What the Heck is 'Trolling'?

Thread Bud Becker has Over 63 Engines for Sale:

ghostler, Sun May-03-15 01:49 AM wrote:With permission of Pat Johnson, I thought this to be of mutual benefit for all and thus am forwarding this. It may be an opportunity for you to pick up that engine you've always wanted and also help out Bud Becker:

Pat Johnston wrote:This is a list containing model engines which Bud Becker is willing to sell. Bud can be reached at (208) ***-****. I’ve seen these engines. Many are NIB and most all are in excellent condition. Bud is looking for fair prices and is more than happy to see engines go to homes where they will be treasured and hopefully used. Please don’t embarrass yourself when offering a price. Pat Johnston

1. Cox TD 010
2. Cox TD 020
3. Cox 049 RR1
[....]
61. O&R engine parts?
62. OS VR 65 Disk (2)
63. OS VR 65 Drum Valve!!!

[....]

Pat Johnston wrote:I got the list directly from Bud. He didn't have prices on the list, but is more than happy to listen to reasonable offers. Bud is 83 years old and is not computer oriented. He is not out to gouge anyone on the prices, just is looking for something reasonable and is most interested in people having fun with a new engine. Some really interesting ones on the list, such as the OS65 Drum Valve speed engine or the Como 40 Schneurle. I used the Como 40 for Q500 racing in the early 80's and was not aware that they even had a schneurle ported engine. I fondled the G21/35 and it is a cool early 70's combat motor. It may need bearings or just have them cleaned up. Either way, there are a lot of unusual motors here to look at. Sorry, no prices, just give Bud a shout. Pat Johnston, Skunk Works

ghostler wrote:Pat, I concur wholeheartedly. I think it is much better to deal with a fellow CL flier directly, than to deal with an auction house such as E-Bay. There are no seller fees and frankly I think those interested will be pleasantly surprised if they ask.

a*****3 wrote:With all due respect, Pat and George, you're missing the point. This forum has existed for many years, and the forum host makes the rules - not you. Many of us have used this forum for several years, complying with the rules. If that's too much to ask of you, I would respectfully request that you post elsewhere. I personally have been embarrassed making "reasonable offers". One man's junk is another man's treasure ... d*****s

a*****3 wrote:PS: Just spoke with Bud. His words: "I'm not destitute; I'll bury them in the back yard before I'll give 'em away". He wouldn't even name his price on several, saying "I'll have to study that." Sounds like eBay prices to me, and I've sold hundreds and hundreds of engines there over the past 15 years! d*****s

Posted by r*****l wrote:Somewhere in Utah a cantankerous old guy is trudging towards his backyard, shovel in hand.

ghostler wrote:

a*****3 wrote:With all due respect, Pat and George, you're missing the point. This forum has existed for many years, and the forum host makes the rules - not you. Many of us have used this forum for several years, complying with the rules. If that's too much to ask of you, I would respectfully request that you post elsewhere. I personally have been embarrassed making "reasonable offers". One man's junk is another man's treasure ... d*****s

For someone posting "with all due respect", I don't know what created this provocative response. For one, neither Pat nor I are setting any form of rules. We are simply passing on to the CL community for sale items by an elderly man and CL flier getting closer to the end of his useful life who desires to reduce his belongings and wants to see these engines get a good home to those who will appreciate them.

I looked through Stuka Stunt FAQ's and the only guidance I see for posting Classifieds is List Items for sale or wanted. Please limit these to control line related items only. According to Bud, these are CL/FF engines, so we complied with that. So, if there are any rules I am unaware of them.

a*****3 wrote:PS: Just spoke with Bud. His words: "I'm not destitute; I'll bury them in the back yard before I'll give 'em away". He wouldn't even name his price on several, saying "I'll have to study that." Sounds like eBay prices to me, and I've sold hundreds and hundreds of engines there over the past 15 years! d*****s

I just called Bud and had a pleasant conversation with him, this was my first contact with him. Part of the reason why he didn't have pricing assigned is because he really didn't know what should be an asking price. Regarding giving things away, for NOS in the box engines, well yes, who would just give them away? Bud is not computer literate. He doesn't have access to a computer, spends no time on the Internet, and what he knows of pricing is a bit back when he was more active into building and flying.

He's already gotten quite a few calls, since I posted this list to not only this forum but to Stunt Hangar and Cox Engine Forums. He has agreed on offers, is waiting for buyers to send him checks before he ships them out. I will try and help him out every couple days by finding out what engines are left and update the list. I discussed with Bud your comments here. I mentioned your name d*****s, and he doesn't recall speaking to anyone with your name, unless you called anonymously.

So far, he told me that those who called him were courteous and as far as he knew there were no unpleasant or negative discussions. He told me although it is possible that he might have said that, he doesn't recall that and was dismayed that someone would be unhappy with his response. Given your tone of voice here d*****s, I don't know of how many people would respond to you.

If you think you have an axe to grind, in (Items for Sale) you received this reply:

g*****r wrote:RE: Plans Closeout, Part II: I have e-mailed you twice re postage and a question on one of the plans. To date, no reply. g*****r, AMA *****

Did you answer g*****r? I don't know if you realize it, but your attitude reflects on your products and services. After receiving these two tactless responses from you plus this one from Guy, I would have great difficulty to ever consider buying anything from you. I say this not to deter others, but I don't think you realize that what you are doing is actually hurting yourself more than it is hurting us or the CL community.

a*****3 wrote:Well George, what a mouthful. You certainly seem to have a lot of free time to post and analyze the business prowess of others. I told Bud who I am and where I'm located - and when my phone bill arrives, I'll post the long-distance call segment here so we can determine whose "memory" is working when needed. Or convenient. Will that suffice George, or must we record our calls to avoid implications that we're dishonest? You write: "Part of the reason why he didn't have pricing assigned is because he really didn't know what should be an asking price. Regarding giving things away, for NOS in the box engines, well yes, who would just give them away? Bud is not computer literate. He doesn't have access to a computer, spends no time on the Internet, and what he knows of pricing is a bit back when he was more active into building and flying."

Your "logic" totally escapes me - how then does he determine whether or not to accept an offer? And please, don't stoop so low as to insult our intelligence by suggesting we expect him to give things away. I very clearly asked him about several specific engines I was interested in, and he very clearly answered in each and every instance, "I'll have to study that". If he wants to entertain offers and wait until he hears one that sounds right, how is that much different than eBay?

Regarding the "rules" here: my bad! I've posted and responded to listings here for 14 years. This is the first day I've not found the rule stating that prices must be posted. I think it's fair to say our host was a real bear about that rule, and have no idea when it disappeared. Three other individuals made the same mistake before me.

Incidentally George, the "highplainsthumper" moniker sounds familiar - did you sell a stash of control line kits on eBay some years back, possibly while located in Idaho? d*****s

ghostler wrote:

a*****3 wrote:Well George, what a mouthful. You certainly seem to have a lot of free time to post and analyze the business prowess of others.

1) Past 2 years I posted 186 messages on Stuka Stunt since joining in June 2013, which works out to an average of a message every 4 days.

2) I could care less about your business prowess.

a*****3 wrote:I told Bud who I am and where I'm located - and when my phone bill arrives, I'll post the long-distance call segment here so we can determine whose "memory" is working when needed. Or convenient. Will that suffice George, or must we record our calls to avoid implications that we're dishonest?

3) I only stated my observations.

a*****3 wrote:You write: "Part of the reason why he didn't have pricing assigned is because he really didn't know what should be an asking price. Regarding giving things away, for NOS in the box engines, well yes, who would just give them away? Bud is not computer literate. He doesn't have access to a computer, spends no time on the Internet, and what he knows of pricing is a bit back when he was more active into building and flying."

Your "logic" totally escapes me - how then does he determine whether or not to accept an offer? And please, don't stoop so low as to insult our intelligence by suggesting we expect him to give things away. I very clearly asked him about several specific engines I was interested in, and he very clearly answered in each and every instance, "I'll have to study that".

4) Sometimes people don't know what they want, but they certainly know what they don't want. He's already accepted offers, so it must be working for him. If he wants to entertain offers and wait until he hears one that sounds right, how is that much different than eBay?

5) I seemed to have hit a sensitive nerve when I mentioned previously about dealing with a modeler directly instead of E-Bay. What is your hang up with an alternate to E-Bay?

a*****3 wrote:Regarding the "rules" here: my bad! I've posted and responded to listings here for 14 years. This is the first day I've not found the rule stating that prices must be posted. I think it's fair to say our host was a real bear about that rule, and have no idea when it disappeared. Three other individuals made the same mistake before me.

6) Noted.

a*****3 wrote:Incidentally George, the "highplainsthumper" moniker sounds familiar - did you sell a stash of control line kits on eBay some years back, possibly while located in Idaho? d*****s

7) I have never sold on E-Bay. I have never lived in or visited Idaho. I live in the High Plains of New Mexico bordering Texas Panhandle and used to ride a large single cylinder 650 cc engine motorcycle AKA a Thumper.

a*****3 wrote:Color it any way you like George, you clearly implied that I called anonymously - or not at all. I asked about the G.20-.15 diesel; Bud stated he was holding it for an offer of $100. The K&B .35 Green Head is used, but in good condition, with a nice green head. When asked how much he wanted for it - I truly don't want to offend anyone with an offer - the answer was a clear "I'll have to study that". The G.15 is a front intake with the red venturi, new in box. When asked about the price, Bud gave the same answer. I asked about others, with the exact same result and then the "I'll bury them in my back yard before I'll give 'em away." Now, who's playing the "bad memory" game? When did I ask him to give anything away? Bud clearly wanted to entertain offers - which is better than eBay in many ways, because you're not committed to sell at all. If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck ...

I spent more than 7 hours with 2 elderly modeler friends (both in their 80s) yesterday George, one of whom can hardly walk and carries an oxygen bottle with him to feed the stream he breathes. I paid far more than the value of a few things I bought from him, offered to rent a trailer and cart his remaining stash of airplanes & supplies to a swap meet next Saturday, and to help he and his wife advertise a garage sale with large clubs in this area if they choose to go that route. That's hardly looking to steal from a fellow modeler.

Maybe you haven't noticed: 5 of us responded to you and Pat's listing here; 4 of us questioned the lack of prices.

If you truly want to be helpful to this man and the modeling community, perhaps you and Pat can find the time to help him set fair prices. Just as I did with both friends yesterday. But I guess that wouldn't give you the visibility you seem to be seeking ... d*****s