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So I got a norvel Empty

So I got a norvel

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Help! So I got a norvel

Post  Lukemiester Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:31 am

So a few days ago I got a norvel 074 for $20 and I don’t know what fuel to use since it didn’t come with a manual. Any suggestions?

Also how do I adjust the carb settings on this? Huh...
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Help! Re: So I got a norvel

Post  layback209 Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:35 pm

@Lukemiester wrote:So a few days ago I got a norvel 074 for $20 and I don’t know what fuel to use since it didn’t come with a manual. Any suggestions?

Also how do I adjust the carb settings on this? Huh...

Sweet, that's a fantastic engine!!!! Used Sig 15% nitro 20% oil 50/50 castor to synthetic blend. Or Morgan omega 15% nitro and top the oil up from 17% to 20% with castor.

Another fuel option is Sig 1/2a fuel 25% nitro 20% oil fir added performance.

Needle settings are as follows.

Hsn 2.5 turns from closed.
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Help! Re: So I got a norvel

Post  layback209 Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:37 pm

So I got a norvel 20220120
So I got a norvel 20220119
So I got a norvel 20220118
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Help! Re: So I got a norvel

Post  layback209 Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:39 pm

So I got a norvel 20220121
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Help! Re: So I got a norvel

Post  944_Jim Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:48 pm

Congratulations...you stole it! I love my Big Mig .074s. I wish I still had the plane.

Feed it the same stuff you feed your Cox engines. IF it is NIB, be prepared to do a thorough break-in. I didn't call mine done enough for air work until about a pint was run through both.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=943S3SyWiwE


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Help! Re: So I got a norvel

Post  Lukemiester Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:03 pm

@layback209 wrote:

Another fuel option is Sig 1/2a fuel 25% nitro 20% oil fir added performance.  

Needle settings are as follows.  

Hsn 2.5 turns from closed.

I already have that fuel for my coxes so that will work out nicely Smile

And thank you so much for taking the time to take pictures of the manual! I’ll have to read through it sometime.
Thx for the needle setting too
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Help! Re: So I got a norvel

Post  Lukemiester Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:04 pm

@944_Jim wrote:Congratulations...you stole it! I love my Big Mig .074s. I wish I still had the plane.

Feed it the same stuff you feed your Cox engines. IF it is NIB, be prepared to do a thorough break-in. I didn't call mine done enough for air work until about a pint was run through both.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=943S3SyWiwE



Will do!
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Help! Re: So I got a norvel

Post  davidll1984 Wed Jan 12, 2022 4:09 pm

If the engine is new you will see feel a good pinch on the top of the cylinder Mine without the glow plug the piston wanted to stuck in the top of the cylinder the piston is super tight first atempt carful
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Help! Re: So I got a norvel

Post  getback Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:11 am

Warning if the engine is very hard to turn over or just don't want to ... It is NOT broken in and DON"T force it or you may break/bend the rod,,, If it turns through then it probably good to go . Darn good price if in good shape but if needs parts they can bee had http://www.nvengines.com/ Have fun !!
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Help! Re: So I got a norvel

Post  944_Jim Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:56 am

@getback wrote:Warning if the engine is very hard to turn over or just don't want to ... It is NOT broken in and DON"T force it or you may break/bend the rod

All of your break-in research will bring you back to the issue of exceptional top-end pinch. This pinch is from two issues...tight manufacturing, and the special coating that makes a RevLite a RevLite. Both are why these engines run so well once broken in.

I broke mine in by:
a) removing the glowplug and hand cranking 100 times while very well-oiled (use a big prop and a temporary hand-mount to hold the engine). This helps polish in the coating AND it teaches you where the pinch point is.
b) Bench-mounting the engine and running it. Remember where the pinch point is. It will feel "Squishy" as you flood an engine you don't know. Remove the plug to clear the flood. See GB's warning above.
c) Run the engine at a wet 2-cycle. You need to heat from the lean run, but you also need to watch the color of your exhaust residue (more on that later). Run the engine for 1/2 oz runs at first, and work it from wet two cycle to lean 2-cycle...no, not screaming lean, just enough to keep from slobbering-wet 2-cycle. Return to wet 2-cycle to cool the block/piston a bit. Increase the lean times to more and more as the engine begins to respond appropriately to needle adjustments (lean-rich-lean, wash-rinse-repeat). As the engine begins to run as expected, increase the run times to one ounce tanks.

More notes: These engines take some effort to master. Do not quit early. Do not use an electric starter until you understand how these engines feel when they lock up, and are broken in. Watch for hydro-lock (the squishy above). This WILL happen, and will continue until broken-in. Heat from a hot-air gun will increase the block diameter and minimizes that NorVel pinch to "not quite as bad." If no hot air gun, then a propane torch with the flat flame dispersal tip will do (watch out for fuel fires if doing this one!). You are only heating to uncomfortable to hold/touch. The exhaust residue will be dark grey in color...that is the special coating buffing off. The remaining coating will be getting burnished into the metals. This will make a mess of your model until the engine is fully broken in. You will see the color begin to lighten back to a more normal oil/byproduct color as the engine becomes fully broken in. These do continue to improve over hours of operation. And they will spin up if using a smaller than expected prop. the .049 guys take advantage of this in combat, with an expectation of eating a rod wrist pin. The more sport oriented guy will enjoy a better fuel consumption rates if slightly over-propped...add an extra head gasket since there will be a bit more load on the slower engine. I'll check on what prop I ran on my .074s and report later. Or there may a be a good picture of it in my build-log here (BHM Mosquito in MS). I miss that plane...sigh.
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Help! Re: So I got a norvel

Post  Surfer_kris Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:38 am

@944_Jim wrote:

I broke mine in by:
a) removing the glowplug and hand cranking 100 times while very well-oiled (use a big prop and a temporary hand-mount to hold the engine).

No, please, not that silly stuff again(!) That will just result in a too sloppy piston to cylinder fit.

You should simply break it in like you would with any high performance ABC engine, i.e. you put a small prop on it and you preheat the cylinder before starting the engine. It is heat that will, and should, relieve the pinch at TDC, not lapping the piston to the cylinder.... Rolling Eyes
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Help! Re: So I got a norvel

Post  Surfer_kris Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:52 am

@Lukemiester wrote:
Also how do I adjust the carb settings on this? Huh...

The RC carb only has a main needle and a throttle stop, the low-end compensation is "automatic".
The throttle stop screw is only helpful for bench running, and it can be removed completely once the engine is in a plane.

The low-end is a little sensitive to both fuel and tank position, so I have one made up with an adjustable airbleed and throttles really well. The recommended prop is the APC 6.3x4 and that will give you close to 17000rpm on 10% nitro. I prefer to run all castor fuel, 25% for running-in and 20% once it is fully run-in (takes longer than you think).

Here is a short clip of the RC version:


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Help! Re: So I got a norvel

Post  944_Jim Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:58 pm

Thanks, SK,

You mention in detail what I glossed over later in my post.
I'll go flog myself in the wood shed now.

I will straight up admit I'm not trying to RC a plane at 150 mph. I'm trying to enjoy a couple hours per month with little toy engines. I certainly don't want to haul heating equipment out just to crank an engine up...especially to fly.

I'm talking about burnishing the ceramic coating, not whirring the engine around with a starter for periods with no end in sight. If a well-oiled engine can't handle being hand-turned a few times, I think there are other problems. Oh, and apparently you clean-glossed over the section called "more notes," where I mention heat...and why heat. I did do lip-service to the "must heat it convention," I just don't think it is the exclusive panacea some make it out to be.

17500 div 60 equals 1050 revs per second during normal operation...I don't think 1 turn over a second at 100 seconds is going to ruin this engine, nor amount to any significant wear on hard parts. Even one turn every three seconds is five minutes of hand-turning. Again, I doubt my wee hand could cause engine damage in that time...nobody said "break out the toothpaste, Ajax powder, valve lapping compound, or starter/power-drill."

100 well-oiled turns will give the hand used to Babe Bees, Medallions and Tee Dees a good sense of feedback for hand-starting...long before the electric starter grinds down the crankcase snout, or before finger pads are cut to the bone on the backside of sharp propellor blades that don't want to move, and long before wearing the pinching taper off the block.

Enough of the coating will still exist and come off during break-in and early stages of operation that it looks almost like graphite oil spraying out. In other words, the coating is much thicker at first, and wears down (not off) during operation regardless.


Oh, and my 1983 Honda CB1100F had it's internals coated with similar stuff in the early 90s...and the coater specified:
a) burnishing rod/crank bearings, piston skirts, rings, wrist pins, and valve stems with a worn scotchbrite pad.
b) change oil once shortly after running for the same reason I mentioned above...the parts have to have some room so they don't gall the coatings on the hard parts during run-in. The bike still runs fine 30 years later. And it used to go 150 mph...and probably still could (just not with me on it).
YMMV.
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Help! Re: So I got a norvel

Post  Surfer_kris Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:16 am

@944_Jim wrote:
100 well-oiled turns will give the hand used to Babe Bees, Medallions and Tee Dees a good sense of feedback for hand-starting...long before the electric starter grinds down the crankcase snout, or before finger pads are cut to the bone on the backside of sharp propellor blades that don't want to move, and long before wearing the pinching taper off the block.

Cox engines are of a different construction, and one should not compare cox engine to the modern style of engine construction, like ABC and ABN. They do require very different run-in approaches.

The first advice on ABC engines is to never turn a new engine over without a glow plug in it, as this will risk galling at TDC. By preheating the cylinder and having the plug in, you will avoid that. The engine can then easily be turned through TDC, and can be easily be flipped over as much as you'll want to get a feel for the engine.

I think we went through all of this when Rusty got his first Norvel engine, there should be a long thread on that somewhere.
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Help! Re: So I got a norvel

Post  Lukemiester Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:48 am

Thank you guys for the advice. I’ll see if I can run it sometime today
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Help! Re: So I got a norvel

Post  944_Jim Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:41 am

Luke, is yours RC (throttled) or CL (venturi)?


Last edited by 944_Jim on Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:44 am; edited 2 times in total
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Help! Re: So I got a norvel

Post  Lukemiester Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:42 am

@944_Jim wrote:Luke, is yours RC (throttled) or CL (venturi)?
It’s throttled
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Help! Re: So I got a norvel

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