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Post  balogh on Thu May 28, 2020 7:26 am

Surfer_kris wrote:As mentioned earlier, a leather strap is all that's needed. Just heat up the crankcase and adjust the length of the strap so that you get a nice pinch. The principle is the same as for oil-filter removal tools on car engines. With a few different holes in the strap you'll have a tool for all cox engines sizes, and also for PAW and Webra diesel engines etc.

What Were They Thinking to Remove Cylinder - Page 2 Img_2010

Kris, whatever I am doing, with a similar leather strap remover I just made, all I can reach is that the strap slips on the cylinder fins, no matter how well the fins are de-greased, and how firmly I grip the strap. I understand that the flat side of the handle should press the strap against the cylinder when you rotate the handle and with this compression force the friction is in principle avoided, but apart from deep skid-marks on the inside of the strap, there is no result whatsoever. In addition, I tried that on an engine that was recently disassembled, so the castor is not yet caked between the cylinder and crankcase threads.

I know this tool works for many of you, but not for me ... Very Happy Is there anything I should do differently?
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Post  OVERLORD on Thu May 28, 2020 7:43 am

I didn't have any luck with such a strap neither. To remove the cylinder, I clamped the cylinder in one end of a vice with hard rubber protection pieces. Then I heated up the crank case and turn the crank case with your hand and a rag. On the other side of the vice, I clamped at the same time another cylinder. The reason I clamped it on the vice's side is because then it's possible to see wether the cylinder would still turn or not.

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Post  aspeed on Thu May 28, 2020 7:46 am

The end of the stick squeezes the leather kind of.  You could soak the leather in water for a little while?  IDK  I use a similar one for oil changes in the car.  The rubber strap stretches a bit too much but it usually works well if the part is not too tight. In any case, if you have the tools to mill flats on the cylinder later, it is really the best.
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Post  balogh on Thu May 28, 2020 8:08 am

aspeed wrote:The end of the stick squeezes the leather kind of.  You could soak the leather in water for a little while?  IDK  I use a similar one for oil changes in the car.  The rubber strap stretches a bit too much but it usually works well if the part is not too tight.  In any case, if you have the tools to mill flats on the cylinder later, it is really the best.  

Yes indeed this is what I am contemplating i.e. cutting the flats on the top fin myself, but with my manual abilities that are a bit less than those of the Neander Valley cave man, I already see myself jumping around cursing that I have completely messed up a vintage stock cylinder.... Very Happy


Last edited by balogh on Thu May 28, 2020 8:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post  balogh on Thu May 28, 2020 8:11 am

OVERLORD wrote:I didn't have any luck with such a strap neither. To remove the cylinder, I clamped the cylinder in one end of a vice with hard rubber protection pieces. Then I heated up the crank case and turn the crank case with your hand and a rag. On the other side of the vice, I clamped at the same time another cylinder. The reason I clamped it on the vice's side is because then it's possible to see wether the cylinder would still turn or not.


Thanks, good idea indeed, maybe I will try with an old defunct cylinder to check if the rubber padding of the vice will really prevent distortion of the cylinder fins..
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Post  Iceberg on Thu May 28, 2020 9:57 am

balogh wrote:
OVERLORD wrote:I didn't have any luck with such a strap neither. To remove the cylinder, I clamped the cylinder in one end of a vice with hard rubber protection pieces. Then I heated up the crank case and turn the crank case with your hand and a rag. On the other side of the vice, I clamped at the same time another cylinder. The reason I clamped it on the vice's side is because then it's possible to see wether the cylinder would still turn or not.


Thanks,  good idea indeed, maybe I will try with an old defunct cylinder to check if  the rubber padding of the vice will really prevent distortion of the cylinder fins..

Hi Andras
I have cut a number of cylinder top fins with a hacksaw in a vice. You can cut them so carefully that they look as good as the factory cylinders with that top fin cut. Only thing is the end of the cut is aluminum color not black anymore. Works really good.
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Post  Levent Suberk on Thu May 28, 2020 10:24 am

Brownells Formula 44/40 is good for the bluing cylinder.

What Were They Thinking to Remove Cylinder - Page 2 Gun_bl10

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Post  balogh on Thu May 28, 2020 12:04 pm

Darren, Levent thanks for the encouragement. Maybe I will try on a worn out cylinder. Yes I use gun blue on my cylinders regularly!
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Post  Surfer_kris on Thu May 28, 2020 12:36 pm

Regarding a leather strap, it is all about getting the length just right and one can also place a fine emery cloth around the cylinder for extra grip. Preheating the crankcase also helps.

Below is how I typically use it, apply some pretension to the strap (with the thumb) and as you apply more torque the leather band will tighten more and more. Here I picked up an old and used golden bee from the box of coxes, and I could easily remove the cylinder without pre-heating the crankcase:

What Were They Thinking to Remove Cylinder - Page 2 Img_1414
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Post  balogh on Thu May 28, 2020 1:58 pm

Yes Kris this emery cloth may be the key..then some gun blue to restore the nice COX cylinder color
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Post  aspeed on Thu May 28, 2020 2:14 pm

Or knurl the cylinder like the Foras. Maybe use some pliers to get some marks in the fins for grip. OH, NO never mind.
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Post  Surfer_kris on Thu May 28, 2020 3:07 pm

balogh wrote:Yes Kris this emery cloth may be the key..then some gun blue to restore the nice COX cylinder color

I'm using 1000 grit and one can turn the grainy side towards the leather, so there should be any marks on the cylinder at all. Wink
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Post  davidll1984 on Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:49 am

Black widow cylinder pré 96 wit is tool marks that cylinder was performing very Good now wit new piston crankcase and schaft tank wit plastiques back plate now Not so Good Huh... just its ventury size???? What Were They Thinking to Remove Cylinder - Page 2 16022210
Wil try To fix engine To its oem part exept for its piston and crankchaft hd crank??? For black widow??
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Post  ffkiwi on Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:27 pm

Gents-to those of you struggling (and I exclude surfer kris as he's shown his leather strap wrench works fine for him)-here is the answer to your problems-and it works on damn near any engine with a screw in cylinder and or head: https://www.micromark.com/Non-Scratch-Plier

You might think it a bit pricey...but how many wrecked or damaged cylinders will you accept before it becomes value for money?......and it will last a lifetime. I'm not a betting man....but if you were to print off the photo from the micromark website, take it in to your local toolstore or auto accessory shop and ask 'have you got something like this?' or 'can you get in something like this?' you might be pleasantly surprised...

Alternatively-if you have access to a machine shop-and specifically an internal cylinder grinder-get youself a suitable pair of pliers, grind off the teeth to create a smooth, circular internal jaw profile when closed-and glue a thin leather strip in this new circular interior surface. should last for years-and the leather will be replaceable once it gets a bit worn. Even old fashioned pincers could be adapted this way...

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Post  NEW222 on Sun Oct 11, 2020 1:05 am

Now isn't that a tool worth having. And seeing it it would be very easy to replicate from an old pair of pliers.
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Post  Admin on Sun Oct 11, 2020 1:36 am

Channel locks and an appropriately sized rubber hose cut open so it can wrap around the cylinder. I've done that before.

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Post  getback on Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:28 am

That's a interesting website Chris , never seen this place before Huh... I use the rubber hose trick alot ,but will still marr a cyl. if not heated sometimes > wish i had thought to cut the hose LOL This Site Rocks!
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Post  ffkiwi on Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:15 pm

getback wrote:That's a interesting website Chris , never seen this place before Huh... I use the rubber hose trick alot ,but will still marr a cyl. if not heated sometimes > wish i had thought to cut the hose LOL This Site Rocks!


I discovered it many years ago (decades ago!)-and have become an occasional customer many times since.....mainly I buy clever tools off them....the postage to New Zealand tends to be a bit of a killer....which helps keep my enthusiasm under control!..... They do seem to have a strong bias towards model rail, and that side of modelling, but their overall product range is quite comprehensive....and they often have sales....which is when I usually succumb to temptation...

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Post  bakergw on Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:40 pm

Goodaye All,

I have returned to Cox engines and CL after a 40 year rest from it. :-) and am thoroughly enjoying all aspects of researching, learning, reading, building my own designs, crashing, fixing and trying again. I was reading this thread and maybe a couple of others on the forum that seemed to mention this issue, and must say it also concerned me, as it seemed less than average to say the least.  Maybe I am not understandintg the issue properly, or maybe its only with older engines, but I recently bought a number of new engines from Bernie including  TEE DEE 049, and SureStart 049 with the two slit exhausts.

On all of the engines I have, the top of the barrel just below the glow head has machined flats and the Cox tool fits perfectly and with one tool holding the cylinder and another on the glow head it is very easy to remove the glow head and subsequently the cylinder if needed. The colour of the machined flats on the cylinder is the same as the rest of the cylinder, so it appears to be designed in.

Maybe the cylinders design has been changed again as I dont have the problem with motors bought from Bernie in the past two months, or maybe Im missing the point of the thread.  I bought spare cylinders but they are not where I am at the moment, so I cant check them. I hope they also have the machined flats!!

Cheers,
Gary
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Post  balogh on Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:48 pm

Gary, COX began cutting the top fin for the wrench in the 2nd half of 1970-s and since then all cylinders have the flats on them.
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Post  sosam117 on Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:01 pm

balogh wrote:Gary, COX began cutting the top fin for the wrench in the 2nd half of 1970-s and since then all cylinders have the flats on them.

Before the flats on the top of the cylinders, and before using the "strap" method, I used the "forked end" of the Cox wrench and inserted the U-shaped (fork end) into the exhaust ports (with the piston at dead bottom center) and unscrewed the cylinders that way. I thought that what that U-shaped end of the Cox wrench was for? It did fit pretty tight when run across the exhaust port?
Though it did mess up the outside diameter of the exhaust port a little.
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Post  balogh on Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:14 pm

You used the fork the correct way. If the fork slips though you are about to produce a burr inside the cylinder that is not easy to remove. With the old stock COX cylinder availability on the market dwindling, I always think twice before using the fork. Once I have a cylinder removed I clean the threads and add silicon oil in hopes it will not cake like castor and allow easier removal next time.
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Post  smooth_bill on Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:27 pm

Cox wrenches are cheap stamped sheet metal tools, and can damage cylinders if used to remove them from the crankcase (by sliding the tool across the exhaust ports)! Very bad idea anyway and most likely the reason Cox went to the milled top fins in later production.

I seldom use them on my engines, though the TD collet hook and glow head portion can be used if careful. Since your usually removing a burned out or questionable glow head anyway you don't worry about looks.

The problem is the burrs and rough edges of the Cox tools, not to mention the loose tolerances of the stampings.

My preference for screwed in cylinder removal is a simple strap wrench, easy to make, and very low cost. Nothing is better for that task, and one tool can fit a wide range of engine sizes.

Bill
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Post  rsv1cox on Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:44 pm

Agreed, Kris's strap wrench especially for slit cylinders is the best alternative.  I don't like the idea of a buffered plier compressing just two opposite sides of a cylinder.  Heat is everyone's friend here whether it's removing the head or the cylinder from the case.  

I have had best luck removing castor stuck heads/cylinders by putting the case in a buffered vice, heating, then using a Cox wrench that I buffer with masking tape fully inserted through the exhaust ports as designed and bumping the wrench with the palm of my hand.  Vice should not be tightened, sufficiently snug does the job.  I have done many, many this way with no negative results.  Remember, I seldom bought a Cox engine (hundred plus) that wasn't a castor locked mess.
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Post  sosam117 on Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:49 pm

smooth_bill wrote:Cox wrenches are cheap stamped sheet metal tools, and can damage cylinders if used to remove them from the crankcase (by sliding the tool across the exhaust ports)! Very bad idea anyway and most likely the reason Cox went to the milled top fins in later production.

I seldom use them on my engines, though the TD collet hook and glow head portion can be used if careful. Since your usually removing a burned out or questionable glow head anyway you don't worry about looks.

The problem is the burrs and rough edges of the Cox tools, not to mention the loose tolerances of the  stampings.

My preference for screwed in cylinder removal is a simple strap wrench, easy to make, and very low cost. Nothing is better for that task, and one tool can fit a wide range of engine sizes.

Bill

Bill,
The smaller Enya engines (Enya .049 / .06 / .08 / and .10) use a wench that is similar to the Cox wrench, but they are twice the thickness of the Cox wrench and the fit in the exhaust port is a tight fit. It is even tough to get the wrench into the exhaust ports to remove the cylinder head.
The two bent ears on the other end is to remove the head with the glow plug installed. If the glow plug is removed, then you can use the long "side of the wrench" to get more leverage.

Also, the holes in the middle of the wrench is to tighten/loosen the prop nut, the other is for tighten/loosen the glow plug

What Were They Thinking to Remove Cylinder - Page 2 Enya_e10
What Were They Thinking to Remove Cylinder - Page 2 Enya_022
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