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What's that big box by the back door... Or... The P-40 assy. is DONE.

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What's that big box by the back door... Or... The P-40 assy. is DONE.

Post  RknRusty on Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:48 pm

I talked to a buddy of mine the other day, Roger, from West Virginia, just catching up and chatting. He's missed the last couple of contests due to life's curveballs, we are all familiar with that. A day later I got a text from him saying I could expect a package from Brodak that I didn't order. So I thanked him and started checking the mail over the next few days hoping some cool trinket would be in the box. Monday came, surely it would be there after the weekend... nah. I was in the carport piddling with Big Red, my aircraft carrier and noticed a giant cardboard box propped against the wall. Whoa, I never heard the doorbell ring. Sure enough it was from Brodak. The last time I got a box that size it was my Oriental ARF... good grief, the guy sent me an ARF! I wonder what kind it is. Another Cardinal, a Smoothie, pages of the Brodak catalog flipping in my mind. I toted it out to the shop and swung the blade of my folding razor knife out and went to work. Layer after layer came off like a gigantic cardboard Russian matryoshka doll, geez it sure was packed in there. Finally, Tahdaaah, A P-40 Flying Tiger.

These are probably the best built and best flying competition ARFs John Brodak sells. I know that because Stunthangar told me so. And Wayne has two, one electric he built and another gasser that is the prototype Bob Zambelli built while he first developed it for Brodak and later gave to Wayne. It's also the same plane Mike Londke has used to paste me with in the last two contests at Huntersville.

I tried putting it aside until I got rolling on the Cardinal kit, but every time I walk into the shop I gravitate straight to the P-40. It looks like a real piece of cake to put together, much much higher quality than my Oriental ARF of 3 years ago. This plane needs no upgrading of the bellcrank and leadouts or anything else I can see except maybe CF control rods. It all fits together like a glove, straight and true. The Oriental was not even close.

So now I have two planes occupying my mind and I've started working on both at the same time. I hope my feeble thought processes can manage it. I have two good engines, an LA.46 for the Cardinal and an FP.40 for the P-40. I hope that's enough power for it. If not I'll run down another LA. I already have all the other hardware to finish it without having to order much besides threaded inserts and spare props.

I went through a time last winter when I dreaded going to work in the shop, but now I've got the full-on building bug. So without further blather, here' are the pics:







By the way, a question.
The booklet always says to position the engine first, but it seems like that should be last for balancing purposes. So last it will be. I'll be using a bar clamp because this engine has a corner of the mounting tab broken off. That also gives a little bit of adjustment room. My question is how much gap do you usually allow between the nose and spinner backplate? An 8th of an inch seems about right. It's what I usually do, just that I have never asked any opinions on that.
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Re: What's that big box by the back door... Or... The P-40 assy. is DONE.

Post  Kim on Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:09 am

Good deal Rusty...it'll be great to see the Warhawk fly!
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Re: What's that big box by the back door... Or... The P-40 assy. is DONE.

Post  Marleysky on Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:31 am

That is one NICE looking ARF! You are one lucky Dog, to get a nice WarDog!!

Or, should it be a lucky hawk to get a warhawk? Huh...

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Re: What's that big box by the back door... Or... The P-40 assy. is DONE.

Post  fredvon4 on Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:08 am

Cool friend as that is one of the fairly pricey Brodak ARFs

I got the Gray version from Randy Smith back a few months and have been procrastinating a lot on assembly

Too many projects too little time

I had seriously considered adding the dihedral as described by one of the SH guys but with my flying skills decided to not go to the trouble...most guys say it flys great just as built/designed

NOTE#1 for your concern on the engine...mine will also get a FP 40... compare the FP 40 weight with muffler to the Brodak 40 with muffler ( the designed for engine) I have not done this yet--- but I suspect the FP 40 is a fair bit heavier than the B-40 ---so may need to be set as far back as practical to reduce the tail weight need


On the other hand a lot of SH guys just added a tail weight box or played with Tail wheels to balance for LA 46s or Stalker 51 engines (heavy for this bird)  I have not weighed mine yet but the whole shebang out of all the packaging but still in the bottom of the box feels a LOT lighter than my TF Nobler ARF in same condition right now. What I think is this is a big fat long wing and they built it pretty danged lite so I think it will handle 2 to 3 oz of ass weight just fine

NOTE#2  on mine the front lead out was shoved back into the wing for packaging and this caused the BC Lead Out end loop to rotate and be forced to slip behind the BC front arm..... Took me a bit to see inside why the 2 lead outs at the wing tip were very different lengths...grrrr
But with a long bamboo skewer I was able to sneak inside the wing through the push rod slit and slip the BC's front lead out back over and properly facing the wing tip again

like you, I will have to leave the BC push rod in place=== but from there back will get adjustable CF tube like you and I do normally...not a fan at all of soldered push rods

Mine looks to need about 10 hours of careful cleaning ( a lot of Tape glue residue on every piece) then all Ironed (a lot of wrinkles on mine especially all the flat wood) , then edges sealed

I like the look of the clear canopy* better than what you and I got--- but Brodak tells me they never did get them as repair parts....so I am fussing with adapting some other Profile Clear canopy

*Looks like back in 2006~7 this ARF had a plastic canopy--- can be seen on the box art

I am also sure I am NOT going to hinge the Rudder...WTF are they thinking...we all want the option of a ADJ or Rabe Rudder linkage?

I still need to search SH about the very flimsy Joiner wires for the flaps and Elevator...I suspect many guys bent up fatter Joiners and added tube bearings

And I have been waiting for a time when I need more from Brodak than just the suggested Tank...the only one they sell with the tabs already on the tank

On the other hand I have a long thin 4 Oz Hayes that will easily fit on the inboard side

Looking forward to YOUR ARF assy thread on the P-40B
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Re: What's that big box by the back door... Or... The P-40 assy. is DONE.

Post  badbill on Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:47 am

Hey Rusty,
                         You'll like the P-40 new version ARF, it's a good flying plane. I had probably 75 flights or more in mine when I sold it. It had a Brodak 40, superb engine. Couple of things I found in owning both that and the new version Ringmaster ARF that you'll want to take care of while building. First, the covering material sucks- it's just as bad as the old ones. It starts coming off after just a few flights. Maybe spray the seams or the whole thing with clear lusterkote. Secondly, the landing gear attachment in the P-40 is very, very weak. On mine, both vertical blocks came off and were floating around in the wing in short time. The blocks are also soft and wallow out easily. I re-glued the block, drilled out the vertical holes way bigger, and glued in carbon tubing for the vertical bend of the gear wire to fit in. The plane flies well and looks great in the air, you'll love it!
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Re: What's that big box by the back door... Or... The P-40 assy. is DONE.

Post  fredvon4 on Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:09 pm

Hey BB thanks for the heads up...I knew the covering thing but now will be sure to beefy the LG area

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Re: What's that big box by the back door... Or... The P-40 assy. is DONE.

Post  RknRusty on Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:57 pm

Hey, glad y'all approve of the P-40.
Bill, I'll take a look at the LG. Thanks for the heads up.

Fred, regarding your procrastination, It's yet to be proven by me, but this looks like a speed build. And you know how slow I am, but I'm hoping to surprise myself and y'all too in getting this one finished fast. The Cardinal is calling.

It does need flat hinges instead of the supplied CA junk. The flap and elevator couplers are thin but stiff. I'm just going to use them. I'm curious if Mike will chime in on things like that he might have changed on his.

The FP will have a light tongue muffler. Ass weight is not a problem like nose-weight can be.

The leadouts are very good looking, not wrapped, of course, but the heavy wire and triple-pass crimp looks neat and appears it was done with a proper tool. I have a piece of tiny CF tube that I will sleeve the skinny short pushrod with. It's stiff metal and I'm sure it would be fine without sleeving, but I have the small CF so I'll do it.

Lol, the Rabe rudder is the first thing I thought when I saw this one. But not needed with a 10.5" - 11" prop. Once I get it all set up I want to experiment with a 3 blade prop just for coolness. My prop for an FP.40 is an APC 10.5" x 4.5". Philly Flyers style.

I have all kinds of tanks, not a problem

Clear tape on all seams, SOP for an ARF.

I really prefer the clear canopy too, oh well. One of my black "window" patches refuses to stick and stay already.

Mine is clean and mostly tight. I wouldn't want the Chinese shrinking our 'cote all the way anyway. We need to inspect for wing warps first so it can be adjusted on the final tightening. Only a little tape glue is on mine, and one swipe with acetone will clean it off.

So, I'm off to the shop now. If it's ready to fly Saturday, I'll let y'all know.








lol!

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Re: What's that big box by the back door... Or... The P-40 assy. is DONE.

Post  badbill on Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:13 pm

Rusty, Which kind of clear tape is fuelproof?
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Re: What's that big box by the back door... Or... The P-40 assy. is DONE.

Post  RknRusty on Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:25 pm

Bill,
3M clear 2" box packing tape has worked for me on the long leading edges. And regular 1/2" Scotch tape on the smaller TE, hinge-line seals, rudders, and elevators. I've had an occasional corner peel that I trim off but never just letting go completely. For attaching trim tabs, I use regular frosty looking Scotch tape and it stays out on the wing where nothing really gets on it. The biggest mistake I made was worrying about the trim tab tape at a contest, removing it, and then couldn't get new tape to stick.

I clean with acetone before applying it. I've only ever owned 2 new ARFS, an Oriental and a Combat Gladiator, and the tape is pretty permanent on them. The rest have been greasy old beaters and after cleaning it still worked okay with occasional attention. Press it on with a credit card or a firm squeegee.

All the planes I build have painted fuselages, and empennages, never 'cote. On the ARF P-40 I'll likely use a strip of silver Monokote on the LE. I don't yet know about all the ins and outs on the fuse. Could be a pain in the ass no matter what I use. I hate 'coted fuselages and empennages.
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Re: What's that big box by the back door... Or... The P-40 assy. is DONE.

Post  roddie on Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:52 pm

Congratulations on the new P-40 Rusty! It's a VERY cool looking model.. and one of my first influences as a young boy. I'm glad that you're psyched to be back in the shop and building. I'm sure that you'll make it a GREAT stunter! Thumbs Up
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Re: What's that big box by the back door... Or... The P-40 assy. is DONE.

Post  getback on Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:44 am

Rusty it's good to hear there are still friends out there that really care and want to see another bee successful in the hobby >> i guess i am just trying to say the word giving is knot gone // one fine looking bird and is always interesting to hear about the changes or mods. that people do to make them fly perfect . Thank You for sharing your experiences here with us . Very Happy
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Re: What's that big box by the back door... Or... The P-40 assy. is DONE.

Post  badbill on Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:35 am

RknRusty wrote:Bill,
3M clear 2" box packing tape has worked for me on the long leading edges. And regular 1/2" Scotch tape on the smaller TE, hinge-line seals, rudders, and elevators. I've had an occasional corner peel that I trim off but never just letting go completely. For attaching trim tabs, I use regular frosty looking Scotch tape and it stays out on the wing where nothing really gets on it. The biggest mistake I made was worrying about the trim tab tape at a contest, removing it, and then couldn't get new tape to stick.

I clean with acetone before applying it. I've only ever owned 2 new ARFS, an Oriental and a Combat Gladiator, and the tape is pretty permanent on them. The rest have been greasy old beaters and after cleaning it still worked okay with occasional attention. Press it on with a credit card or a firm squeegee.

All the planes I build have painted fuselages, and empennages, never 'cote. On the ARF P-40 I'll likely use a strip of silver Monokote on the LE. I don't yet know about all the ins and outs on the fuse. Could be a pain in the ass no matter what I use. I hate 'coted fuselages and empennages.
Rusty

I have no problems with the planes that I build and cover with iron on- I do it all the time and it stays put great ( I think I have a few threads on here with builds, check 'em out )  On the P40, I'm afraid it's gonna be too much to tape. On the first flight the camouflage pieces started departing, later I lost all of the covering on the nose. If I did another one, I would clean it good and spray the whole thing with the flat clear lusterkote.
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Re: What's that big box by the back door... Or... The P-40 assy. is DONE.

Post  RknRusty on Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:28 am

Thanks, Eric, I'll keep you posted.

Bill, that's an idea, except maybe some clear dope would be a lot lighter. I have Lustrekote too, that would stick it down pretty good. That stuff is like spraying a shell on it. If it peels too bad I'll paint it. My old Cardinal ARF had its share of paint on it, it was peeling pretty bad by the time I inherited it. I won't care what it looks like for very long.

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Re: What's that big box by the back door... Or... The P-40 assy. is DONE.

Post  fredvon4 on Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:31 am

I agree, even doing a suggested brush on of polyU on all the edges, as suggested elsewhere, seems a bit too fiddly

I sure do hope the SV-11 I should get in next month or two comes with better covering overlap in the important places

Yet to be built, but the TF ARF Nobler had totally unacceptable LO and BC so I did probably a stupid thing, and got a complete Tom Morris BC and adjustable linkage set up of  for it... Stupid, in the sense that putting the expensive system in now requires I pay a lot more attention to detail with the finish and assy....on one of the poorer examples of a CL ARF there is

Each time I pull either of these ARFs out the list of too do things gets longer and longer..... so I make the list, and say screw it and go fly one of my non flapped planes

Any way Rusty and Bill sorry for the rant... I like the semi gloss Luster kote idea....too bad I need to order it from Tower cuz I don't really need anything else from them right now
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Re: What's that big box by the back door... Or... The P-40 assy. is DONE.

Post  badbill on Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:39 am

RknRusty wrote:Thanks, Eric, I'll keep you posted.

Bill, that's an idea, except maybe some clear dope would be a lot lighter. I have Lustrekote too, that would stick it down pretty good. That stuff is like spraying a shell on it. If it peels too bad I'll paint it. My old Cardinal ARF had its share of paint on it, it was peeling pretty bad by the time I inherited it. I won't care what it looks like for very long.

The thing is, whatever you spray it with has to stick to plastic. Dope won't, but the lustrekote is made for it. I would wipe it down with acetone, then use a scotch brite pad or fine steel wool on the whole thing before spraying. Try a test piece first. I really like lusterkote, never had better luck with any other paint.
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Re: What's that big box by the back door... Or... The P-40 assy. is DONE.

Post  Cribbs74 on Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:41 pm

Rusty,

Not sure how I missed this, all I can say is sometimes good things happen to those who deserve it most.

Rock on!

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Re: What's that big box by the back door... Or... The P-40 assy. is DONE.

Post  RknRusty on Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:47 am

Hey, Ron! Good to hear from you.
I was removing chinakote from the wing for assembly today, and was surprised to see a full 1/2" of overlap on the LE. Same on the edges of the flaps where I removed it for recessing the hinges. This ARF is done right. I'm doing nothing else fancy, just screwing and gluing. It might be flying in a surprisingly short time. Tomorrow I should get the flaps and wing installed. If I can keep at it in the hot shop, maybe I can get some work done Sunday too. Hoping anyway. I'm feeling pretty good now, so I better git it while the gittn's good. Looks like I've picked up another LA.46. Yet another generous CEF soul has contributed to my hobby.

Time for an I Love This Forum! smiley!
Okay, guys, I just wrapped up hosting a 3 hour video hangout on the Stunt Hangar 'Tube channel, so time to rack up some Zs.
Goodnight,
Rockin' Rusty

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Re: What's that big box by the back door... Or... The P-40 assy. is DONE.

Post  RknRusty on Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:06 am

Shop report for Saturday. Not quite as much as I'd hoped, but a respectable go at the P-40 Saturday. The nylon flap horn is supposed to be held in place by 3 wood screws too short to even reach the backplate, so I had to fiddle with 2-56 screws and nuts, and my crip fingers had a tough time with the tiny hardware. But the Dubro flat pin hinges are epoxied in, hardening now and will be ready to glue to the wing in the morning. The flap coupler is already installed

If I can glue them to the TE by lunchtime, the wing should be installed in short order with CA, and I'd like to finish the stab and elevator too. They are all hinged and ready for installation. I'm just going to use the CA hinges back there(my first ever), quick and easy. If I had a piece of 5/32 CF rod I could hook up the controls too. I really hate the thin pot-metal wire setup with 1/2A size control hardware that came with it, but I might just say what the hell and use it anyway. The length is adjusted with a soldering iron in the middle where two rods are grafted together with a solder coupler. But I have plenty of stuff in my control parts drawer that might couple up better, so we'll see what I come up with. I already dug it all out to fiddle with.

This is kinda fun, I've never had such an easy "build." Now that I have another LA.46, I don't have to fool with making a bar mount the FP.40 (broken tab corner) would have needed. I have 4-40 brass inserts for the engine to bolt up to. Got a couple of good fuel tanks to choose from too.

Rockin' and Rollin'. Hopefully, another good report tomorrow night. Can't work Monday night because I have to do my Monday video show. If y'all subscribe to the 'Tube channel "Stunt Hangar" you can watch and text chat. If you're logged into Google and enable the Hangouts app(top right menu on the Google home page), and have a webcam & Microphone, then you can click into the live chat with us. Or just a Mic, it's not required that we can see you, we'll just see your Google profile pic while your on live. I do a show every Monday and Friday at about 9:30 Eastern time. Sometimes as late as 9:45. I usually end it about 12:30 AM EDT.

I have a playlist on my 'Tube channel where you can watch the past hangouts that I hosted. Sparky has all the rest of them archived on his SH channel. We have a lot of fun. The ratings have been climbing since I've been hosting the show. I'm a movie star, Lol.

Watching the WX, I want to fly the Twister this week too.
Rusty

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Re: What's that big box by the back door... Or... The P-40 assy. is DONE.

Post  roddie on Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:51 am

RknRusty wrote:
If I had a piece of 5/32 CF rod I could hook up the controls too. I really hate the thin pot-metal wire setup with 1/2A size control hardware that came with it, but I might just say what the hell and use it anyway. The length is adjusted with a soldering iron in the middle where two rods are grafted together with a solder coupler. But I have plenty of stuff in my control parts drawer that might couple up better, so we'll see what I come up with. I already dug it all out to fiddle with.

This is kinda fun, I've never had such an easy "build."

Rusty

Does it mention anything in the instructions about roughing-up the rod-ends and "tinning" them prior to applying solder to the assembled-coupling? Silver-solder would be my choice. I realize you don't have a large time-investment with this model.. but it will be game-over if one of those rod-ends separates from the coupling during a maneuver.. Two Cents
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Re: What's that big box by the back door... Or... The P-40 assy. is DONE.

Post  Ken Cook on Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:48 pm

The rice wire supplied with the kit is horrid. It takes a lot of sanding to get a decent solder joint. There's soldering that works and there's soldering that's permanent. I opt for the later. The plating has to be removed to get a decent bit with solder. The main thing is to put low tack tape on your wing or fuse around where the solder is taking place, any drips will melt right through the covering. Even hot flux will do the same so you need to be careful there. The wire is metric and replacing it can be problematic due to the fractional wire not fitting the flap horns correctly which needs to be bushed which is also a pain in the rear. Rusty, use caution if the flap horn needs tweaking, many times the ARF's were flying tip low in level flight. This was a huge problem with the first gen but I've also seen it on the 2nd. I uncovered the trailing edge on the outboard tip and sliced it off re gluing it to use as a trim tab. I'm surprised Londke hasn't seen this as this is what he was flying with you in Huntersville. Ken
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Re: What's that big box by the back door... Or... The P-40 assy. is DONE.

Post  fredvon4 on Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:44 pm

Me too Ken...I appreciate your observation and looking forward to Mike's thoughts


Rusty...stop right now and do not be in a hurry....this is one cool war bird

Get the controls right from the get go...you already have the bits....do not screw with the soldered linkage

Make it a 500 flight plane not a 30 flight one....JUST an opinion
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Re: What's that big box by the back door... Or... The P-40 assy. is DONE.

Post  RknRusty on Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:22 pm

Y'all don't worry, it'll be solid. But thanks for your concern. I have plenty of CF tube, just not the 5/32" size I prefer. I like it because I can take a 1.5" x 1/8" od brass tube, punch 3/4" of it full of holes(for glue purchase), tap the other end for 4-40. Then I screw a JB covered threaded rod 3/4" deep into it and score the rest of it, JB the whole length of brass into the CF rod. Now I can screw a ball link onto the protruding threaded rod. It takes almost as long for me to write it as it does to do it. And the slim long-rod is plenty stiff, no brace needed, and attractive too. I also sleeve 3/16" aluminum collars over the ends. BUT... I have plenty of bigger rod that can be done in a similar fashion, just not my favorite.

Here's my old way of doing it. Soldered brass collars and JB it into the tube. Now that I have dies, I can thread that for a ball link too. Z-bends are too much like work.

I think that picture was taken back during my Yak build, I recognize the brass collars. Bob asked me where I got those cool control rods, Lol.

Okay, so I'm done in the shop for today. Flaps hinged and installed, wing glued into the fuse, almost a perfect fit. I started to install the stab and elevator assy. and ran out of glue. Sat down and realized I'd had enough, so now I'm typing to y'all. I'm going out to fly the Twister Tuesday or Thursday, whichever suits Wayne. He's out riding thermals today.

Later,
Rusty

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Re: What's that big box by the back door... Or... The P-40 assy. is DONE.

Post  roddie on Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:13 pm

Cool Rusty! Thumbs Up There's always more than one way to skin a cat! Good luck with the Twister!
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Re: What's that big box by the back door... Or... The P-40 assy. is DONE.

Post  fredvon4 on Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:10 am

Rusty

Obviously there are many options for good cheap CF tube and rod

I prefer to get most of my purpose sized Tubing stuff from APC
https://store.acpsales.com/products/2376/carbon-fiber-pultruded-tubes

Great prices, fast shipping, love them

That said, we have a local Gun/Bow store in our podunk town (Nocked and Loaded) that is actually very good with a Cabella's (nearly) sized inventory---- and we also have more than one indoor Bow range to help sell the annual Deer hunt necessities

I have about a 20 stick bundle of all sorts of Arrow shaft CF tube, some skinny, and some 5/16th diameter that I got free, for just the asking at the ranges....

Mostly they have broken nocks, shattered shafts, missing points, loose/ missing fetches.... a LOT of them are super high tech impressive pedigree CF tube...all pitched in the dead arrow bin at the range....much like a re-kitted balsa plane at the flying site... range guy lets me freely pick through every few months and take all I want....gratis

I still prefer to make the control push rods with my APC small dia tube to fit snugly to the Titanium inserts with 4/40 thread...(despite some warnings that Titanium machining may have induced stress cracks) as well as the (you taught me) K&B assortment brass tube sections to sleeve the OD and prevent splitting/tear out

Of course there are many uses of good lie weight, straight, high strength, CF tube as well as CF TOW, Veil, cloth and flat plate... I got a Pat Johnston and Brodak Tube set of wing jigs... my fee tubing works in each of them

For example some of us use aluminum under the engine lugs onto the Maple bearers... I have a "given to me" 36" length of 1/8 thick x 1/2 wide CF bar stock.... used it instead of aluminum under the engine lugs...The CF bar stock is as strong as and a TAD lighter

While there is some concern about CF dust.... what I found was, sanding/filing the CF engine bearers to a 1 to 3 degree angle for engine offset, was a lot easier than doing this with the aluminum.... as we know sanding or machining aluminum always builds up crap in the paper or file

OK, a lot of guys are going to, or should be, asking WHY NOT just use the Brodak, engine 1 to 3 degree wedges...

I do, now, and will continue to use, the ones from other sources that are steel/aluminum, or my own carved ones....BUT the Plastic/Nylon versions compress too much and they eventually allow the fasteners to loosen
--------------------------------------
OK Rusty OFF Topic...or NOT

Looks like the P40 may be one of your better done/looking birds... no disrespect to others you have finished --- Like Taz

I am considering using either the Nobler ARF or the Brodak P40 as my first ever attempt as some meager panel lines

Have you considered screwing with this?



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Re: What's that big box by the back door... Or... The P-40 assy. is DONE.

Post  RknRusty on Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:04 pm

fredvon4 wrote:

Looks like the P40 may be one of your better done/looking birds... no disrespect to others you have finished --- Like Taz

I am considering using either the Nobler ARF or the Brodak P40 as my first ever attempt as some meager panel lines

Have you considered screwing with this?

Only recently, after seeing Shug so remarkably delineate his ARF Tutor. When I see Avaiojet-Charles, my clubmate Don Jenkins and other Artists do it, I blow it off as way too much trouble for a soon-to-be beater, my Yak not included in that category. But Shug's impulsive inspiration and resultant elevating of his ARF to another level got me thinking, I'd like to start by dabbling in it. Maybe or maybe not work my way up the skill ladder. Maybe the Flying Tiger??? The Shadow Knows....






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