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Cox Engine of The Month
November-2017
MauricioB's

"Cox Tee Dee .010"



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Interest in a 2017 Tach Race?

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Interest in a 2017 Tach Race?

Post  Oldenginerod on Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:51 am

Hi. Decided to start a new thread with this.
Here's what I posted previously.

"Hey, I just noticed the title under the old Tach Race picture in the left margin. Is this being considered? If so, great, but can I suggest that we try to limit the number of classes this time to reduce the phenomenal work load that Kim had to face last time. It may be time for someone else to give it a shot??
And since the RPM figures were so high (dangerously high for a reedy, I think) last time, can we maybe look at going back to a Cox prop rather than one of them dinky little APCs, to try to keep a lid on things a little?

Anyways, I might be up for another shot at it if the interest is there. No pressure.

Rod."
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how bout a TD tack race?

Post  VUgearhead on Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:40 am

the tack races have focused mostly on reedies up to now. Why not do a TD tack race this year? Only 4 or 5 categories for that one (.010, .020, .049, .09, .15?).
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Re: Interest in a 2017 Tach Race?

Post  Oldenginerod on Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:28 am

Last Tach Race had a Tee Dee class (.049/.051) and an .020 Unlimited class, allowing Tee Dees I assume.
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Re: Interest in a 2017 Tach Race?

Post  Oldenginerod on Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:48 am

Any thoughts on this? Everyone is suspiciously quiet. I only posted the question because of the question on the Tach Race image to the left. Someone must have posted it Huh...
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Is This a Test ...

Post  getback on Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:39 am

I am In ! Rod i don't know but as U see the icon only takes you to the last Tach Races (((((((( I think the rules should bee between the runner and the conductor of rules lol! Babe Bee .049 Babe Bee .049 Babe Bee .049
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Re: Interest in a 2017 Tach Race?

Post  KariFS on Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:49 am

I will most likely not participate this year or next because of the postage fees but I have an idea:

To make life easier for the person who does the competition runs, how about "rotating" the different classes? For example, first year it would be "tanked" .049's, then horseshoe product engines, third year Tee Dees and Medallions and so on. This way there would only be only one setup needed for running the engines. Maybe there would be more participants per class this way? Each year there could be "stock" and "unlimited" classes if desired, or maybe even just one class with some limits as to what parts can be used.

Just my Two Cents
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Re: Interest in a 2017 Tach Race?

Post  Oldenginerod on Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:20 am

So, do we consider the idea "dead in the water?" Certainly not a lot of interest here.
As Kari mentioned, postage is getting pretty steep so I may also give it a miss, but, hey, I've said that before. Laughing
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Re: Interest in a 2017 Tach Race?

Post  Jason_WI on Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:40 pm

It is a big ordeal setting this up and setting aside all day or weekend to try to start wildly timed/over compressed engines. Rules need to change where if you cannot get an engine started in 1 minute its disqualified. This would eliminate the headache the race conductor would have to deal with. Contestants would make sure their engine started in a timely manner meaning timing and compression is within a reasonable range. Probably make for some tight races that way.

Also need to limit to just reedy mouse engines (stock and unlimited) and backplate engines (stock and unlimited). No novice class. this limits the number of entries so the race can be performed in an afternoon.
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Re: Interest in a 2017 Tach Race?

Post  dckrsn on Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:15 pm

Jason_WI wrote:It is a big ordeal setting this up and setting aside all day or weekend to try to start wildly timed/over compressed engines. Rules need to change where if you cannot get an engine started in 1 minute its disqualified. This would eliminate the headache the race conductor would have to deal with. Contestants would make sure their engine started in a timely manner meaning timing and compression is within a reasonable range. Probably make for some tight races that way.

Also need to limit to just reedy mouse engines (stock and unlimited) and backplate engines (stock and unlimited). No novice class. this limits the number of entries so the race can be performed in an afternoon.
Good ideas there Jason, considering how many entrants there might be.
BTW, Welcome back!!
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Re: Interest in a 2017 Tach Race?

Post  roddie on Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:17 pm

Here's a different twist on a tach-race. A CD having an audio-tach.. could theoretically take rpm-readings from contestants who post vids of their engine-run. That way, no one needs to chance shipping their little mill back and forth (or the cost..). It would need to be on the honor-system though.. as far as fuel/prop restrictions.. etc.

I don't know how accurate these audio-tachs are.. or how fine a resolution they'll read. Has anyone ever compared their readings with another's for accuracy? I don't personally have one. Is it a cell-phone app?
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Re: Interest in a 2017 Tach Race?

Post  pkrankow on Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:23 pm

People with non-standard fuel systems (ie anything other than suction) must send the fuel system, and a spare if appropriate, and starting instructions with pictures if appropriate.

Video entries, if permitted, must show a digital tach, and also show verifying the tach against a light on standard AC house current.

Phil
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Re: Interest in a 2017 Tach Race?

Post  Admin on Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:28 pm

Another option could be to send around a tachometer (with clear markings so we know it's the same tach) and each participant can shoot and upload a video of their engine running with the tach in view.

Each person knows how to start their own engine best. A panel of judges can decide whether each run was fair, no silly business going on to make theirs appear faster, they could also factor how well it ran, how long it ran...

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Re: Interest in a 2017 Tach Race?

Post  Cribbs74 on Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:50 pm

I am up for a full on old school tach race. I will gladly host the event. It's better to have the engine in front of you than online. I could probably talk Kim into helping me. He's a travelling fool these days... Very Happy
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Re: Interest in a 2017 Tach Race?

Post  pkrankow on Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:32 pm

I have 2 slightly modified horseshoe engines I might be interested in having run.

Phil
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Re: Interest in a 2017 Tach Race?

Post  Oldenginerod on Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:35 pm

Cribbs74 wrote:I am up for a full on old school tach race. I will gladly host the event. It's better to have the engine in front of you than online. I could probably talk Kim into helping me. He's a travelling fool these days... Very Happy

Well that's what I wanted to hear I Love This Forum!
Well done Ron for putting your hand up.  While the idea of a proxy-tach race, similar to the Reed Speed comp, had crossed my mind, there's nothing as equalizing as using the same fuel, same prop, same mount, same operator, same tach and the same weather conditions.  If you run the race in the middle of a northern hemisphere winter, then mine is being run in the middle of an Aussie summer.

I agree with others that the whole thing needs to be rationalized somehow.  Limiting the classes will make people do a little more testing & tuning.  I'm not big on radical modifications.  Last time my winning mouse was just bolted together from standard off-the-shelf parts.  I was lucky they all worked together.   Some have more knowledge, some less, some more money, some less.  Keep it simple, keep it fair, keep it fun.   To coin a well used Aussie phrase, "We're not playing for sheep stations".  (A "station" is a ranch/huge farm)

Heck, now I'm starting to think I might have to compete again if it goes ahead.  
Depends on whether Trump closes the borders to Cox engine transfers.  lol!

Rod.
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Re: Interest in a 2017 Tach Race?

Post  Mark Boesen on Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:18 pm

Glad to hear there's some interest in this as it's always been a lot of fun, but a lot of work for the 'CD' running and taching all those engines and getting them shipped back, etc.

-I'd like to see merging the 'Unlimited' class with the Mouse class, as they seem to turn about the same RPM.
-Run it the weekend before the Super Bowl?
-Creating a new event, 'Power' class, where the idea is to build a reedie that can swing a really, really big prop, say a 9"x4" Top Flite, top RPM wins.
-Possibly limit the event to three classes, with each contestant picking two and/or limit it to members only.
-All non tanked engines engines will run same non-pressurized fuel system, same fuel for all engines.
-Have a 2 minute clock to get engines started and needled.
- This would be a 'CD' judgement call, that over compressed engines that surge up and down and not hold RPM would be DQ, must hold hold steady RPM for at least 5 sec. for RPM to be recorded.
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Re: Interest in a 2017 Tach Race?

Post  RknRusty on Fri Nov 11, 2016 3:37 am

If we have the Tach Race, I will send an engine. Thanks, Ron. And thanks to everyone rethinking the format.
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Re: Interest in a 2017 Tach Race?

Post  JPvelo on Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:17 am

You can count me in. May I suggest we use an APC 4.75x4? It's what Paul G. refers to as his "prop of reference" in the mouse engine article.

Jim
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Re: Interest in a 2017 Tach Race?

Post  dckrsn on Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:29 pm

What a guy! Thanks for stepping up Ron.+ Hand Shake
Bob
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Re: Interest in a 2017 Tach Race?

Post  Cribbs74 on Fri Nov 11, 2016 5:34 pm

I'll still have to ask Mark B. As it's his race. If he's good with it then all is well.
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Re: Interest in a 2017 Tach Race?

Post  roddie on Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:18 pm

Mark Boesen wrote:Glad to hear there's some interest in this as it's always been a lot of fun, but a lot of work for the 'CD' running and taching all those engines and getting them shipped back, etc.

-Creating a new event, 'Power' class, where the idea is to build a reedie that can swing a really, really big prop, say a 9"x4" Top Flite, top RPM wins.

Ron's stepping-up big-time. IDK how many years Kim has done the honors.. but I know he did them last year. That's when I first took an interest in the event. Kim's a great writer! I'm always captivated when I read his posts.. regardless of the content.  I just learned with Ron's post; that this was originally Mark's contest.

Mark, I messed around with larger-diameter props on the "Bee's".. after I built a little biplane. It was a self-designed and became a "utility" model. I ran woodies.. in 7" and 8" diameters. On my engine (a bone-stock Babe-Bee) I was able to attain 2-stroke operation on the ground, with an 8" x 3" J-Zinger wood-prop. Two standard alloy tubing-sleeves are all that's required to bush the prop-hub for the 1/8" (5-40) prop-screw. It's kind of cool actually. Most of us relate to the sound of a Cox .049 reed-valve engine as running up in the 14k+ rpm range when leaned-out.. but "take it from a Musician"; the sound of a Cox .049 engine 2-stroking at a much-reduced rpm is pleasing to the ear. To me; it approaches a scale-like exhaust-note. Needling into a 2-stroke isn't difficult.. but there's much less of a window between rich and lean fuel/air-mixture My experience was with both; a stock Babe Bee/5cc tanked-engine/stock needle-seal...... and the other; with a Horseshoe backplate/wedge-tank.. with stock coarse-thread NVA's. Cool element for flying.. but I like the idea for static engine-testing-criteria.

*dis-claimer.. lugging the engine put's stress on the rods' ball/socket-joint. Check the fit frequently if running a heavier-load than optimal.
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Re: Interest in a 2017 Tach Race?

Post  Mark Boesen on Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:36 pm

Many years ago i read the engine test review of the Space Bug Jr. from a model airplane mag. They mentioned even running the engine on a 10x6 top flite 'paddle blade' type prop and always thought that was kinda cool, lol, much like a tractor pull. It would make for a totally different parameters of set up, but it would be a competition to build the highest revving Babe Bee possible.

Ron, i'd be honored to have you be the Contest Director for the 2016 Tach Race!
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Re: Interest in a 2017 Tach Race?

Post  getback on Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:22 am

Sounds like its time to start your engines Babe Bee .049 Babe Bee .049 Small Cox Logo Small Cox Logo Eyebrows Thanks To Ron Cribbs ! Thumbs Up
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Re: Interest in a 2017 Tach Race?

Post  Cribbs74 on Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:42 pm

We are talking 2017 right?
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Re: Interest in a 2017 Tach Race?

Post  Mark Boesen on Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:55 pm

Oops, January...would be 2017, sorry!
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Re: Interest in a 2017 Tach Race?

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