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Post  Ken Cook Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:50 am

Yesterday, Philly Fliers had our Labor Day picnic. Unannounced, it was also a swap meet. I generally bring items regardless as I have stuff that I no longer need or use or someone else requested. I bring two planes to sell which were in beautiful condition. They sold within the hour and next thing you know I'm receiving 3 more models. I don't know why this happens, I try to get rid of them and they double in return.

               There was all kinds of freebies up for grabs and they were very nice planes. I personally look the other direction. In the back of my mind I'm thinking about Bob on the forum here and I just caved in.   Some people have no respect or knowledge of this older stuff and all the tears that took place happened within a hour. That to me was upsetting. In other words, if it's old, you know it's fragile and you treat it accordingly. I could've resolved this from happening if I just put it immediately in my truck.

       Unfortunately, a .15 size plane gets little to no respect and the cheapwads didn't want to invest any effort into it.

         The end of the day models were all over the exit of the field and our club president insisted they go immediately as nothing can be left behind. I brought it hime, I wet sanded it with 1500 and gave it a tad of rubbing compound and it was truly a diamond in the rough. The Fox .19 on the nose is a real turd. If one engine deserves to be sledge hammered, it would be that gutless piece of slag. In addition, the previous owner has the incorrect spraybar in it. The stock Fox uses the same spraybar as the .35 stunt which is turned down and this person has a K&B universal which is over .030" thicker. I think a pinwheel would be more effective mounted on this plane.

            The Ringmaster Jr. Flash ( Drum Roll)



          Ringmaster rescue Dscn3018 The K&B streamlined wheels are a real nice feature. They're pretty rare to find and they look and work great

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Post  Cribbs74 Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:34 am

Good save Ken,

The couple things that broke would have had to been addressed if you were to fly it anyway.
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Post  Ken Cook Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:00 pm

The table was also full of engines that were going to go into the trash because no one wanted them. I took 3 Enema .35's, a OS MAXII .29 steelfin, A shiny case Fox .19, OK Cub .074 which looked brand new and a bunch of other parts. All of these engines were locked so solid it took me all morning today and a bit last night to free them but I ran them all. The MAX .29 is sweet running with the exception that the base gasket is shot. The one Enema is the 5224 square venturi and it was the worst out of the bunch requiring me to heat it with the propane torch for at least 20 minutes. Once free, some fine steel wool and cleaned it up and it fired right up. Seems to be a strong runner. All of these would've been trash can bound if I didn't take them. I was somewhat forced to but it's a sad reality when I know where they came from which was deceased members of the club. So while most think they're collectables are tagged and waiting for that family member to cash in on them. They end up on a table at a picnic waiting to get thrown out.
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Post  rdw777 Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:44 pm

Kind of sad about the engines….. Glad you got them and even ran them…. Good to know they may have a chance to fly again….Different world these days…..
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Post  Cribbs74 Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:35 pm

Being a younger guy in the hobby I see it all to often. One man’s treasure is another man’s trash. That saying is supposed to go the other way around, but it works both ways. That is why I am a big supporter of using what you have and selling what you don’t need.

We all will die someday and I am going to get mine while I still can! Very Happy
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Sep 06, 2021 6:30 pm

Fox "gutless piece of slag," Enema's...........tell us what you really think Ken.  Smile  I really do enjoy your discriptors.  

Enya Enemas, hitting close to home.  Smile

They do get nasty.  I used to buy the worst that I could find, because they were cheap and I enjoyed cleaning them up.  Not sure if your a crock pot guy or not, but I just remove the glow plug, ensure the intake is open and boil them for a couple of hours.  They come out hot, leather gloves help get the head and case screws out without damage and go from there.  But you know that.

I keep thinking about all those model engines in landfills.  Tragic, exotic or not.  I sold some 40 odd engines on ebay a few years ago and was surprised at what they went for.  Just sold six Enya's, all different displacements lined up and pictured from smallest to largest.  Presentation. Was astounded at what they went for.  Both sales made me and someone else happy.  Landfills just mess up the enviroment.  Proceeds bought two more engines, Evolutions that Cribbs seems to have no use for.  Smile  Ok, so they are made in China.  Heck, most of the stuff in houses today is made in that country.  Sad, sad, sad.  

A couple of times a week I go through ebay looking for - damaged/broken/distressed/vintage balsa model airplanes.  Seems they have dried up.  Years ago finding two or three under those discriptors was no problem.  Many of them are sitting in my basement/loft right now.  If I could get half a dozen of you guys to drop by, we would fly the heck out of them.  And.....................someone would have to go home with that Anniversary Edition Cub, cause I ain't finishing the thing.
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Post  Ken Cook Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:15 pm

Recently, there was the discussion of clubs. The problem is that there aren't new members. You might get a straggler for a week or two but mostly old returnees to the hobby. When you do get someone interested, all the crap from everyone else gets dumped on them. Generally, unless you know the builder, your getting the problems he or she has dialed into the model. This is one reason why I didn't want anything yesterday. The Flash has many issues and while I can get it to fly, it will never fly like the one I built.

        While I'm a Fox fan, some Fox's are just much better than others. I have a club member who's infatuated with the old Fox .19 which I just obtained. Well, I gave it to him and told him to use it as a suppository. It's too heavy for the flash and the .15X makes it fly faster and better anyhow.

       https://www.facebook.com/PhillyFliersCL/photos/pcb.6116336838436399/6116334861769930/?type=3&theater  

       There was much more than this on the ground, many were for free and make a offer on what you wanted. This picture was taken towards the end and much had already been taken. At the end of the day, it was take it or it goes in the trash. It's pretty bad when the control line guys don't take something for free. There was at least a dozen 1/2A's, old Golden Bees and Black Widows. There was a Pinto with a Medallion and a Veco Scout with a Medallion. I passed them up. I don't need them or desire them. I have too much now. Dozens of plans and flying lines, handles, etc. Someone who wanted to get into the hobby could've made out like a bandit. All kinds of props and NO ONE wanted any of it.

Most engines used for our hobby are a dime a dozen. If any part is missing on a engine, be it drive washer, needle valve it's a parts engine regardless of how you know it runs. Your fighting a uphill battle selling a engine without a needle valve. They're becoming harder to find and more expensive. Just these two items can easily run into the $30 range.
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Post  rsv1cox Tue Sep 07, 2021 6:54 am

Great pictures Ken. The little kid standing next to the blue plane gives hope for the future.

I would have gathered up all that stuff. My joy is making something out of nothing. If it flys, and they always will, it's a bonus. It's the backyard flyer in me. Not much serious flying going on here. That said, I know there is a whole industry worldwide in a competitive regard within this hobby.
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Post  getback Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:20 am

That is Sad , But I know the feeling about to much stuff that you can't even find what your looking for . Not organizing the goodies can bee a destroyer for fun .
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Post  cstatman Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:10 am

if there are swap meets around San Jose, CA? I have not found them.

or where all the old farts go for coffee or to fly.

I LOVE taking "detrius" and bringing it back to live again.

I had a Ringmaster "rescued from the bin" - hanging in my rafters for ~18+ years.
i foolishly bought a WillyNillies.com 1/2A ringmaster kit, thinking it may be fun.

It led to stripping the old ring, cleaning up, repainting, repairing ribs, fresh leads, and reassembly.
cleaned up a fox.15, which may be too small, will see.

then I got the baby built, first photo is both while wing glue is drying. not sure why the photo is 90degrees sideways - - Yes, the monocote is cut back to allow for wood-to-wood glue joint

          Ringmaster rescue Img_1810

the almost finished baby in John Deere Green, with an .049 BobD helped me with
          Ringmaster rescue Img_1811

will try to get one or both in the air soon.


Your stories of motors headed to the trash brings tears to my eyes
once somone's treasured gems - now the family finds out its not worth millions and off to the bin... Sad
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Post  NEW222 Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:08 pm

Good job on both the new build and resurrection cststman!
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Post  getback Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:27 am

Charles , You can look here and go check some ole farts out 10 miles or more away https://www.modelaircraft.org/club-finder?city=San+Jose&state=CA&distance%5Bdistance%5D%5Bfrom%5D=17.02686&distance%5Bvalue%5D=37.3382082%2C-121.8863286 Planes look good too . Ken did you finish the Ringmaster your working on ?
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Post  rsv1cox Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:49 am

Love your JD green Baby Ring.

What did you use, the aerosol available at the JD store? Got a couple of cans of it myself out in the garaqe.

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Post  cstatman Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:34 am

yes sir, had 2 cans in the garage for touchups on the tractor. figured... might as well.
the yellow monocote was in an old trunk full of covering material from ~ 25+ years ago
and just used Krylon yellow for the stab.

wiped the whole thing down with some old Taco Bell napkins before spraying it. Cause, ya know - almoost as good as tacky cloth. Smile

IF I was a smart fella, I'd probably spray some fuelproof dope over the paint, just in case.

I'm not. I'll prolly try to fly it anyhow, and see what happens.


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Post  cstatman Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:36 am

@getback wrote:Charles , You can look here and go check some ole farts out 10 miles or more away https://www.modelaircraft.org/club-finder?city=San+Jose&state=CA&distance%5Bdistance%5D%5Bfrom%5D=17.02686&distance%5Bvalue%5D=37.3382082%2C-121.8863286   Planes look good too . Ken did you finish the Ringmaster your working on ?


looked it up, 2 RC clubs, 1 SAM, but their website is down - I emailed the contact, will hope for the best.
thank you for the link.

everything around here seems to be RC - although thats probably true everywhere now. So will keep trying.

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Post  Ken Cook Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:09 pm

Against my better judgement, I went and fixed the plane. I should've jumped on it which is my usual technique. The elevator was a easy fix, the controls were screwed as most planes are that I don't build. I fixed those and repaired the wing holes with packing tape. The silkspan used was too light and someone didn't dope it enough so it's as brittle as a potato chip. The engine almost got the sledge hammer treatment. I ended up boiling it it transmission fluid for 4 hours to free it up. You can keep that castor fuel. So, the plane went out with me on Sunday. I flushed the tank several times and put it up. There was all kinds of crap freeing up in the tank. I knew this was going to be a problem and if it wasn't for my son, I was going to jump on it. There's no flushing a tank. It needs to come out and it's built into the plane. The plane flew quite well and quite fast for the Fox .19. I put a 8x5 woodie on it. It really had a nice run to it. The engine surprisingly was in good condition.
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Post  rsv1cox Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:23 pm

The engine almost got the sledge hammer treatment

So glad that it didn't Ken. You never know what your going to find under all that goo. Sounds like you found a gem. That's the kind of plane that I like to find, needs just enough to get it in the air, but not a complete rebuild. If that tank was so gummed up, how come it didn't clog your engine? Boiled in ATF? Why not A/F?
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Post  944_Jim Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:39 pm

Geez,

Why can't that happen in my neck of the woods? Sigh...
Oh, because I'm the only plane builder/CL flier for miles around here!

Good for you guys. I like recycling a rejected plane, engine, anything. That is the cheap hoarder in me. However, I have several builds right now that need attention. So it is good that I don't have to deal with the heart ache of "what if..."

My hat is off to our resident Salvage Kings!

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Post  Ken Cook Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:11 pm

Bob, it did clog up the engine. The first run was pretty good and then the crap was vibrated loose and it kept ending up in the fuel filter I installed making the engine go lean and die. As for being a salvage king, I never heard that term and I'm not certain how to embrace that title. I did this stuff for over 40 years rebuilding wrecks and the likes. It's like those who restore vintage classics, you know where the problems are going to be and where the rust is. You also know that the time invested outweighs the overall project cost. For me, I'd rather build from new because I'm in control. My father offered great advice for me as a kid building. He said " Never build a tank into the model", make it removable. At some point, the tank is going to fail. So I asked him how I should do that and his advice was FIGURE IT OUT!!! Best darn advice you can receive in control line. I took this plane because I really didn't want to see it go to the trash. Now that I fixed it up I could give it away if I choose to do so. The Ringmaster JR Flash wasn't a common Ringmaster. You just don't see many of these and due to the fact that they were slightly more money than a Ringmaster JR, the cheapwads didn't buy them. What they didn't realize is that it's lighter, it flies better and the engine being upright has a slight bit more power not too mention the tank directly behind the engine feeds better.
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Post  944_Jim Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:37 pm

@Ken Cook wrote:     As for being a salvage king, I never heard that term and I'm not certain how to embrace that title.

Mr. Ken,

I just coined the term. It sounded bettery than Recycle Bandits, or Trash Diggers.

I meant it to give respect to the artists, mechanics, and engineers worldwide in their efforts of reconstituting a less desireable object I to something of value. Of course, I meant it in a comedic way, with no disrespect intended. I apologize if it didn't appeal to you.

Besides, any rebuild is a salvage operation, and I respect that kind of work. I've done some of my best work salvaging whatever poor item of minimal value came my way...an old Ranger, my 1965 Honda S-90, old model trains, kites in the trash at the beach (my young boys thought that was unbelievable!), etc.

Well, then there was the Scientific P-40...and the BHM Mossie, and a pile of others that were just wee bit beyond a quick patch job.

So, whatever anyone's motivation for salvaging is...it still is art. It is still respectable. However, as I work through a pile of 50-year old kits, and other antiques/wrecks under my watch, I'll wear that hat proudly!  I hope you can laugh with me, Ken. If not...I apologize.

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Last edited by 944_Jim on Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post  cstatman Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:04 pm

@Ken Cook wrote:while I can get it to fly, it will never fly like the one I built.  

just for the record?  this line keeps bouncing around in my head, ... and I really like it!

thank you
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Post  Ken Cook Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:53 pm

After the crappy runs I was receiving, I filled the tank with straight methanol and left the plane on it's tail for 3 days, I then pointed it nose down for another 2 days. I took it out to the field flushed the tank and started it, it ran a tank but I could still see traces of crap coming up through my fuel line. While it was running I shook the plane a few times and the stuff coming up the line was too much. I took it home and cut into the plane. This was indeed the worst tank I have ever seen in all the time in the hobby. The Ringmaster Flash will accept a two inch tank but the length is a bit odd and the placement of the filler pipes requires moving. So I was able to save the main portion of the tank. The tank was a Veco tank . Veco used the internal baffle. It was a good idea in theory, it works great for ruining your engine as it rusts so bad internally and all of that goes through the engine. Usually, they were rusted before you even filled it with fuel. Veco never cleaned the tanks and overtime they just become so bad they need to be thrown out. It took 3 hours to properly clean, and treat the metal and resolder it back together. Essentially, a new tank could've been purchased and installed in less time but this one seemed to fit nicely. The original builder cut this tank down from a larger one and adapted it.
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Post  Cribbs74 Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:42 pm

When does it fly again? Glad you were able to sort the tank out.
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Post  getback Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:21 am

Wow that's a lot of work to put into the old tank , but when it fits as you say just right and needs to bee done ,What do you do . Good to hear the fox performed past what you had expected and hopefully the plane will too . Good job on what you have did so far . Thumbs Up
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