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Cox Engine of The Month
Merlin inserts?
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Merlin inserts?
It looks like I missed Merlin going out of business. I still have a few inserts left. When those are used up, is there any inserts made by another company?
I also looked at the Nelson plugs, but it looks like there is only one source for the heads which is Galbreath's.
Good thing Cox Canada is listing new manufacture glow heads.
If I have missed something obvious in my searches..... well that's just me.
Aero- Silver Member
- Posts : 73
Join date : 2014-08-10
Location : Southern IN
Re: Merlin inserts?
When they are no good, don't throw them out. They can likely be drilled and tapped for turbo plugs. Probably easier than the Cox ones.
aspeed- Platinum Member
- Posts : 796
Join date : 2013-01-18
Location : Leamington Ont. Can.
Re: Merlin inserts?
+1 on that.63expert wrote:Kamtechnic is also a source
aspeed- Platinum Member
- Posts : 796
Join date : 2013-01-18
Location : Leamington Ont. Can.
Re: Merlin inserts?
After some searching, I found Kamtechnic. All I see on that site are heads that call for an OS plug, no inserts.
I also see that MECOA has K&B and Norvel type inserts.
I also see that MECOA has K&B and Norvel type inserts.
Aero- Silver Member
- Posts : 73
Join date : 2014-08-10
Location : Southern IN
Re: Merlin inserts?
That is the right head. Not an insert. It takes a Turbo style plug. Better power than the MECOA ones that use a standard 1/4" plug. Similar to the Cox TD heads in power. Arguably a bit more.
aspeed- Platinum Member
- Posts : 796
Join date : 2013-01-18
Location : Leamington Ont. Can.
Re: Merlin inserts?
Aero,
I know when I got my first Norvel .061, I tried a Cox head on it. It worked. Then I got an AP .061, and successfully tried a Cox head on it. Shortly after, I bought a package of Merlin plugs and the head/adapter. And I seem to remember noticing Merlin plugs fit the Norvel and AP engines, as well as my Cox engines. All those inserts worked fairly interchangeably on Cox .049s, and the Norvel/AP .061s. No combination was flight tested, but bench tested. I do remember having to make head gasket adjustments...but no details.
Mecoa's website indicates their insert will NOT fit the AP adapter. The adapter's hole is to small in diameter. So worst case is you'll need a Norvel adapter, or access to a drill press to drill out your Merlin adapter.
I also have Norvel .074 engines. They have larger inserts, so no interchangeability with th littler engines there.
So, if you think you would try a Mecoa insert in place of the Merlins, then I would gladly go find my inserts and do some measuring and comparing of the Merlins, Norvels and apparently narrower APs. I may do anyway, since this thread caused.me to go check their offering.
Is this a perfect answer? Nope, but since Mecoa is marketing theirs as .061 compatible, this may be the next best thing to Merlins for our .049/.061 engines.
Let me know you want the data...then I'll prioritize the check.
I know when I got my first Norvel .061, I tried a Cox head on it. It worked. Then I got an AP .061, and successfully tried a Cox head on it. Shortly after, I bought a package of Merlin plugs and the head/adapter. And I seem to remember noticing Merlin plugs fit the Norvel and AP engines, as well as my Cox engines. All those inserts worked fairly interchangeably on Cox .049s, and the Norvel/AP .061s. No combination was flight tested, but bench tested. I do remember having to make head gasket adjustments...but no details.
Mecoa's website indicates their insert will NOT fit the AP adapter. The adapter's hole is to small in diameter. So worst case is you'll need a Norvel adapter, or access to a drill press to drill out your Merlin adapter.
I also have Norvel .074 engines. They have larger inserts, so no interchangeability with th littler engines there.
So, if you think you would try a Mecoa insert in place of the Merlins, then I would gladly go find my inserts and do some measuring and comparing of the Merlins, Norvels and apparently narrower APs. I may do anyway, since this thread caused.me to go check their offering.
Is this a perfect answer? Nope, but since Mecoa is marketing theirs as .061 compatible, this may be the next best thing to Merlins for our .049/.061 engines.
Let me know you want the data...then I'll prioritize the check.
_________________
Never enough time to build them all...always enough time to smash them all!
944_Jim- Diamond Member
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Posts : 2025
Join date : 2017-02-08
Age : 59
Location : NE MS
Re: Merlin inserts?
944_Jim wrote:Aero,
I know when I got my first Norvel .061, I tried a Cox head on it. It worked. Then I got an AP .061, and successfully tried a Cox head on it. Shortly after, I bought a package of Merlin plugs and the head/adapter. And I seem to remember noticing Merlin plugs fit the Norvel and AP engines, as well as my Cox engines. All those inserts worked fairly interchangeably on Cox .049s, and the Norvel/AP .061s. No combination was flight tested, but bench tested. I do remember having to make head gasket adjustments...but no details.
Mecoa's website indicates their insert will NOT fit the AP adapter. The adapter's hole is to small in diameter. So worst case is you'll need a Norvel adapter, or access to a drill press to drill out your Merlin adapter.
I also have Norvel .074 engines. They have larger inserts, so no interchangeability with th littler engines there.
So, if you think you would try a Mecoa insert in place of the Merlins, then I would gladly go find my inserts and do some measuring and comparing of the Merlins, Norvels and apparently narrower APs. I may do anyway, since this thread caused.me to go check their offering.
Is this a perfect answer? Nope, but since Mecoa is marketing theirs as .061 compatible, this may be the next best thing to Merlins for our .049/.061 engines.
Let me know you want the data...then I'll prioritize the check.
944_Jim, I would appreciate you doing that!
I only have 3 maybe 4 extra Cox heads left, 2 Norvel inserts and 2 Merlin inserts left.
I was wanting to find replacements and the roads are looking kinda narrow now.
Glad to get all the input!
Aero- Silver Member
- Posts : 73
Join date : 2014-08-10
Location : Southern IN
Re: Merlin inserts?
This is not the place of commercials here, but the reason I bought a couple of Kamtechnik turbo heads was their interchangeability with all COX049 heads (and heads of Norvel 051/061 engines, which I have but do not use) at way higher engine output than with the stock high-compression COX head, or with the Merlin insert plug, PLUS most importantly, for their use of common - not the limited availability Nelson- turbo plugs (not just OS), which are sold in most hobby shops. So Kamtechnik head="eternal" availability of glow heads for my COX 049/050/051 engines.
balogh- Top Poster
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Posts : 4975
Join date : 2011-11-06
Age : 66
Location : Budapest Hungary
Re: Merlin inserts?
balogh wrote:This is not the place of commercials here, but the reason I bought a couple of Kamtechnik turbo heads was their interchangeability with all COX049 heads (and heads of Norvel 051/061 engines, which I have but do not use) at way higher engine output than with the stock high-compression COX head, or with the Merlin insert plug, PLUS most importantly, for their use of common - not the limited availability Nelson- turbo plugs (not just OS), which are sold in most hobby shops. So Kamtechnik head="eternal" availability of glow heads for my COX 049/050/051 engines.
More good info. Thanks Balogh!
Aero- Silver Member
- Posts : 73
Join date : 2014-08-10
Location : Southern IN
Re: Merlin inserts?
Wow! New to me heads. So these are similar to Galbreath heads but don't need Nelson plugs with odd thread pitch?
https://kamtechnik.com/product/ktk-11/
https://kamtechnik.com/product/ktk-11/
crankbndr- Top Poster
- Posts : 3112
Join date : 2011-12-10
Location : Homestead FL
Re: Merlin inserts?
crankbndr wrote:Wow! New to me heads. So these are similar to Galbreath heads but don't need Nelson plugs with odd thread pitch?
https://kamtechnik.com/product/ktk-11/
Yes, Doug, exactly this is the case...the Kamtechnik head has a thread size of any common glow plugs i.e. different than the unique Nelson thread, but a tapered bottom to seal with the tapered tip of the turbo plug. Wide variety of these common i.e. non-Nelson turbo plugs are sold in most hobby shops - even in countries where IC engine use in models is almost extinct, like in Hungary - from cold to medium to hot (the latter are used in RC cars I guess).
balogh- Top Poster
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Posts : 4975
Join date : 2011-11-06
Age : 66
Location : Budapest Hungary
Re: Merlin inserts?
For clarity. These are not for standard 1/4"-32 plugs. These take "turbo" style taper seat plugs which are common in RC cars. Any hobby source should be able to supply them, and if the local shop does a lot of cars they will probably have them. Turbo plugs allow for better sealing and more control over the shape of tiny combustion chambers.
gkamysz- Gold Member
- Posts : 419
Join date : 2018-02-22
Location : Chicagoland
Re: Merlin inserts?
Sure Greg, that is what I also meant...BTW do you plan to extend your turbo head offering to COX 020 and 090 sizes too? The prototype 090 you sent me works fine, and I guess Brad has also successfully tested the 020.
Thanks, Andras
Thanks, Andras
balogh- Top Poster
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Posts : 4975
Join date : 2011-11-06
Age : 66
Location : Budapest Hungary
Re: Merlin inserts?
Yes. .020 heads will go into production in the next few days. .09 shortly after, a change was made to reduce the number of gaskets required. NV .074 heads are coming also. I'll be adding items to the site this week and they will go live when stock is available.
To most airplane people a "standard" plug is 1/4"-32. I know you know about turbo plugs, but many outside of RC cars, have never heard of them. Just like most outside of competition airplanes have never heard of Nelson plugs.
Greg
To most airplane people a "standard" plug is 1/4"-32. I know you know about turbo plugs, but many outside of RC cars, have never heard of them. Just like most outside of competition airplanes have never heard of Nelson plugs.
Greg
gkamysz- Gold Member
- Posts : 419
Join date : 2018-02-22
Location : Chicagoland
Re: Merlin inserts?
gkamysz wrote:Yes. .020 heads will go into production in the next few days. .09 shortly after, a change was made to reduce the number of gaskets required. NV .074 heads are coming also. I'll be adding items to the site this week and they will go live when stock is available.
To most airplane people a "standard" plug is 1/4"-32. I know you know about turbo plugs, but many outside of RC cars, have never heard of them. Just like most outside of competition airplanes have never heard of Nelson plugs.
Greg
WHOO! Been waiting for them 020’s, glad to hear the 09 and NV also! Just to put a bug in your ear.....how about a head for a Testors 049! ??
Marleysky- Top Poster
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Posts : 3618
Join date : 2014-09-28
Age : 72
Location : Grand Rapids, MI
Re: Merlin inserts?
Marleysky wrote: Just to put a bug in your ear.....how about a head for a Testors 049! ??
I have samples on my desk I need to test.....
gkamysz- Gold Member
- Posts : 419
Join date : 2018-02-22
Location : Chicagoland
Re: Merlin inserts?
Oooo cool! If you want to slip one or two in the package with my order for the upcoming 020 release, I’d be happy to bench test them!
Marleysky- Top Poster
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Posts : 3618
Join date : 2014-09-28
Age : 72
Location : Grand Rapids, MI
Re: Merlin inserts?
gkamysz wrote:For clarity. These are not for standard 1/4"-32 plugs. These take "turbo" style taper seat plugs which are common in RC cars. Any hobby source should be able to supply them, and if the local shop does a lot of cars they will probably have them. Turbo plugs allow for better sealing and more control over the shape of tiny combustion chambers.
Guess I been out of the loop lately, sounds like a great product. Thanks!
crankbndr- Top Poster
- Posts : 3112
Join date : 2011-12-10
Location : Homestead FL
Re: Merlin inserts?
We do still have a number of clamp rings (2-fin and 5-fin in silver and red) in stock in case anyone needs any. Just not listed as what is the point without the inserts?
Re: Merlin inserts?
Bernie,
Without wanting to sound rude, the point is to sell an item even if one of your competitors' parts may be required. Is there any chance Mecoa would enter into a wholesale agreement with you for their inserts?
I hope to find all my inserts and measure them tonight. The Mecoa inserts are clearly identified as having a wider body than the AP clamps can take. I'm hoping knowing the AP width and adding the difference from Mecoa would yield the required hole size. Maybe your clamps will already have the required hole size for Mecoa's inserts.
KAM,
Any chance you'll develop replacement heads for the Tee Dee/Medallion .15 engines? I have two and would like to future-proof those engines with your offerings.
TIA
Without wanting to sound rude, the point is to sell an item even if one of your competitors' parts may be required. Is there any chance Mecoa would enter into a wholesale agreement with you for their inserts?
I hope to find all my inserts and measure them tonight. The Mecoa inserts are clearly identified as having a wider body than the AP clamps can take. I'm hoping knowing the AP width and adding the difference from Mecoa would yield the required hole size. Maybe your clamps will already have the required hole size for Mecoa's inserts.
KAM,
Any chance you'll develop replacement heads for the Tee Dee/Medallion .15 engines? I have two and would like to future-proof those engines with your offerings.
TIA
_________________
Never enough time to build them all...always enough time to smash them all!
944_Jim- Diamond Member
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Posts : 2025
Join date : 2017-02-08
Age : 59
Location : NE MS
Re: Merlin inserts?
944_Jim wrote:Any chance you'll develop replacement heads for the Tee Dee/Medallion .15 engines? I have two and would like to future-proof those engines with your offerings.
TIA
Prototypes are being tested now.
gkamysz- Gold Member
- Posts : 419
Join date : 2018-02-22
Location : Chicagoland
Re: Merlin inserts?
I just measured what I believe to be an NV at .332" diameter. An AP at .314" and a Merlin at .335" I suppose boring out the AP threaded clamp to .336" would allow any insert to work.
aspeed- Platinum Member
- Posts : 796
Join date : 2013-01-18
Location : Leamington Ont. Can.
Re: Merlin inserts?
944_Jim wrote:Bernie,
Without wanting to sound rude, the point is to sell an item even if one of your competitors' parts may be required. Is there any chance Mecoa would enter into a wholesale agreement with you for their inserts?
I hope to find all my inserts and measure them tonight. The Mecoa inserts are clearly identified as having a wider body than the AP clamps can take. I'm hoping knowing the AP width and adding the difference from Mecoa would yield the required hole size. Maybe your clamps will already have the required hole size for Mecoa's inserts.
KAM,
Any chance you'll develop replacement heads for the Tee Dee/Medallion .15 engines? I have two and would like to future-proof those engines with your offerings.
TIA
We have absolutely no problem selling parts if they compliment someone else's wares but, when we found out that Merlin was no longer in business, we took down the listings as we figured that no one would buy them if the inserts were no longer available.
Mecoa: Bad experience years ago and they still owe us money for products that we pre-paid but they never supplied; so definitely a no-go there.
However, if anyone wants the clamp rings, here they are:
3-Fin adapter - silver https://coxengines.ca/product.php?productid=2260
5- Fin adapter - silver https://coxengines.ca/cox-.049-glow-plug-adapter-extra-cooling-silver-5-fin.html
5-Fin adapter - red https://coxengines.ca/cox-.049-glow-plug-adapter-extra-cooling-red.html
Re: Merlin inserts?
Bernie,
Ouch! I hate when a deal goes bad too. I didn't mean to peel a scab there. I understand not wanting to deal with particular vendors. There is a Porsche parts vendor outside of Atlanta I will never deal with ever since 1995...expensive part not as described despite phone calls to that vendor for his word that the part was, well, as described. I actually drove to the vendor for the return of the mail order part, yet he held the $$ for a month before issuing the refund.
Just out of curiosity, what size is the plug hole in the clamp? I didn't think to bring my son's Merlin-equipped Scientific FW-190 home from work today (wall art at work for now). Tomorrow I will, so I can make a quick spreadsheet between Merlin, Norvel and AP clamps/inserts...including the Norvel .049 and .061 clamps.
I'm thinking out loud here without having my Merlin clamp handy...but I wonder what it would take to make a plug adapter that your clamp would secure in a Cox engine.
I know "the other guy" (not EXEngines to avoid ambiguity) sells a plug adapter for the Norvel .074 that is held onto the block with the oem clamp. But this means a clamp, adapter and plug...three parts instead of only two.
Ouch! I hate when a deal goes bad too. I didn't mean to peel a scab there. I understand not wanting to deal with particular vendors. There is a Porsche parts vendor outside of Atlanta I will never deal with ever since 1995...expensive part not as described despite phone calls to that vendor for his word that the part was, well, as described. I actually drove to the vendor for the return of the mail order part, yet he held the $$ for a month before issuing the refund.
Just out of curiosity, what size is the plug hole in the clamp? I didn't think to bring my son's Merlin-equipped Scientific FW-190 home from work today (wall art at work for now). Tomorrow I will, so I can make a quick spreadsheet between Merlin, Norvel and AP clamps/inserts...including the Norvel .049 and .061 clamps.
I'm thinking out loud here without having my Merlin clamp handy...but I wonder what it would take to make a plug adapter that your clamp would secure in a Cox engine.
I know "the other guy" (not EXEngines to avoid ambiguity) sells a plug adapter for the Norvel .074 that is held onto the block with the oem clamp. But this means a clamp, adapter and plug...three parts instead of only two.
_________________
Never enough time to build them all...always enough time to smash them all!
944_Jim- Diamond Member
-
Posts : 2025
Join date : 2017-02-08
Age : 59
Location : NE MS
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