Cox Engines Forum
You are not logged in! Please login or register! Guests are limited to posting in the "General Questions (Guest Posting Allowed)" section only. Becoming a member is fast, easy and FREE!


Log in

I forgot my password

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Cox Engine of The Month
June-2018
Davenz13's

".049 Bee"



PAST WINNERS
Speed Contest 2018
CEF Traveling Engine

Win This Engine!
The Traveling Prop
Gallery


World of Aviation

Is it worth buying the parts for a 049 tee dee rather than try finding one?

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

Go down

Is it worth buying the parts for a 049 tee dee rather than try finding one?

Post  xtal_01 on Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:39 pm

So, from my last post, it was suggested that a good tee dee will cost about $75 (I'm guessing this would be a good used one).

I am not worried about the packaging since I want to run it but I do want a good engine.

As I was on ebay, I noticed a bunch of new parts from EX MODEL and wondered about putting one together from parts.

Good idea or bad idea?

First, I did a quick search and didn't find a blow up picture of the engine with part numbers ... can someone show me where to find one?

The body is $35 (with crank and plastic carb body)

Needle, venturi and body $13

Spinner and screw $3

Backplate $4

Cylinder and piston $15

Glow head $10

I think these are all the parts I would need or did I miss anything?

Total ..... $80

A bit more than I wanted to spend but you do get a new engine. Do you think I can find a new one on ebay (or elsewhere) cheaper?

While I was looking at the parts, I came up with two more question ...

1) Is it worth changing the plastic carb body to an aluminum one ($15)? I guess the question is what is the benefit of doing this.

2) Do you use a stock glow plug or an adapter and plug .... again what is the benefit?

Thanks once again .... Mike







avatar
xtal_01
Bronze Member
Bronze Member

Posts : 42
Join date : 2018-02-26
Age : 55
Location : Jericho, Vermont

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Is it worth buying the parts for a 049 tee dee rather than try finding one?

Post  Mark Boesen on Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:53 pm

bit more than I wanted to spend but you do get a new engine. Do you think I can find a new one on ebay (or elsewhere) cheaper? >>>>yes, or at least like new, look for one that doesn't have plier marks or rust, dirt/oil is ok as long as you can see it's not been abused, you should be able to find a decent one on eBay for $35-$45 shipped.

While I was looking at the parts, I came up with two more question ...

1) Is it worth changing the plastic carb body to an aluminum one ($15)? I guess the question is what is the benefit of doing this. >>>>no, only if you smack it into ground, see first sentence.

2) Do you use a stock glow plug or an adapter and plug .... again what is the benefit? >>>>stock hicomp plugs aren't cheap, if you fly a lot look for aftermarket hicomp heads.
avatar
Mark Boesen
Top Poster
Top Poster

Posts : 3572
Join date : 2011-09-01
Age : 59
Location : Rockford, Il

View user profile http://groups.yahoo.com/group/049Collectors/

Back to top Go down

Re: Is it worth buying the parts for a 049 tee dee rather than try finding one?

Post  Jason_WI on Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:04 pm

The later TDs in the black red silver boxes are cheaper than the crystal box version. Gotta look at those NIB engines closely. Some are run then put back in the box. Look for staining on the insert next to the cylinder or castor deposits on the crankcase.

Look for an early stepped or thin walled cylinder version if going used. These had tapered cylinders. The later versions did not.

Gotta watch the aluminum carb body as they can leak where it meets the back of the crankcase. Some newer versions use Teflon seal now. Find one with a KK needle valve body.
avatar
Jason_WI
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

I Support My Forum

Posts : 2257
Join date : 2011-10-09
Age : 42
Location : Neenah, WI

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Is it worth buying the parts for a 049 tee dee rather than try finding one?

Post  Ken Cook on Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:32 am

Mike, what are you going to use your TD for?  I come across them frequently and I have enough of them so I pass them up. I personally feel that buying one from parts seems to be quite an expense. Your not going to get a true TD cylinder unless your find some new old stock piston cylinders. The current offerings are modified production cylinders. The modified cylinders work, and they're a great thing to have on hand.  The claim is that they're as good but I have not found them to be on par with true TD cylinders. Jason mentioned the thin wall cylinder version. I myself am a fan of those as I find them to be very good runners and they hot start well.I would like to add though that the later thick walled versions can be equally if not more powerful. The main advantage to the thick walled versions for a beginner is that flats milled on the top of the cylinder which allows easy removal with a Cox tool vs the thin walled which you would need a strap wrench if removal is needed. Don't ever use the tool inserted into the exhaust. Thin walled cylinders can easily be damaged doing so as the cylinder can distort if heat isn't used upon removal.

        I use aluminum bodies due to flying combat and a stupid move can put the TD in the ground and the venturi stays in the aluminum vs the stock unit. The stock unit can take punishment just not like the aluminum. Eventually the stock unit splits around the area where the venturi screws in even without punishment. The black .049 body makes it difficult to see the cracks when they do develop but starting and needling is seriously compromised if it does run.

         Seeing you haven't owned one, I feel you would be much better off using the stock plugs whether that would be the high compression version or the stock 325 used on the Bees. Depending on adapters, rpm's can vary from stock to sub par. Merlin makes what is known as a drop in plug which is a button style plug and a head clamp. These work well but require a bit of knowledge in terms of head shims because they can over compress the engine causing hard starting and pre ignition. A Merlin setup generally requires 4-5 shims. Of course this is all pending on how much nitro your using in your fuel. The more nitro, the more head shims. Not all head shims are the same thickness and knowing what you have is equally important which can also dictate how many head shims. In the 80's, Cox provided 3 shims in the TD's cylinder using the stock plug. After several runs, you removed one at a time. This usually resulted in removing one. While performance can increase removing another, the end result is that your going to ruin a plug. Plugs don't have a infinite life and a new engine is usually going to blow one or more during break in. If you find your blowing plugs add another shim or shims until this stops.


          Cost of plugs are expensive. Your far better to buy Cox plugs in lots of 3 vs 1. Your going to need them due to them being a critical element of how the engine runs. A Merlin setup comes with 3 drop in buttons and one head clamp for about $14. I use a Galbreath/Nelson plug which is a high performance setup but Nelson plugs only cost $4 and a Galbreath head adapter is $12. While this is not necessary, the reason I do this is due to most of my engines have been converted to Nelson plugs. Mecoa offers a head conversion that uses standard 1/4"-32 glow plugs but your going to see a fair decrease in rpm's in using one. If your style of flying doesn't warrant the need for all out rpm's they can work.


            Buying a used TD can be a crap shoot. These engines can take a lot of abuse but the TD with it's large venturi can be a bit problematic to run on a tank if control line flying is your choice. Unless you have a distinct knowledge of tank design and placement, the TD can be a bit cantankerous to use on a profile model. It suffers from fuel draw which is why most people use bladder pressure or backplate pressure. This would require a backplate with a pressure nipple. The reason I mention this is due to prior owners may have drilled the venturi to open it up for more performance. If you buy a used TD I would be certain that you have a new unmolested ventui   in the event you had to replace it. A drilled venturi may possibly  run on suction with a tank at least until you launch the model. The engine when it unloads will instantly die on release. These engines were used a lot for free flight which is really what they were designed for therefore most were running some type of pressure via bladder or pacifier. The other thing is that they were used for speed and I have bought used versions which had left handed cranks and this was unknown at the time of purchase.  Having a TD with a left handed crank and not knowing so will test your patience.

            In addition to used TD's, Cox offered detailed instruction on how to drill through the stock nipple on the side of the carb body. There's no way to tell if someone drilled this unless you take it apart. If someone did this, it's a bit of a problem if unknown. This was for timed crankcase pressure. I never use this and I never had success doing so. Tubing doesn't effectively stay put on the nipple and it causes the engine to surge. This also required drilling of the crankcase with a small number drill. The engine won't run effectively if this is drilled and your not using the pressure nipple which will require it to be filled. Just something to think about if purchasing used.

           Jason also mentioned the KK style needle valve. ACE also made a plastic needle body with a fine threaded needle valve which generally sells for a fair amount $20. Ebay though has had some of these examples selling for double that.  This needle valve is a very good needle valve for the TD but not a necessity. They have been selling for ridiculous prices lately. This needle has a thread pitch of 128 threads per inch while the stock unit has 80. This allows for a more finite adjustment which is required for running pressure such as a bladder. A TD running on tank works well with the stock unit which may just require a piece of fuel tubing over the exterior of the needle to stop any air leaks around the threads.

        I have purchased a few engine from Ebay knowing that sight unseen it will more than likely require some type of work to make it correct. I wouldn't get caught up in a bidding war. I have seen them go for excess of $70 and as low as $25. Ebay in my opinion generally is all over the map.
avatar
Ken Cook
Top Poster
Top Poster

Posts : 3030
Join date : 2012-03-27
Location : pennsylvania

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Is it worth buying the parts for a 049 tee dee rather than try finding one?

Post  Oldenginerod on Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:31 am

I don't have a lot of experience with Tee Dees, but a couple of years back I built a reed valve engine for our Tach Race (max rpm) which went to a winning 24,100 rpm. (Similar to Tee Dee speeds). The main modification, apart from matching up fits etc, was to use one of Cox International's "Tee Dee" reproduction cylinders. These are basically Sure Start cylinders with modified exhaust ports which end up with similar porting to the original #4 Tee Dee cylinders. I used a stock Tee Dee High comp head with two gaskets.
What I'm saying here is that if you were to go the direction of buying new parts and building up your own engine then this cylinder and head configuration should give you the performance you want. Then again, if you can find a cheap tired but good complete second hand Tee Dee, the new replacement cylinder/piston could bring the performance back up to scratch for less money.
avatar
Oldenginerod
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 2134
Join date : 2012-06-15
Age : 55
Location : Victoria, Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

You guys are the best!!!!!

Post  xtal_01 on Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:52 am

I wish I could find this much knowledge on every topic I am interested in.

Again, exactly the information I was looking for.

This is truly just a toy. I have a number of reed valve 049's but just never tried a tee dee. Just thought it would be interesting to give one a shot for a change.

I truly appreciate all the warnings. That was my biggest fear ... I would buy a piece of junk just because it is cheap but then get frustrated with it, not knowing it had been either abused or modified or????

As I said before, I don't mind sending money but I hate throwing it away ... just want to spend wisely.

Thanks so very much!

Other than ebay is there any other places to look? I am rural Vermont ... not many junk or second hand stores, not many garage sales, have never seen any on Craigslist, .... have never even heard of a meet around here.

I will be keeping my eyes on ebay ( not sure what they will end up selling for but there is now: one that looks "well used" for $25 ... new with no package for $47 ... New in box $57 ... new in box $70 ..... new in box .051 $103 ... new in box $130 .... and a bunch of used ones in various states and prices).

Thanks again .... Mike
avatar
xtal_01
Bronze Member
Bronze Member

Posts : 42
Join date : 2018-02-26
Age : 55
Location : Jericho, Vermont

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Is it worth buying the parts for a 049 tee dee rather than try finding one?

Post  fredvon4 on Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:10 pm

Randy Smith on Stunt-hanger has a few worth considering for the price asked

https://stunthanger.com/smf/classifieds-92/motors-for-sale-list/?topicseen

COX tee dee 051 used runs well $45
COX 049 front intake Medallion with new NVA and needle , with RED COX tank great shape great compression $40.00
avatar
fredvon4
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Trusted Seller
Posts : 2375
Join date : 2011-08-26
Age : 62
Location : Lampasas Texas

View user profile

Back to top Go down

What a selection!

Post  xtal_01 on Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:31 pm

WOW ... didn't know one person would ever acquire so many engines. Even the hobby shops I use to visit only had a handful on hand.

Thanks for the tip!

Mike
avatar
xtal_01
Bronze Member
Bronze Member

Posts : 42
Join date : 2018-02-26
Age : 55
Location : Jericho, Vermont

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Is it worth buying the parts for a 049 tee dee rather than try finding one?

Post  Kim on Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:14 pm

Hey Mike,

P.M. me your snail mail address and I'll send you a 'Seed Engine' TD for postage.  It's already a runner, and in good shape, and will let you will let you put your budget toward the inevitable accessories you'll be needing.

Spreading the Wealth Kim


Last edited by Kim on Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
avatar
Kim
Top Poster
Top Poster

I Support My Forum

Posts : 6033
Join date : 2011-09-06
Location : South East Missouri

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Is it worth buying the parts for a 049 tee dee rather than try finding one?

Post  Oldenginerod on Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:59 pm

Kim wrote:Hey Mike,

P.M. me your snail mail address and I'll send you 'Seed Engine' TD for postage.  It's already a runner, and in good shape, and will let you will let you put your budget toward the inevitable accessories you'll be needing.

Spreading the Wealth Kim

Wow, nice one Kim. Thumbs Up
avatar
Oldenginerod
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 2134
Join date : 2012-06-15
Age : 55
Location : Victoria, Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Awesome !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post  xtal_01 on Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:33 pm

WOW ... this is incredible!

I just tried to PM and it gave me an error ... said something about being a new member (less than 7 days).

Anyway, it did let me send an e-mail. Let me know if you get this!!!!

This is truly amazing .... you don't know how much I appreciate it!

Thanks so much again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mike

PS ... my wife says thanks also ... she said I must finish building the house before I "play" so she is hoping I'll work a bit faster now ... actually putting door handles on today while waiting for poly to dry on the stairs ... almost there after 5 years but we do have a wheelchair accessible house with large doors, roll in shower, ....
avatar
xtal_01
Bronze Member
Bronze Member

Posts : 42
Join date : 2018-02-26
Age : 55
Location : Jericho, Vermont

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Sent PM

Post  xtal_01 on Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:41 pm

Got it ... would not let me send an e-mail in a PM if you are a new member.

Sent an e-mail and PM

Thanks soooooooooo much again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mike
avatar
xtal_01
Bronze Member
Bronze Member

Posts : 42
Join date : 2018-02-26
Age : 55
Location : Jericho, Vermont

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Is it worth buying the parts for a 049 tee dee rather than try finding one?

Post  Kim on Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:46 pm

xtal_01 wrote:WOW ... this is incredible!

I just tried to PM and it gave me an error ... said something about being a new member (less than 7 days).

Anyway, it did let me send an e-mail.  Let me know if you get this!!!!

This is truly amazing  .... you don't know how much I appreciate it!

Thanks so much again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mike

PS ... my wife says thanks also ... she said I must finish building the house before I "play" so she is hoping I'll work a bit faster now ... actually putting door handles on today while waiting for poly to dry on the stairs ... almost there after 5 years but we do have a wheelchair accessible house with large doors, roll in shower, ....

Well, a guy's got to keep the home wheels spinning also. Your very welcome on the engine, it seems pretty obvious that you're indeed into the hobby or sport or whatever we call all this goings-on.

This forum-for me- IS the best one on the web, and I've received more than my fair share of assorted engines and parts and tools and what-not from the guys here...some of it completely out of the blue. They often get as big a kick out other members antics and experiments as was those they take on themselves---witness the great thread on the metal racer and it's Babe Bee!

Anyway, I'll check for your note...my Internet service is historically cranky...
avatar
Kim
Top Poster
Top Poster

I Support My Forum

Posts : 6033
Join date : 2011-09-06
Location : South East Missouri

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Is it worth buying the parts for a 049 tee dee rather than try finding one?

Post  fredvon4 on Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:17 pm

Followed this for a bit

I have focused on medallions and Teedees for a while cuz I am frustrated with reed engines....for MY use

Bought many in Lots...have (once cost per engine was calculated) several TeeDees well under $40 each

BUT the point of this note is:

I built two identical TeeDee .049s... one LH crank whole from New on line parts

each cost $109 to build and I am pretty good at searching for best deal parts

The hardest part to find NEW is the TeeDee or Medallion Crank case...all other parts are readily available from many sources

Also I tend to think the cost of a Galbreath head adapter ($12) and Nelson plug ($5)...vs True Cox High Compression head ($13~$15) is a good deal... Others will disagree....but I was snuffing HC Cox heads at an alarming rate..testing...but have never snuffed a nelson plug...yet

I have many original CLY/ Piston sets... and with my Hot fuel mix, Galbraith head set up, actually prefer Cox-international TeeDee .049 Cyl/Piston sets that are single exhaust slit versions....

Do Not discount what Ken Cook said... he fly's competitively

I fly for fun and the occasional built an engine for the CEF contests....

Every TeeDee .049 I managed to spin to 29K+ on the bench sent the prop off into the sheet rock...small wonder i do not have lacerations on my face

BTW 55% Vitimin N is a wee bit much... stay around 45% or under... 35% is ideal...grin




avatar
fredvon4
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Trusted Seller
Posts : 2375
Join date : 2011-08-26
Age : 62
Location : Lampasas Texas

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Is it worth buying the parts for a 049 tee dee rather than try finding one?

Post  Kim on Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:18 pm

Oldenginerod wrote:

Wow, nice one Kim. Thumbs Up

Thanks Rod!   What are you doing up so late ???!!!![/quote]
avatar
Kim
Top Poster
Top Poster

I Support My Forum

Posts : 6033
Join date : 2011-09-06
Location : South East Missouri

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Is it worth buying the parts for a 049 tee dee rather than try finding one?

Post  fredvon4 on Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:27 pm

I actually would like some sort of world Time Icon...when I log to these sites

I often wonder when I am in Central USA time zone when Balgoh or Rod or other like overlord, Liven might even see my response or query
avatar
fredvon4
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Trusted Seller
Posts : 2375
Join date : 2011-08-26
Age : 62
Location : Lampasas Texas

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Is it worth buying the parts for a 049 tee dee rather than try finding one?

Post  Kim on Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:34 pm

xtal_01 wrote:

I just tried to PM and it gave me an error ... said something about being a new member (less than 7 days).

Anyway, it did let me send an e-mail.  Let me know if you get this!!!!


Got both and responded to both...so ONE shoulda made it !!!!
avatar
Kim
Top Poster
Top Poster

I Support My Forum

Posts : 6033
Join date : 2011-09-06
Location : South East Missouri

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Is it worth buying the parts for a 049 tee dee rather than try finding one?

Post  balogh on Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:07 pm

fredvon4 wrote:I actually would like some sort of world Time Icon...when I log to these sites

I often wonder when I am in Central USA time zone when Balgoh or Rod or other like overlord, Liven might even see my response or query

No matter the time zone Fred: Big Brother from Budapest is always watching this forum... Very Happy

BBB aka Big Brother Balogh

avatar
balogh
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1856
Join date : 2011-11-06
Age : 59
Location : Budapest

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Is it worth buying the parts for a 049 tee dee rather than try finding one?

Post  Kim on Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:10 pm

balogh wrote:
fredvon4 wrote:I actually would like some sort of world Time Icon...when I log to these sites

I often wonder when I am in Central USA time zone when Balgoh or Rod or other like overlord, Liven might even see my response or query

No matter the time zone Fred: Big Brother from Budapest is always watching this forum... Very Happy

BBB aka Big Brother Balogh


So, is that to say, "We CEF'rs are Timeless"?
avatar
Kim
Top Poster
Top Poster

I Support My Forum

Posts : 6033
Join date : 2011-09-06
Location : South East Missouri

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Is it worth buying the parts for a 049 tee dee rather than try finding one?

Post  balogh on Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:21 pm

Sure Kim we are "timeless" Very Happy

Whether out of insomnia or sheer intrigue but I check in CEF right after I get notified that threads I am involved in are being answered...

It is 20 past midnight here...
avatar
balogh
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1856
Join date : 2011-11-06
Age : 59
Location : Budapest

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Is it worth buying the parts for a 049 tee dee rather than try finding one?

Post  fit90 on Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:24 pm

Kim wrote:
balogh wrote:
fredvon4 wrote:I actually would like some sort of world Time Icon...when I log to these sites

I often wonder when I am in Central USA time zone when Balgoh or Rod or other like overlord, Liven might even see my response or query

No matter the time zone Fred: Big Brother from Budapest is always watching this forum... Very Happy

BBB aka Big Brother Balogh


So, is that to say, "We CEF'rs are Timeless"?


Very clever!
avatar
fit90
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 1201
Join date : 2011-08-11
Location : Naples, Florida

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Is it worth buying the parts for a 049 tee dee rather than try finding one?

Post  Oldenginerod on Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:48 pm

Kim wrote:
Oldenginerod wrote:

Wow, nice one Kim. Thumbs Up

Thanks Rod!   What are you doing up so late ???!!!!
[/quote]

Wow, it was late!! Not really. 7.59am when I posted. Just doing my morning ritual of checking what all you guys have been talking about while I've been sleeping.
lol!
avatar
Oldenginerod
Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Posts : 2134
Join date : 2012-06-15
Age : 55
Location : Victoria, Australia

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Is it worth buying the parts for a 049 tee dee rather than try finding one?

Post  Kim on Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:53 pm

Oldenginerod wrote:
Kim wrote:
Oldenginerod wrote:

Wow, nice one Kim. Thumbs Up

Thanks Rod!   What are you doing up so late ???!!!!

Wow, it was late!!  Not really.  7.59am when I posted.  Just doing my morning ritual of checking what all you guys have been talking about while I've been sleeping.
lol! [/quote]

Well, Good Morning!!!
Like Fred says, I need to get me a World Time Icon !!!
avatar
Kim
Top Poster
Top Poster

I Support My Forum

Posts : 6033
Join date : 2011-09-06
Location : South East Missouri

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Really .... Australia ... Hungry ...?????

Post  xtal_01 on Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:59 pm

Is there really that big of a following?

I made the assumption that Cox would have been a US "thing".

I figured other countries would have made equivalent products.

Were these engines popular all over the world or ????

Mike
avatar
xtal_01
Bronze Member
Bronze Member

Posts : 42
Join date : 2018-02-26
Age : 55
Location : Jericho, Vermont

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Is it worth buying the parts for a 049 tee dee rather than try finding one?

Post  Kim on Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:34 pm

xtal_01 wrote:Is there really that big of a following?  

I made the assumption that Cox would have been a US "thing".

I figured other countries would have made equivalent products.

Were these engines popular all over the world or ????

Mike

Not just the engines:

avatar
Kim
Top Poster
Top Poster

I Support My Forum

Posts : 6033
Join date : 2011-09-06
Location : South East Missouri

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Is it worth buying the parts for a 049 tee dee rather than try finding one?

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum