethane with a T-Shirt rag and wipe it on lightly. Then sand it just enough to smooth it and wipe on another thin coat. The stuff is the most fuel proof coating I know of. Acetone won't even bother it. And it dries very quickly too. This will get you in the air faster than most anything other than dope. I also use a toothpick dipped in urethane to seal the insides of screw holes and other tiny entry points for fuel and oil. Minwax makes some called Spar urethane, and Pro urethane, but I just use the regular solvent based PU. But NOT the water based Polycrilic.
Rusty

Thanks Rusty for the tip on applying the polyurethane. That is exactly the product I have been using and have been going through a bunch of paint brushes. I will try your method next time.

pkrankow Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:53 am

I've been using the rattle can version of this stuff. Maybe I'll try a rag next time as the rattle cans are expensive, comparatively speaking.

Phil

getback Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:00 am

I have yet to use this on a plane but have used it and the clean up is Mineral Spirits ... http://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tnpla/70250485?src=pla&cid=PLA-Google-PLA+-+Test&CS_003=7867724&CS_010=70250485&mkwid=%5B*GCLIP*%5D&prcid=%5B*GCLSRC%5D

**RknRusty** Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:40 am

As with any paint can, when you open it the first time, use a big nail and a hammer to punch 4 or 5 holes around the gutter so any of the product that fills it will drain back into the can. A half pint is enough to last a very long time, but what causes me to discard it early is gunky floaters that accumulate in the paint. The cleaner you can keep that rim clean, the longer it'll last.

Now, speaking of all this, I have some sanding to do this morning. I'm finishing the flaps and applied a coat of Pcrylic last night and brought them into the house to harden. Now I sand and apply sanding sealer made with PC and talc. Then I'll sand that and apply silkspan with pure PC. Sand again, prime, sand, and finally color, white in this case. After all the colors are done, I'll spray Brodak clear butyrate dope on the whole plane. I guess that was a Twister update. I'll hvae to post a pic over in that thread.
Rusty

getback Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:01 am

As with any paint can, when you open it the first time, use a big nail and a hammer to punch 4 or 5 holes around the gutter so any of the product that fills it will drain back into the can. wrote:

Thanks , I have never done this and makes good since . It can get a lot of crusty flacks in the can ,not good . tongue

Eric

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