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Post  roddie on Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:02 am

Can you say John Lord?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fp0L2I6vKg


That's a "tube overdrive" unit for Hammond tone-wheel organs. I have a Hammond M103 (circa 1960's) in storage.. and I have a week to get it out.. due to renovations. I'll probably have to sell it.. or let it go if I can't move it. I was searching eBay for what the M100 series was bringing $$$ on average, which is approx. $300-400 dollars. The thought of having to get rid of it makes my stomach turn.. but there's no room for it here at home. My Leslie 147 tone-cabinet is sitting out in my shed.. which also makes my stomach turn. The Leslie (amp) is a BEAR to gig with because of it's size.. (about the size and weight of an average washing machine..) The Hammond tone-wheel organ and Leslie combo is the staple set-up for playing 70's classic-rock tunes. John Lord (of Deep Purple fame) no doubt; had his Hammond set up with a custom tube overdrive unit back in the day.. Like anything else desired.. all it takes is money.  Money Toss
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Post  Surfer_kris on Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:46 pm

This one would "only" require about $550 Smile

if I had an extra $650.00 232665761_88277997-ac2f-46a4-8619-70e1bcd912a7
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Post  getback on Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:00 am

Yea I know the feeling about wanting to not get rid of the good stuff , I have a fender deluxe reverb 100 watt. tube amp I bought for 100- long time ago and just got fixed not long ago for another 100 - that can bee herd outside for a 1/2a mile away LOL . I have been contemplating on selling but just cant bring myself to it knowing I will never get another , like I really need one anyway This Site Rocks!
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Post  fredvon4 on Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:13 pm

Very very briefly in the early 70s I was a drummer (high school band) in a back yard neighbor hood band. I was also a pretty good electronics geek (for the time) after being mentored by my dad (helping build Heath kit stuff) and a old neighborhood guy on Ham radio.....I am still KD5NCO

Local bands were always in short supply for High School proms...sweet sixteen parties. With the bigger names in the area being very expensive, so we had a "season" where we were booked a lot and fairly busy... not the top desired band in the area, but we did have a "benefactor" ( a band member's rich father) who set us up with most of the... back then...state of the art gizmos and equipment...much like mentioned above....the equipment actually made us more desirable...funny that.. as IMO... we sucked

We needed a small Ryder/Pensky/U-haul van to load and move ALL the stuff and cabling

Funny memory...a lot of places did NOT have the JUICE we needed...IE...they thought  15 amp service in only one outlet would cut it...NOT!...thus we had a very long, and very large Gage power cord extension to jack into 60/100/200 amp power panels...one of my jobs

We played mostly CCR (Fogerty), Beatles, Rare Earth, Moody Blues,( terribly) and some respectable versions of Jimmy Hendrix or Ike and Tina Turner

loading, set up, and tear down was what we got paid for... in my mind.... many, many hours of labor... the music was just for the attendees and they suffered through our lower skill abilities...grin

of course this experience did a LOT to shape who I am and taught me a lot about customer relations and expectations

I think today's sound processor electronics do NOT have the presence and warmth of a lot of the older analog tube based, near perfect, sounding equivalents...not only amps, speakers but a lot has to do with microphones....some of the Old school mics were absolute wonders and hard to simulate with processing...IMO
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Post  KariFS on Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:53 pm

I can't play any instruments except table-edge drums and also pretty good air guitar...

But I do love good music, and for around 650 I could get one of these:

if I had an extra $650.00 Xpression_2

http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=xpression

My old Technics direct drive is getting a bit tired, but even if I did get a new turntable I don't think I could part with it. So many lawns mowed, so many chores and small jobs done to get it. I was 13 or 14 when I got it, it was second hand of course. I have upgraded the cartridge a couple of times. Here she is, rockin' to Joan Jett Cool

if I had an extra $650.00 Image45

Well, now that I think about it, nevermind, I am stickin' with my old friend. Maybe some higher-end CD player instead... Or maybe get my old Pioneer A-757 amp fixed Huh...
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Post  OVERLORD on Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:36 pm

Thanks for posting that video Roddie, that is definitely the John Lord sound. Below a video of a program called TIENERKLANKEN ("Sounds for teens") on Belgian television in the late 60's and following 70's. The program shows Deep Purple at JAZZ BILZEN in Belgium with the band performing Wring That Neck and the improvised solo's of John Lord (6min34 and 15.20)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqQL8XSzaAw

To me, he belongs to the top 3 of progressive rock keyboard players with Thijs Van Leer and Keith Emerson. What is typical to them is their classic music education and classic music themes used in their solos. Lord played Bach's Tocata and Fuga and Grieg's Peer Gynt Suite while Emerson's Pictures at An eExhibition was based on Moussorgsky.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4igIQ2TOASg



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSumsdfyiv8

Thijs Van Leer's House Of The King was baroque inspired.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3A3FhZUpa8

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Post  getback on Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:04 pm

I hear you Fred , but nothing sucks when your having FUN with the buds at the time ,, Kari , I have that turn table in DD but not Quite the same style ,, Lieven THANKS !! for the Jams ( I cant get Eagle Rock ( but that's OK .. Good Thread Roddie .. O that's right ur busy prepping for the Maiden;S Flying a Plane Damn! Roger is my Bud and he knows I am just pickin at him Thanksgiving Dinner
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Post  roddie on Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:36 pm

HOT DAMN... Thanks for the comments guys! I don't know who to address first.. but I'll pick Lieven.. because of his posting of the 1st vid. I'd never seen that! It's the epitome of John Lord's style of "tearing it up" on a Hammond organ!
I've got to make a decision within days; as to the fate of mine. When I got it.. it hadn't been played (or serviced) for years. It was however; kept from harm. There still isn't a scratch on it's maple cabinet. These organs have what's called a "tone-wheel generator" that gives them that classic sound. It's an electro-mechanical marvel of gears, pick-ups, cams, shafts... and a wick-oiling system fed by 3 funnels through a trogh. If allowed to go dry of oil.. the tone-generator will seize-up. Mine was seized when I first bought it. I chose to purchase the proper oil, to try to free it up. The "proper" oil is widely disputed by Hammond purists. Some swear by the original blend/viscosity that the Hammond Co. used.. and some say that "sewing-machine" oil will work fine. It took several "oilings" over the course of weeks to free-up my tone-generator. check-out this YouTube vid..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qqmr6IiFLE


There's a bit of electro-mechanical engineering going on there...

Eric, my advice to you on that Fender 100w Deluxe guitar amplifier is; don't get rid of it.. unless you trade it for another one with at least 1/2 the tube-circuit wattage. 35-40w of tube-power will give you more control over your tone. You could very likely make an even-swap for a similar-vintage Fender tube-amp of 1/2 the wattage. I don't know too much about guitar amps. I'm guessing that your Fender Deluxe is a "combo" (amplifier and speakers in the same cabinet) Marshall makes combo's and also separate "heads" which are separate from the speaker-cabinet. Neither is better than the other.. but anything higher than a 50w tube-amplified circuit is "overkill" and very hard to tame. If there's a "Guitar-Center" chain store near you.. bring your axe down there.. and ask if they have any tube-amps in the 30-50w range that you can try. Even without any effects-pedals.. you'll be amazed at the power. Even a single 12" speaker/combo will wail.. and would be a LOT lighter to carry. Guessing that your 100w. "Deluxe" has a pair of 12's..

Fred... "what can I say"... those sound like GOOD TIMES brother! I'm very surprised that you haven't revisited them along this long-road of life.. especially after having "had a taste". Do you ever get the urge? There's a resurgence of upgraded vintage-technology sound gear being offered these days. Remember "Neve" mic pre-amps? Their still being made.. and there's also real good money to be made in sound reinforcement. You could pay a system off in a year.. if you hustled.. and imagine the fun you'd have doing it? You already have a good idea of what you'd need to get. WiFi controlling a digital mixer through an iPad is how they do it today. Midas-designed Behringer digital mixing-consoles are literally killing the competition. Do you still have a drum-kit? Maybe take that route. Less cash outlay.. meet some fellow musicians in your area.. and jam-out a few times a month. Good for the soul.. it works for me!

Kari... Man.. I love vintage stereo gear! Keep that old turntable going! Technics is good stuff IMHO... and vinyl will NEVER go away. It will be listened to for it's sonic properties until the end of time! There's nothing that compares as far as I'm concerned. It's like a "motion" or "physical" thing going on when a record is playing on a turntable. I have two 1970's vintage Technics receivers. They were both originally bought overseas at military BX's. One is a "quad" SA8000X that I used to make 4-channel recordings with. Talk about 3-D audio!

Kris.. That's a wicked engine! Definitely for the scale enthusiast!



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Post  Oldenginerod on Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:18 am

Seeing the Tone Generator it reminded me of our first gig after a church we played at gave us their old no-longer-used Hammond organ. That thing had to sit there "idling" for a while before it was warmed up enough to play in tune. Being in the back line on Bass, I was fascinated standing beside it throughout the gig listening to that living thing breathing and groaning beside me. There's something truly "organic" (excuse the pun) about these old mechanical wonders. It really is like a living thing, and oh, what a sweet sound through the old Leslie Tone Cabinet.

Rod.
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Post  roddie on Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:15 pm

Oldenginerod wrote:Seeing the Tone Generator it reminded me of our first gig after a church we played at gave us their old no-longer-used Hammond organ.  That thing had to sit there "idling" for a while before it was warmed up enough to play in tune.  Being in the back line on Bass, I was fascinated standing beside it throughout the gig listening to that living thing breathing and groaning beside me.  There's something truly "organic" (excuse the pun) about these old mechanical wonders.  It really is like a living thing, and oh, what a sweet sound through the old Leslie Tone Cabinet.

Rod.

Amen to that Rod! The "Leslies" were/are an electro-mechanical marvel as well. It's the Doppler-effect at work. Hearing one "live" in a room.. is much different than hearing a recording of one being used. It's like comparing 3-D sound to 2-D sound. Most listeners will hear the difference between the two rotor-speeds.. being "Chorale" (slow) and "Tremolo" (fast).. regardless whether "live" or "recorded". The difference is a "physical" one.. when listening "live". The Leslie's 15" bass-speaker is mounted mid-cabinet on a shelf facing down into a rotating-drum having a 90 degree curved baffle. This handles lower-frequencies. It's known as the "bass-rotor". Above.. is a compression-driver mounted on an upper shelf and facing "up" into a "yoke" that couples it to a dual horn-shaped reflector. The two horns are 180 degrees of each other. Only one of the two horns has an opening for the sound to go through. The other one is merely for dynamic balancing. This is known as the "treble-rotor". Both rotors are driven by two-speed motors via pulleys/drive-belts; switchable in tandem by the operator. The "sound" comes out of the cabinet on a horizontal-plane.. but is moving in a 360 degree circular motion.. creating the Doppler-effect. Listening to a "Leslie-amplified" recording through stationary speaker cabinets does not duplicate this. Some successes have been made electronically through stereo "phase-shifting" with VERY expensive effects pedals.. but it's "still" a linear stereo effect designed to fool the ear.

The bass and treble rotors turn at slightly different rpm's. In "chorale" setting (slow) the bass-rotor typically rotates at 40 rpm and the treble-rotor at 50 rpm. On "tremolo" setting (fast) the bass-rotor typically rotates at 340 rpm and the treble-rotor at 400 rpm.

Leslie amps are a challenge to mic properly for sound-reinforcement in big rooms/arenas. They're best; experienced "un-mic'd" in small rooms. Go to see a good hot "Blues" band featuring a Hammond/Leslie player in a small bar.. and you'll know exactly what I mean!
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Post  fredvon4 on Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:15 pm

Circa 1971~1973...Bay area (SF, Oakland, Berkeley California) LOUDER was perceived as BETTER...NOT so IMO(to a music trained ear)!

WE were a simple 4 man band..lead guitar, bass guitar, Piano/organ. Drummer....none of us was "carry a tune in a bucket capable" but we PHAKED it real well

I remember and love the Leslie phone...what a wonder to hear...in front or right next too...(what, did you say something?...speak up)!!!... I really suspect my Army Artillery and Helicopter career ((with ear plugs)) did not damage my ears...the freaky super amps did!!!

Like all kids at the time, Wipe OUT, Get Ready, and a slew of other long drum solos were a lot of fun o learn, play (loudly!!)...or hack at

I actually love some of the recent movies about drumming....the HS band competition, or the kid with a psycho jazz band leader...the name of each movie escapes me right now

Our benefactor got us a Leslie Phone....I seem to remember a bit of grousing from him as in 1972 that bugger was about $2900 bucks..a VERY LOT OF MONEY then

He had the notion...laughable now that I think about it... that if he kept his son, ( our bass player) occupied.... then sex drugs and other bad sh-t would be no problem.... Our Bass player was the biggest pot head of the bunch... I swear I toked but NEVER inhaled

Hearing a Leslie in person is the only way!!! period and the damned thing can make a very mediocre drum solo sound actually pretty freaking cool!!!...well anyway it got me laid...ah er, I mean intimate, with a few very nice local girls

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Post  roddie on Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:31 pm

"Phaked it.." Laughing that's beautiful! My Leslie model 147 was purchased "used" in the very early 1980's at a music shop that I still frequent. I can't remember exactly what we paid for it.. but $800.00 seems to come to mind. The "147" has a 40w tube amp and uses a 2ch. "Combo Pre-Amp" pedal for connecting an audio source via a 1/4" cable (elec. guitar cord). There are 2 inputs with separate gain for each. The pedal has a push-button foot-switch for choosing slow/fast speeds.. and an amber indicator lamp that illuminates on fast-speed. The cab's amp has a 6-pin Amphenol male jack for connecting to the pedal via a heavy cable that supplies power to the amp and rotor motors.. as well as the audio signal.

pre-amp pedal

if I had an extra $650.00 Leslie10
if I had an extra $650.00 Leslie11

6-pin 10ft cable

if I had an extra $650.00 Leslie12

innards to a Leslie 147 (similar to mine)

if I had an extra $650.00 Leslie13

Hammond organs are wired differently.. and don't use the pre-amp pedal. The Leslies designed for Hammond organs are different too. The Heavy cable(s) that connect the Leslie to the Hammond organ have a center "key-pin" to prevent using the wrong cable and the wrong Leslie for the application. A Leslie model 122 is virtually the same as my 147.. but made to connect to a Hammond organ's amplifier. These are typically what are found in houses of worship.. having Hammond organs. Often there are a pair of 122's!

122 type 11-pin cable

if I had an extra $650.00 Leslie14

Model 122.. not much different than the 147 other than the wiring..

if I had an extra $650.00 Leslie15

The Leslie amplifiers are what's known as "self-biasing".. meaning that; when tube-replacement is needed, there is no adjustment needed to the amplifier. It is however best to replace all tubes with one's that have been "matched" to each other as a set.

Leslie 40w tube-amp

if I had an extra $650.00 Leslie16
if I had an extra $650.00 Leslie17

Set of tubes

if I had an extra $650.00 Leslie18

My 147 has had some upgrades. The stock "Jensen" compression-driver was replaced with a more powerful "Altec" unit; requiring a custom "yoke" to be fitted to mount it.. and mate with the pulley-bearing that drives the upper-rotor. The stock 15" bass speaker was replaced with an "Altec" unit; so as to match the ohm-load for the frequency cross-over network. That cost about $500 back about 35 years ago. Since then.. there have been some tube, relay and capacitor replacements.. as well as idler-adjustments to the motors. Leslie amplifiers do require maintenance to stay running properly. Both bass and treble rotors need their bearings lubricated periodically.

It's not a good idea to go poking around inside a tube-amp, if you don't know what you're doing. There are capacitors that store potentially-lethal doses of voltage.. even after the amplifier is disconnected from it's power-source.

My Leslie hasn't been powered-up in a couple of years now..  Crying or Very sad It sits out in the shed and probably has mice living in it..  Mad I started using it about 4 years ago.. prior to it being stored in the shed.. and plugged it in on the driveway after hauling it out. Tiny baby mice started crawling out of the bottom a few minutes after the bass rotor's drum started turning..  Shocked I felt pretty bad about that. I'll check next time beforehand; if/when I use it again.


Last edited by roddie on Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  fredvon4 on Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:57 pm

Roddie

I love this thread down memory lane

I remember a guy came over to play with us his *alto sax* and got jacked into the Leslie playing some Dire Straits tune in tremelo speed...really a cool sound in the open ended garage with as expected, terrible acoustics...

I also loved Smoke On The Water with the fast tremelo spun up and then dropped to Chorale on the Leslie....made the bass player sound like he knew the chords...sheesh!

I would love to revisit some of that past life, but in my area they are stuck on "cry in yer beer" country...thinking that Thunder Road is greatest song ever... or anything by Willy Nelson (who I do like)

When Austin City Limits ( on a local PBS station) features Stevie Ray Vaughn, I CRANK every watt I can into my home theater system

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Post  roddie on Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:45 pm

Just added some pics to my previous post. Yea.. "Country-Music" is popular everywhere. It's a great vein to explore if you're a composer or lyricist.. but more so the latter. There's a LOT of $$$ to be made there, if you can pitch a good song to the right "pitch-man". I have a writing partner who has a few good connections.. but "he's" the lyricist.. and I handle the piano/keyboard side of the musical content. He gets too "deep" in a lyrical-thought.. and I try to tell him to "keep it simple, short and clever". No one wants to have to think too much about where a tune is going "lyrically". It's all about setting the hook right-away.. to get the listener's attention.. and "keep that attention" going over the course of 3 minutes.. along with a short/well-placed "bridge" and a good instrumental solo.

I gotta go and get ready for a gig down on the coast of Southern RI tonight.. or I'd write a little more..! Thanks for the exchanges Phred!
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Post  fredvon4 on Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:48 am

Unusual high temps here and flitting about the shop finishing up some copy the parts for a few plane builds his winter

Cranked up Rare Earth and thought about this thread...found it!

While I have no intention to ever get to play again... I do love the technical side of music production from the 50s~through 80s and my ear does appreciate all the current sound processing can do

But still, to my nostalgic ear... ...exceptional microphones, good tube amps, state of the art speakers, and some combatant singe musician...can get me air drum or guitar playing all over the shop as I get a LOT done.....

Back a while I scored what seems to be a good enough speaker system for my shop....but right now Get ready needs about 1000 more watts for my mood

I am now planning to search for a WARP 25 system to share my fun with folks two counties over.....grin

Thinking about 1200 watt Carver system into a ancient set of JBL century 100s and Sansui 1500 towers...
Can you say Monsters of Rock...to loud?
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Post  fredvon4 on Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:04 pm

Speaking of exceptionally loud and clear music..

I personally detest LIVE recordings... I do NOT want to hear the crowd whistling, cheering, or screaming

I find it very hard to find studio recording of some songs I love

Example this current Rare Earth version of Get ready

BTW I love a lot of LONG version songs that feature each member in a psuedo solo along the way

Just venting and wondering if my opinion is rational or odd manish

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Post  roddie on Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:45 pm

Phred.. your tastes are your own! I have to ask though.. how is your current audio-system configured? Shocked Your talking about upgrading to a system that would suit a good size hall. Did you know that it takes 26 feet for a "bass" sound-wave to "mature"? That's basically the reason why you hear that insane "thumping" coming from a car-audio system that has big sub-woofer boxes mounted in the trunk. The body-panels are buzzing from the vibration... but inside the vehicle, it doesn't sound like that. Bass frequencies are also non-directional.. unlike higher frequencies in the sound-spectrum. That's why a bass/subwoofer can be placed anywhere in a room.. and actually hidden. You only need to "see" a subwoofer.. if you "want" to see it. Otherwise it can be placed behind a recliner in the corner.. under an end-table.. etc. My brother built his subs into the floor.. firing-up through the carpet/padding in adjacent corners of the room. He had Carver power-amps that were really sweet!

My "shop-system" consists of an old Denon AVR-1506 surround receiver, that delivers 75w RMS to the front/center/rear speakers. The sub-out channel is currently connected to a small Polk-Audio RM6750 powered-sub. It's adequate for general listening.. but I have a QSC RMX850 power-amp that I use in the band for a keyboard monitor amp, that I connect to an Altec cab that came from a movie theater! That cab has a 12" woofer.. and a 90 degree compression-driver. The amp delivers 200w RMS into 8ohms. the Altec cab is more than capable of handling that. The surrounds are an odd combo... the fronts are a pair of KLH model 23's.. the single center-channel is a KLH 911B and the rears are custom boxes that I made.. when Radio-Shack had a close-out/discontinue of their component-speaker parts. They're a pair of little boxes that I made to fit the 4"/40w RMS full-range speakers.. along with 100w RMS tweeters. They were originally designed for car-audio.. but I made boxes of 3/8" PVC on the CNC router where I worked at the time.. and laminated them with a flat-black laminate called "Metallico"..

if I had an extra $650.00 Dsc03210

Those two little cabs CRANK! My wife (Lynne) sings.. and she can sing.. That's how we met.. out singing karaoke some ten years ago. We frequently crank-up the workshop-system.. when we get the urge to sing along with some classic tunes.

Phred... save your ears. You don't need a thousand watts of power.. unless you want to do damage. 100w RMS is a LOT of power. It will sound great just tuning-in.. and give you the blast you want, when you turn-up the volume. You probably know the difference between RMS and "peak" referring to a speaker-cabinets power-handling abilities. The RMS (root mean square) value is the one you want to look at when matching an amplifier to the system.. to avoid blowing the speakers.. and also the total ohm-resistance; if the cab(s) have crossover networks. I'm just mentioning this for readers of the thread who may not know. Building custom audio-systems is still fun.. unlike computers.. Smile
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Post  Oldenginerod on Fri Oct 07, 2016 1:43 am

All this talk about big sound systems makes me nostalgic for the days that I could actually listen to stuff with some volume. I remember the moment that I first heard a CD through headphones- Dire Straits Love Over Gold. My family didn't appreciate my musical tastes back then so most of my listening was through headphones or in my car. Started in bands when I was 16. Still doing that, but boy things have changed. If we're doing an "electric" gig I need to use ear plugs these day, or in-ear monitors if available. Ya see I've got this weird thing growing (very slowly) in my head and it's attached to my acoustic & balance nerves. I first knew about it when I had a "melt down" in the middle of a week long music festival we were playing. My left ear shut down & my head felt like it was inside a tin can. I couldn't stand up and spent a day or so laying down. I couldn't sleep 'cause I kept having anxiety attacks, like I had claustrophobia in the open. Faded after a couple of days.
Turns out it's called an Acoustic Neuroma. The ringing in my left ear is now about equivalent to a Jumbo Jet. If I get exposed to too much loud noise the ear shuts down again and I get dizzy. I used to love going to concerts, but now the discomfort in my head isn't worth it and I have to wear plugs. I'd love to be able to get immersed in what I love, but the results are just not worth it nowadays.
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Post  fredvon4 on Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:44 am

oldengineRod...that is a shame...

My Army Career stared in the Field Artillery then into Helicopter maintenance... I learned very early the habit of muffs or ear plugs...but still retired with some significant loss at certain frequencies

To this day I still use ear plugs when weed-eating, in my wood shop, or running these small glow engines

I do have a very significant amount of tinnitus ringing all the time- and TV or music noise is how I must calm the din just to get to sleep

That said I think I still hear music well enough to enjoy it and good sound systems help me hear the subtle stuff that is always there like finger drag on the guitar with some musicians

Roddie... yes sir I get it and the 1200 watt Carver amp was sort of tongue in cheek

My home theater is custom built for me. I had a Canadian company Fluance, build the speakers to my specs to efficiently use the room shape and my Denon AV processor...set up 7.1 ....with a small 10" Polk Audio sub hidden in the room

http://www.fluance.com/about/

This shop Logitech system is just fime 90% of the time...but some days a song I really love loud has me yearning for MORE POWER

I never had a Carver Amp but do personally know Bob Carver...who by the way still flies Combat in the Pacific North West at 80+ years old and does quite well at the contests..

Many decades ago I had a Sansui 90 90 DB quad amp and the fore mentioned JBL Studio 100 monitors and GIANT Sansui 1500 speakers featuring 15 inch woofers all in my 9x13 barracks room...the First sergeant hated me...cinder walls and acoustics of a parking garage...Wish I still had the Kenwood direct drive turntable with chassis carved from solid block of granite

Any way I digress...I may just cobble together one of my son's cast off 600 watt car amps and a garage sale set of larger speakers for the Crank it up moments....should not be too hard to fill this 16 x 24 Barn with TOO loud ...on the cheap....grin

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Post  GallopingGhostler on Sun Oct 09, 2016 5:33 am

Neat stuff, closest I came to Leslie was our 1970 Kimball home organ. It had a mechanical Leslie unit that sounded nice, but was not as sophisticated sounding as the Hammond. By then, it was all transistorised, had a primitive band-in-a-box. You held the chords on the left hand and foot base pedal, it supplied the beat through that using its built in analogue computer.

Following is the latest on my bari sax doing jazz in my living room.

Google Docs Video: George on Bari "All the Things You Are"
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Post  roddie on Sun Oct 09, 2016 1:11 pm

GallopingGhostler wrote:Neat stuff, closest I came to Leslie was our 1970 Kimball home organ. It had a mechanical Leslie unit that sounded nice, but was not as sophisticated sounding as the Hammond. By then, it was all transistorised, had a primitive band-in-a-box. You held the chords on the left hand and foot base pedal, it supplied the beat through that using its built in analogue computer.


George, I had to comment on this post! Around that same time (1970..) our family bought a Kimball "Swinger 1000" that looked exactly like this one in the photo below..

if I had an extra $650.00 Kimbal10

It too had a mechanical "Tremolo" speaker built into I believe the R/H side of the cabinet. It also had a knee-pedal/arm for applying vibrato and a couple other effects. Kimball was in competition at the time with "Thomas". The Hammonds, Lowreys and Wurlitzers were more expensive/high-end instruments.
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Post  dckrsn on Sun Oct 09, 2016 1:52 pm

I had a friend back in the late 60's-early 70's who used one of these with a Bassman head and a Vox organ.
It was no 122/147, but interesting.
if I had an extra $650.00 Leslie10
if I had an extra $650.00 Leslie11
If I remember correctly, the rotor was made from rigid foam.
Bob
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Post  rsv1cox on Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:36 pm

A good deal less than $650, but I have debated about the wisdom of buying this old radio or one like it and restoring it to original condition.

http://winchester.craigslist.org/atd/5775239492.html

if I had an extra $650.00 Philco10

I have fond memories of my Grandparents back in the forties sitting around the console radio listening to Amos and Andy etc., Gramps smoking his pipe and Grams doing her crocheting (look it up if your younger than fifty).

Bob
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Post  GallopingGhostler on Sun Oct 09, 2016 3:46 pm

Bob, it is up to you whether the old radio is worth rehabilitating or not. It's in the eyes of the beholder, not many these days have appreciation for the older stuff except those familiar (IYKWIM). I still remember my parent's 1950's Sears Silvertone 5 octal tube set AM table radio. Smoking Beer Cheers

roddie wrote:George, I had to comment on this post! Around that same time (1970..) our family bought a Kimball "Swinger 1000" that looked exactly like this one in the photo below..

if I had an extra $650.00 Kimbal10

It too had a mechanical "Tremolo" speaker built into I believe the R/H side of the cabinet. It also had a knee-pedal/arm for applying vibrato and a couple other effects. Kimball was in competition at the time with "Thomas". The Hammonds, Lowreys and Wurlitzers were more expensive/high-end instruments.

Roddie, thanks for posting, I haven't seen that for a while, over 30 years.  sunny

The tremolo unit was a circular disk mounted to a motor shaft in line of the speaker with a wooden enclosure. It was real wood, must be the days before particle board.

I don't remember the model number, but what you show in the photo looked just like ours (my parent's). Then, we didn't have Casio or Yamaha musical keyboards in home console cases. Yes, they were home entertainment as they were family affordable. Heathkit also had the Seth Thomas (another competitor) organs as kits. For those handy with a soldering iron and could read schematics, was a cheaper way to go. Actually Heath carried really nice ones, not the bottom end.

I hope this isn't too off topic. Speaking of older technology, this is newer but ancient by today's midi standards, my 1999 GeneralMusic WK2AR HD hard disk Midi Arranger. It is a band in a box. Connected to a midi keyboard as controller, I can control it's loops on the fly by holding chords down with the left hand, or record and create a midi backing track. I don't know the cost 17 years ago, but think it was at least $2k, may be $3k because of the HD. (Non-HD model was cheaper. I had it's downgraded sibling of their WK2 pro model keyboard, the home entertainment PK7 with floppy only for $850 then. It was heads up above Casio and the cheaper Yamaha's.) I picked up the WK2AR HD used in good condition on E-Bay several years ago for under $300.
if I had an extra $650.00 2016-010

4.8V 280mAH NiMh backup battery failed, so I replaced it with a 330mAH one from E-Bay.
if I had an extra $650.00 2016-011
if I had an extra $650.00 2016-012

The old internal 500MB PATA laptop HD was noisy, typical for such older technology back then. (I had an old Dell 30 MHz 386SX laptop with 20 MB HD, it's disk was noisy, too.) It provided 230 or so 1.4 MB floppy-like partitions. I upgraded the hard disk to a compact flash card and PATA-to-CF adapter, creating a solid state disk replacement with about 3 times the capacity. That's how one transferred data to the hard disk, one floppy at a time, cumbersome and primitive by today's standards.
if I had an extra $650.00 2016-013
if I had an extra $650.00 2016-014

Since floppies are no longer available (no more manufacturing), I replaced the floppy drive with a floppy emulator unit that uses a thumb drive partitioned as 100 floppies.
if I had an extra $650.00 2016-016
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Here's a demonstration of this band in a box, me doing Hillsong's Hosanna during a private rehearsal at Salvation Army Clovis NM Corps.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7T9-FMCHtgJbXRTUFFiQWNxbzA Leaves
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Post  fredvon4 on Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:44 am

Bob RE restoring some old radio

I have seen quite a few very well done restorations on the great old radios but the item I did was not a radio...*more on that in a second

The real interesting fact about the old radios is the great looking hand crafted(?) cabinetry and wood selections...then you research, to find they were usually mass produced for a company like Sears and the wood work and finish is even MORE impressive IMO

When the hell did WE loose true craftsmanship, even with mass produced products?

If you do decide to do this, I suggest only looking for the complete cabinet and radio chassis focusing on the correct knobs and ignore the "condition" of the interior radio. Deliberately look for a exterior cabinet that is not deeply gouged or has small missing sections of any veneer.

Another major importance is the front "dial indicator"....try to find one that is not badly deteriorated ---as re-doing the dial face is a royal pain to copy EXACTLY--- and the few reproducers have a very limited selection at horrendous prices

While a full blown restoration INCLUDING completely restoring the radio chassis is possible, the effort is wasted IMO.... using a newer speaker, simple transistor Radio chassis...MOST all the older stuff was AM only... and being crafty to use the original Knobs to make it all work is fairly easy and EXPONENTIALLY less expensive

* My wife inherited her grand mothers 1930s "White" treadle sewing machine. The major problem was the cast iron leg parts were very dirty and rusty... not too many cabinet blemishes and luckily NO veneers, all solid wood. The Machine itself was in very nice condition and the decals were not badly deteriorated so I left them original with a careful cleaning.

Found a period correct leather drive belt. Bead blasted all the cast iron leg and treadle assy parts and repainted with Rustoleum back to glossy black... cabinet was easy to strip to bare wood, minor repairs and then several days of Danish Oil finish ...original finis was Shellac

She tells me it looks exactly as she remembers from her child hood visiting grandma

I say go for it! Your attention to detail work on the various engine restores, and resurrecting old models, tells me you have the patience and skills to do a GRAND Old job....grin

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