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Cox Engine of The Month
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"Cox .049 Marine inboard engine."

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Post  batjac Wed Jan 11, 2023 1:28 am

I’ve been back in flying control line for almost a decade, and I’m still in the roundy-roundy phase, with the occasional loop and wingover.  I fully acknowledge that my lack of progress is due to my fear of crashing.  Even when I built planes just for the purpose of crashing, I put too much into them to want to see them crash.  But I finally found a plane I don’t care if I crash!

A fellow club member found himself with several planes.  Apparently there was an estate sale where the previous owner of the planes passed on and the estate sale put ridiculous prices on the planes.  They never sold, and when the new owner bought the house the planes were still in it.  The woman who bought the house contacted the local RC club and the club contacted my fellow club member.  He went over and she gave him all the planes.  They were all in pretty bad shape, but some good engines and a couple of flying planes were there.  When he showed the flying planes to me I was suitably appreciative, and told him how lucky he was on the engines and couple of good planes.  Then he showed me the planes in the back on the trash cans waiting to go out.  Me being me, I looked at one of the trash planes and asked him if I could have it.  I figured it was salvageable, and if I crashed it it would be no big deal.  Really! This time I mean it!

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The plane is pretty much trash, but the wing seems straight even if the flaps are hopelessly warped.  I’ll cut them away and glue in new flaps.  Or, maybe I’ll just leave the flaps off.  Then it’ll be a Skyray wing.  I can cover the holes with packing tape.  I don’t know what to do with the crazy wingtips.  Maybe I’ll leave them as is and see how it flies.

The March Hare Mark
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Post  getback Wed Jan 11, 2023 5:51 am

Fly It for the fun if nothing else lol! It does look pretty rough , just make it safe and I know you will / not to much work though ! Is it a Skyray full body , would have been cool to see it before hanger rash set in , and think if you keep yours long enough they will resemble that creature ! lol!
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Post  HalfaDave Wed Jan 11, 2023 8:46 am

Hi batjac,

You have to be careful, posting FlightStreak photos here...!
It scares, the delicate RingMaster pilots away... Laughing

If the 'flaps' are warped, cut them away, do not need them. (Also scares RingMasters More !)

A wet paper towel and an iron + patience will straighten the wonky wingtips. Try it. It works.
Clear packing tape is your friend. (just remember to fold back the end)
If the bellcrank/controls are good....see if you can get them smoother.
Strap an engine on it.  Drywall screws and CA work.
Make a bladder tank. I use whatever parts of a latex glove needed.

You will have fun,
Dave

P.S. Planes like this tend to last longer, because you are not afraid of crashing it...
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Post  MauricioB Wed Jan 11, 2023 9:30 am

batjac:
I always, always think, it is these things that remain, when their owner leaves this world, how much enthusiasm, time and expectations will he put into each project.... I always even wonder what will happen to my things that I love so much, what they are my life, in short, I just want to leave a message of gratitude to you and your people, for having rescued these models, because they are not just model airplanes, they are dreams and illusions of other people who were there.
Congratulations and you will surely fly successfully!
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Post  GallopingGhostler Wed Jan 11, 2023 10:08 am

Mark, for a permanent fix, nothing beats getting it right. Wink It wouldn't take much to trim off the tip and adjacent rib bay covering, replace the rib and wing tip with a more stout rib and wing tip (original wood too soft), ditto with the flaps, strip original covering and refinish. Then, you'll have another plane in your arsenal to fly. Very Happy
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Post  HalfaDave Wed Jan 11, 2023 10:50 am

Hi All,
I like how we do not know,
How big the 'full fuse' Flight Streak is...
It makes it a Combat Streak...
Right?
Dave
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Post  batjac Wed Jan 11, 2023 2:20 pm

GallopingGhostler wrote:Mark, for a permanent fix, nothing beats getting it right. Wink It wouldn't take much to trim off the tip and adjacent rib bay covering, replace the rib and wing tip with a more stout rib and wing tip (original wood too soft), ditto with the flaps, strip original covering and refinish. Then, you'll have another plane in your arsenal to fly. Very Happy

If I did all that work, I'd be back to not wanting to crash it because I have time invested. Got enough of those planes...

Dave, you're right that this is a Combat Streak. I always wanted one, but had too many Flite Streaks to bother with a full fuse build.

The Carefree Mark
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Post  Ken Cook Wed Jan 11, 2023 3:18 pm

The Combat Streak is a excellent flying plane. It's lighter than the profile Streak, the engine runs are better due to having the tank behind the engine. They were also designed for no gear which means no drag and the maneuvers are tighter. When a plane like this has been boa constrictor'd it usually faces other issues. The wing is really pre stressed and vibrations can just shake the ribs to pieces. Hinges are failed or in the process. The engine crutch usually fails in short order and engine vibrations are uncontrollable. Stress cracks develop around the fuse to wing joint, etc. I would do a good pull test on the plane as well and insure that things stay together, aliphatic glues and celluloid cements don't fair well after all this time. Mark you do such a impeccable job at building. I don't know why you just don't build one of these, you won't regret it.
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Post  roddie Wed Jan 11, 2023 5:58 pm

I have the empty kit-box and instruction sheet. I think my Uncle Vin built one back in the 1960's.


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Post  batjac Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:11 pm

Ken Cook wrote: I don't know why you just don't build one of these, you won't regret it.

Then I'm back to a plane that I've invested so much time in that I'm afraid to crash it.

The Timid Mark
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Post  GallopingGhostler Wed Jan 11, 2023 8:07 pm

batjac wrote:
Ken Cook wrote: I don't know why you just don't build one of these, you won't regret it.
Then I'm back to a plane that I've invested so much time in that I'm afraid to crash it. The Timid Mark
That is what foamie ARF's are for. Very Happy The frothed Ghostler drunken
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Post  944_Jim Wed Jan 11, 2023 8:55 pm

"The frothed Ghostler..." Bahaha! Good one. It took me a second to catch foam and froth. Doh!

_________________
Never enough time to build them all...always enough time to smash them all!
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Post  Yabby Thu Jan 12, 2023 1:35 am

Sometimes there is stuff you have to do and learn on your own. When racing motorbikes there were times when my father and I hired the local roadrace circuit out for a day in the middle of the week and went out there so as that I could practice some stuff without other people coming by in the pits to give me advice (normally people I lappped in a race anyway. Lol. Weird. :-) ) and tell me the rights and wrongs and what I should do, or how I needed to change my suspension, or my fork rake was wrong. Far out! So, on these days I could just do!    Sometimes I think flying is the same. Flying at a club can hold you back in some cases. I have a friend who flies CL in a club in the city. He flies big CL planes with .35 up engines etc. cos they are better. :-)  After 3 years he has only just done a loop. He has awesome reflexes, hand - eye co-ord and no fear (normally) and is three (3) times Australian Bathurst Sidecar roadrace title holder. ( Overseas top level international riders contracted to ride at Bathurst in the Eighties, got to the circuit and refused to ride it and went home without ever even riding it due to the danger of the circuit). Yet my friend is terrified of crashing his planes! Lol. and so terrified of breaking them he can only loop after 3 years and can count on one hand how many loops he has ever done. The club members all watching, all advising, all know best (well meaning) can be a hold up in ANY sport/hobby/pursuit. Sometimes you gotta go out and do it on your own where you are free to have a go and succeed and crash without anyone else knowing or being involved.

Build a slab / profile like the ones I use out of 1 sheet of balsa. Build 3 or 4. Put an engine, tank, controls etc. on all of them, Just spray them with some cheap flat paint to add a tad of strength. No sanding, no covering, nothing, get a launch table and a stooge and take them out and go for it, and with any luck you get home with one plane intact and you have achieved the manauvere you were wanting to do. Maybe you achieve the manauver you wanted and wreck four of them. So what, 4 sheets of balsa and they only take a couple of hours to build. If you have one really good engine, then swap that engine across planes if you crash them if the engine is ok, as that keeps things constant.

Fly the way you want to fly, so as that you enjoy flying. Crash some cheapo quick and dirty built planes, get your touch, then you will feel much better about flying and going for it with planes you have built beutifully and invested in. Maybe you could build planes for 'Show' and some for 'Go' lol!

In saying the above, be clear, I am not saying clubs and coaching are bad. Coaching is excellent. Especially focused, consistent, one direction, understandable and executable, one voice coaching. lol!  Not twenty coaches in one day. I doubt your real fear is of crashing the plane, its all the crap you have to listen to when you do crash.

After standard loop and wingovers I practiced at flying my plane around a bit in and out of line during loops and wingovers to get more feel for what and how things happen with different up and down feeds. Doing first horiz eight, really a horiz S, was my biggest hurdle and I broke lots of planes in ways I couldnt have imagined and to this day really cant figure how I managed to get it so wrong for a while. Once I did a loop and flattened it off at the top to be inverted, went small distance and then fed down to the plane and it came back over I was absolutely stoked!!! It was worth every crash on the way. And since then Ive gone ahead in leaps and bounds. I reckon theres two tricks. You have to absolutely commit mentally, and you need to be very sure the wind is at your back when executing. And have a Brace of planes ready to go. Lol. I know thats three. But the brace of planes is not a trick. I always have to do that when I go flying.  lol!

Good luck with it. I cannot say its easy. It seems so now, but it was one of the hardest things I have done. One thing for sure. The plane 90% of the time is not and will not be the problem!!! I know with me it wasnt the plane. and I used a quick and dirty slab profile.

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Post  andrew Thu Jan 12, 2023 2:29 am

batjac wrote:....................
Then I'm back to a plane that I've invested so much time in that I'm afraid to crash it.

The Timid Mark

It looks like the silkspan has cooked long enough for the high shrink butyrate to put the squeeze on the wing rather than physical damage. What you want is a Q&D (Quick and Dirty) fix.

1.  Slice the silkspan right down the middle of the outboard rib bay, peel the covering off the wing tip and toss it in the bin.
2.  Cut both wing tips off even with the end of the LE, spars and TE and clip the leadout loops off -- toss them in the bin.
3.  Cut the flaps off -- toss them in the bin.
4.  Cut new ribs out of 1/4" flat stock (balsa, basswood or a venetian blind slat from Lowes) and glue on each wing tip (to heck with built up tips).  Make new leadout bushings from the ink reservoir in an old ballpoint pen -- drill and stick 'em in the inboard tip before glueing the inboard rib. Rebend the leadout loops.  Don't forget your outer wing tip weight.
5. Use your packing tape to recover each wing tip.  No fussin' around!!
6.  Your choice -- replace the flaps or just tape the TE to keep the oil out.
7. Keep telling yourself -- this is a POS plane, don't waste time on the fiddley stuff.  When I'm building a foamy, I have to constantly remind myself that it's a foam plane, not the space shuttle.

Ka-Banga Wanga!!  You're done with little time or money.  Fuel that sucker up and fly it like you stole it (which you sorta' did, with permission).  Very Happy

a--
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Post  Yabby Thu Jan 12, 2023 2:53 am

andrew wrote:
batjac wrote:....................
Then I'm back to a plane that I've invested so much time in that I'm afraid to crash it.

The Timid Mark

It looks like the silkspan has cooked long enough for the high shrink butyrate to put the squeeze on the wing rather than physical damage. What you want is a Q&D (Quick and Dirty) fix.

1.  Slice the silkspan right down the middle of the outboard rib bay, peel the covering off the wing tip and toss it in the bin.
2.  Cut both wing tips off even with the end of the LE, spars and TE and clip the leadout loops off -- toss them in the bin.
3.  Cut the flaps off -- toss them in the bin.
4.  Cut new ribs out of 1/4" flat stock (balsa, basswood or a venetian blind slat from Lowes) and glue on each wing tip (to heck with built up tips).  Make new leadout bushings from the ink reservoir in an old ballpoint pen -- drill and stick 'em in the inboard tip before glueing the inboard rib. Rebend the leadout loops.  Don't forget your outer wing tip weight.
5. Use your packing tape to recover each wing tip.  No fussin' around!!
6.  Your choice -- replace the flaps or just tape the TE to keep the oil out.
7. Keep telling yourself -- this is a POS plane, don't waste time on the fiddley stuff.  When I'm building a foamy, I have to constantly remind myself that it's a foam plane, not the space shuttle.

Ka-Banga Wanga!!  You're done with little time or money.  Fuel that sucker up and fly it like you stole it (which you sorta' did, with permission).  Very Happy

a--

lol! Awesome advice Andrew. Funny, but absolutely spot on! lol!

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Post  Ken Cook Thu Jan 12, 2023 4:03 am

You need to get over the fear factor. Flying a plane with possible warps and other issues doesn't result in learning. The first hurdle is getting a decent and consistent engine run. THE PLANE NEEDS TO NOT BE FLYING OUTBOARD TIP high or low. Looking at that wing, I already see the outboard flap drooping. Yes, putting a new flap on can assist but the rest of the wing is probably doing that as well.

I'm not suggesting that getting successful flights won't happen, it's just that old planes like you show can prove to be more problematic than the time invested in it. I say this especially the way you build. Not only do you take the time to lay it out and make certain it's straight, you do it with repetition.

          One doesn't need to make the plane look good which can save numerous time. Finishing a plane can take as long as the build. Even the ARF's are more of a problem than what they're worth. They essentially ruined the building mentality in my club. I've seen members putz around with them for almost 2 years trying to get them to work to their satisfaction. I just would laugh, I would never invest my time in something like that when it can be built to my specs with less aggravation.

      Most of the time the mentality is build a profile which I won't say is wrong but it can create numerous issues. A full body plane flies better for the reasons I mentioned prior. It also works better out of the gate as far as fuel delivery. If your using a Fox.35 for instance which is a great choice, a Fox offers a slight bit more power when mounted upright vs profile. It doesn't burp like it does when mounted upright as well.


           I'm not suggesting for you not to try this, I'm just saying your talents far exceeds most I know who do this hobby. It's like flying over asphalt vs grass, you just need to get over it.
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Post  Yabby Thu Jan 12, 2023 4:36 am

[quote=" It's like flying over asphalt vs grass, you just need to get over it.[/quote]

lol! lol!  Nope! I know that one for me would be just one step too far. I know if you dont try you can never do. But............   Yep, that one would stop me cheers Thumbs Up  Very good example of getting over fear factor. Thumbs Up and gave me a good chuckle at the rubbish I peddle sometimes. lol!
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Post  getback Thu Jan 12, 2023 7:36 am

I seen a kit for this plane is $150 Either way I agree with Ken you can't learn on a half butt plane , I can say i think most the planes i fly/flown have been this issue .And getting over it is a Building experience till you succeed at what your tring to get out of the hobby . Two Cents Just do it and have fun !! sunny
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Post  Ken Cook Thu Jan 12, 2023 3:25 pm

Original kits are not all that great and overpriced. The wood is more than likely too heavy and too old to glue properly. A new kit such as Vintage Performance offers a terrific laser cut version for $105. I have a Walter Umland version and it was nearly $130. Walter is not currently making kits now due to illness but hopefully he returns. No kit manufacturer puts in the time and quality as Walter does, bar none they're the best kits ever produced.
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Post  roddie Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:34 pm

I get attached to models.. including orphans that I adopt. I understand how you feel Mark. I really thought your "BTC series" would help you to not feel that bad if you stuffed one of them.. Laughing

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Post  GallopingGhostler Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:46 pm

Gee Mark, I even crash my good planes. Clyde Crashcup Ghostler. Very Happy

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Post  roddie Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:58 pm

roddie wrote:I get attached to models.. including orphans that I adopt. I understand how you feel Mark. I really thought your "BTC series" would help you to not feel that bad if you stuffed one of them.. Laughing


I wanted to "be you".............. or at least "be there" for those BTC model flights. Maybe just to assist.. like little Leonardo in that Clyde Crashcup vid. Smile
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Post  Ken Cook Thu Jan 12, 2023 7:19 pm

I owned a Tutor which I received from a guy named Ike. Ike was a Vietnam vet. Ike flew in a Cessna Bird Dog. He suffered from agent orange and his health was seriously compromised. One afternoon, Ike was really seriously winded from flying and just collapsed crashing the plane. He got up unbolted the engine and put the plane in the trash. I asked if I could take it. He gave me a sticker which was Vietnam military service stripes and kindly asked that if I fixed it to put it on the wing. That was the last time I ever saw him fly again. I fixed the plane years later and I retained that sticker which I did put on the wing. I learned to fly the pattern on this plane with a Fox .35. I was not real confident initially as I didn't want to crash it.

I used background images as a register when to pull out. I was able to get consistent bottoms this way and it also built my confidence in the plane. I was doing the hourglass and somehow on the downleg of the hourglass one of the lines got caught on the knob of my watch. I still don't know how this happened. I couldn't get the line off of the knob as it went between the knob and the watch. I instinctively grabbed the lines and tried to fly by just holding the wires. This wasn't successful and I drove the ole Tutor into the ground like a pile driver. In addition, the wires cut my hands severely. Don't ever grab the flying lines. I've seen this kind of thing happen when flying combat when wearing a hat. The lines can get caught in that button like knob on the top of the ball cap, the damn lines just know where to go and get stuck under it.

Once again, I had to make a entire fuse and wing repairs. It was really getting heavy and it wasn't always flying as nice as it did earlier on. It truly upset me to lose it everytime but it taught me a lot. It's one thing to learn the maneuvers. It's another if you want to try to fly at a contest. Your now under time constraints and that alone is enough worry which causes additional mistakes. Many tend not to realize how long the plane needs to run to accomplish the pattern. Sometimes the tank is just large enough. Spending too much time on the ground seeking a needle or additional laps can result in running out of fuel at the end of the pattern.
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Post  NEW222 Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:01 pm

Yep, those wingtips sure did shrink a little bit....... Wow!
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Post  batjac Fri May 05, 2023 10:05 pm

Okay, I had a little time to get back to this so I stripped off the wing covering.  Hoo Boy!  Worse than I thought.

I did it! I really did it! 20230502-155537
I did it! I really did it! 20230502-155546


I downloaded the Super Combat Streak plans from Outerzone.  I measured the dimensions on the ribs in the wing  so I could adjust the plans for the ribs so they fit in the existing wing.  Whaddayaknow!  The ribs as shown on the .pdf fit perfectly!  So, I drew up the rib in Inkscape and cut a test rib out on my Cricut cutter.

I did it! I really did it! 20230505-214033


I’ll try it out tomorrow, and if it fits I’ll cut out the other 13 ribs I need.

The Cautious Mark
batjac
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