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Cox Engine of The Month
May-2024
1/2A Nut's

"Cox Tee Dee .051 RC Marine"



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Post  TD ABUSER Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:27 pm

I am going to try a build technique I saw posted at another Control line forum....it is rolled 1/16" balsa sheet  that is soaked with hot water and then wrapped tightly to a wooden form.
The model was a TD .049 powered FW 190 and the build thread gives the planes key  dimensions and he shows a very impressive flight video too.
The major advantage to rolled balsa  is less weight and possibly less work
So once I saw this guys plane it inspired me to get a small diesel and give this a try.
I found a very obscure Warbird to base my project on.
It's a Rumanian fighter that I never paid much attention to..but it has very simple lines and that's what I was looking for...SOMETHING SIMPLE .
It is the IAR 80A with a top speed a little over 300 mph and they used it to defend their land from our bombers.
Oh yeah...their coutry WAS  spelled Rumania back then.

I have drawn 2  different wing positions and cockpit positions...not sure which I like best
I'm not sure where the wing needs to go and I won't know until all the major components can be "mocked up" for a trial assembly.
The object is to build the plane so that it doesn't need any lead.PAW .049 CONTROL LINE MODEL Rumani13
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Post  aspeed Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:46 am

Looks like a worthy project. The form may take a bit of time but then copies would be easy after the process is worked out. Some guys use towels tied in a knot to wrap the balsa sheet on regular fuselages so there are no masking tape or rubber band marks, and it soaks up the water. The process is kind of like the Norvel "Folding Flyers" from many years back. They used printed foam like the dollar store stuff I think.In any case I think it is lighter than using the coroplast like the SPADS, but it may not be fuelproof. PAW .049 CONTROL LINE MODEL Norvel11
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Post  TD ABUSER Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:43 pm

aspeed wrote:Looks like a worthy project.  The form may take a bit of time but then copies would be easy after the process is worked out.  Some guys use towels tied in a knot to wrap the balsa sheet on regular fuselages so there are no masking tape or rubber band marks, and it soaks up the water.  The process is kind of like the Norvel "Folding Flyers" from many years back.  They used printed foam like the dollar store stuff I think.In any case I think it is lighter than using the coroplast like the SPADS, but it may not be fuelproof. PAW .049 CONTROL LINE MODEL Norvel11

I never noticed those "folding flyers" before.!
If I had a "BIG LEAGUE" band saw and wood lathe the form for the fuselage could be made pretty fast.
The forward part is basically the barrel of a baseball bat and where the fuselage tapers there might be enough meat on a baseball bat to make this idea work...?
The wing's leading edge all the way back to the spar will be rolled balsa too.
The most abuse this model will see is while the engine is being started if it comes loose on the lines..then gets jerked back into recovery, or when it crashes.
The engine, prop and Visine bottle tank together weigh 3.5 ozs..so we're getting off to a bad start...
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Post  944_Jim Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:16 pm

This is a great time for Goozgog to pop in. Hit him up via PM to see if he will provide some guidance.

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Post  TD ABUSER Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:18 pm

944_Jim wrote:This is a great time for Goozgog to pop in. Hit him up via PM to see if he will provide some guidance.
He shows up regularly at the other forum with advice.
I'm posting this model here for those who like 1/2A but don't belong to a C/L only forum.
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Post  TD ABUSER Sat Feb 11, 2023 12:19 pm

Some progress....but maybe not in the direction I intended.....
Using the rolled balsa technique for the leading edge is pretty easy once you have made your form. I soaked the 1/16" balsa in a couple inches of hot bath water for 5 to 10 minutes....[but always test the wood for flexibility before you decide it is ready]
I used Scotch 33 Electrical tape wound "sticky side out" to wrap the balsa around the form. I used 6 wraps ...so the wraps were spaced about 3 inches apart.
After a few hours of sitting in front of an electric heater the wood was bone dry and I was ready to make another molded LE.
I used heavier wood here and there than Goozgog did with his FW190..plus I used steel [2-56 sized] wire for the flap linkage so the wing weighs 4.2 ounces before covering......not good.
I'm going to have to try again with lighter wood and with aluminum flap linkage.
All is not lost..the wing that is already built might be OK with a Norvel .074 / 7x3 combo..!PAW .049 CONTROL LINE MODEL Romani14
PAW .049 CONTROL LINE MODEL Romani15
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Post  TD ABUSER Sat Feb 18, 2023 10:49 pm

Wing #2 is turning out lighter.
I am using 1/8" aluminum tubing for the flap linkage instead of 2-56 steel wire.
The first wing gained some weight thanks to the rounded wing tips...so I think wing #2 will do without.
I still need to find some EZ HINGES...or else go with the old cloth type. If so...what type of cloth.....?
PAW .049 CONTROL LINE MODEL Alumin10
PAW .049 CONTROL LINE MODEL Rumani14
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Post  HalfaDave Sun Feb 19, 2023 6:06 am

Hi TD ABUSER,
Nice project, looking good !
If you want a nice light hinge, try dental floss and CA 'figure8' ones...
The key is hanging the floss off the bench with a clothes peg,
And making a 2in 'needle' with CA, above the peg. (yes, most pegs get back to the clothes line. Smile )
Drill as many holes as you want. I use 1/32 wire in a pin vice.
My next 1/2A will need only two holes per hinge.
Way stronger than balsa, try it. Cheap and easy.
Thanks for posing your project,
Take care,
Have fun,
Dave


Last edited by HalfaDave on Mon Feb 20, 2023 3:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post  aspeed Sun Feb 19, 2023 8:53 am

I used a nylon cloth hinge for years. Something that is thin and very strong that is impossible to tear with no cotton in the mix, like the outer surface of a windbreaker jacket. Lately I repaired a thread hinge that I got at a swap meet. It was not centering properly. I redid it with double or triple 8 threads every couple inches and it is better than I thought. Even looks pretty good. I used dacron lines but that is pretty much what dental floss is. I think unwaxed is best if you can find it in case you want to CA it to stop it from unravelling?
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Post  rsv1cox Sun Feb 19, 2023 9:22 am

PAW .049 CONTROL LINE MODEL Romani10

I really like this picture. Nice work. I'm eager to see your final product.

I have used the really wet balsa technique before in a very amateur way making a flat no rib wing for one of my Wen Mac P-26's with a curled leading edge. Wrapped it around an original wing. Turned out very good secured with multiple rubber bands.
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Post  Ken Cook Sun Feb 19, 2023 9:35 am

A Ace bandage works terrific for molding parts.
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Post  TD ABUSER Sun Feb 19, 2023 8:29 pm

HalfaDave wrote:Hi TD ABUSER,
Nice project, looking good !
I you want a nice light hinge, try dental floss and CA 'figure8' ones...
The key is hanging the floss off the bench with a clothes peg,
And making a 2in 'needle' with CA, above the peg. (yes, most pegs get back to the clothes line. Smile )
Drill as many holes as you want. I use 1/32 wire in a pin vice.
My next 1/2A will need only two holes per hinge.
Way stronger than balsa, try it. Cheap and easy.
Thanks for posing your project,
Take care,
Have fun,
Dave
Years ago I bought a spool of kevlar thread and this is exactly hown I did sewn hinges for my C/L Combat models. Just soak the end of the thread with CA and start sewing
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Post  TD ABUSER Sun Feb 19, 2023 8:33 pm

aspeed wrote:I used a nylon cloth hinge for years.  Something that is thin and very strong that is impossible to tear with no cotton in the mix, like the outer surface of a windbreaker jacket.  Lately I repaired a thread hinge that I got at a swap meet.  It was not centering properly.  I redid it with double or triple 8 threads every couple inches and it is better than I thought.  Even looks pretty good.  I used dacron lines but that is pretty much what dental floss is.  I think unwaxed is best if you can find it in case you want to CA it to stop it from unravelling?
I was never any good at making those "OVER and UNDER" cloth hinges with SIGMENT glue ...but they obviously work very well for many other modelers.
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Post  TD ABUSER Sun Feb 19, 2023 8:36 pm

rsv1cox wrote:PAW .049 CONTROL LINE MODEL Romani10

I really like this picture.  Nice work.  I'm eager to see your final product.

I have used the really wet balsa technique before in a very amateur way making a flat no rib wing for one of my Wen Mac P-26's with a curled leading edge.  Wrapped it around an original wing.  Turned out very good secured with multiple rubber bands.  
I wonder how it flew compared to the perfectly flat Goldberg wings made from 1/8" balsa sheet...?
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Post  TD ABUSER Sun Feb 19, 2023 8:38 pm

Ken Cook wrote:                  A Ace bandage works terrific for molding parts.

I might try the bandage for the fuselage. Otherwise I'll use bands of 3M 33 electrical tape wrapped sticky side out every few inches along the form.
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Post  944_Jim Sun Feb 19, 2023 8:50 pm

Mr. Chuck,
Please keep us informed here. I figured Keith Morgan would have some good hints regarding this construction method and was pleased to see him pop in "over there." While I'm enjoying the build on StuntHangar, I'll admit I like the bigger pictures here.
Thanks for sharing. Great job on the build so far!

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Post  TD ABUSER Sun Feb 19, 2023 11:43 pm

944_Jim wrote:Mr. Chuck,
Please keep us informed here.  I figured Keith Morgan would have some good hints regarding this construction method and was pleased to see him pop in "over there." While I'm enjoying the build on StuntHangar, I'll admit I like the bigger pictures here.
Thanks for sharing. Great job on the build so far!
Howdy Jim.....!
Keith has done a great job of explaining the details about how he did his FW190.
My eyes and fingers aren't quite good enough to work with 1/16" thick balsa any more...but I'll need to adapt.
Even slitting 1/8" thick flaps for hinges [without drawing blood] is an adventure now.
Anyway...I've always been curious about what it takes to build "THE ULITIMATE .049 STUNT PLANE" [out of balsa wood] and I think his FW 190 / rolled balsa technique is the ticket.
Besides that...this is a new way of building for me that EXCITES ME AND HELPS TO KEEP MY INTEREST AS A MODEL BUILDER FRESH.
I've done molded fiberglass and that's hard to beat for strength to lightness ratio but I hate working with all that super toxic crap.
.


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Post  aspeed Mon Feb 20, 2023 6:56 am

1/2A Nut was using 1/32" plywood for his fuselages for a while. Might have been 1/64th" I forget. It would only do a simple curve but I bet it is just as strong as a similar thickness/weight of fiberglass. I didn't see Keith at all last year at the Beanfield. He normally makes an appearance.
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Post  HalfaDave Mon Feb 20, 2023 7:07 am

Hi TD ABUSER,
I am 65 and have problems with my hands for a few years now. It sucks.
Rather than 'therapy', and squeezing rubber balls, I joined this forum.
So what if I am slow.
It is fun.
Your baseball bat shaped into an IAR80 is very cool...
I held Kieth's 109 in my hand.
First thought is. 'How did he get Helium balsa?'. Actually, it is very well placed medium balsa.
He started with 1/16th and sanded from there...
My goal is a TD1/2A Detroit I beam Stunter.
So many to choose from...
Take care,
Have fun,
Dave
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Post  rsv1cox Mon Feb 20, 2023 7:35 am

TD ABUSER wrote:
rsv1cox wrote:

I really like this picture.  Nice work.  I'm eager to see your final product.

I have used the really wet balsa technique before in a very amateur way making a flat no rib wing for one of my Wen Mac P-26's with a curled leading edge.  Wrapped it around an original wing.  Turned out very good secured with multiple rubber bands.  
I wonder how it flew compared to the perfectly flat Goldberg wings made from 1/8" balsa sheet...?

Wish I could tell you but I never flew it. I'm not sure if it would even get airborne. Only Wen Mac original parts are partial top and bottom fuselage pieces, rest is balsa. I really wetted the cutout wing then wrapped it around an original wing secjured with many rubber bands. Ace bandage would have been a better idea in a losing cause. But it turned out ok for my purposes.

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Post  944_Jim Mon Feb 20, 2023 8:50 am

HalfaDave wrote:
I held Kieth's 109 in my hand.
First thought is. 'How did he get Helium balsa?'. Actually, it is very well placed medium balsa.
He started with 1/16th and sanded from there...

I envy you. There are SEVERAL members on this forum that I would like to meet in person. Flying with them would be an extra treat!

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Post  aspeed Mon Feb 20, 2023 9:51 am

[I envy you. There are SEVERAL members on this forum that I would like to meet in person. Flying with them would be an extra treat![/quote]  There are probably only a dozen or so control line flyers in southern Ontario, so we tend to know each other over 40, 50 years.  Some of the events are mutual.  LA .25 racing, stunt, combat etc.  I may have flown for Keith, for sure was in the circle flying with him.  All the guys are pretty good.  They don't owe me money?!!!
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Post  roddie Mon Feb 20, 2023 10:07 am

TD ABUSER wrote:Wing #2 is turning out lighter.

I still need to find some EZ HINGES...or else go with the old cloth type. If so...what type of cloth.....?


I placed an order with Sig last night.. and although their stock is low while relocating, their EZ-hinges show as being in stock. I use those hinges exclusively.

link to Sig EZ-hinges

I'm enjoying your build and the subject model! Thumbs Up


Last edited by roddie on Mon Feb 20, 2023 3:05 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Sp)
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Post  944_Jim Mon Feb 20, 2023 10:54 am

I dunno how thin the elevator/stab is, but an old Floppy disk will yield a pile of hinges with really flippity-flippy elevators (and I imagine, rudder, flaps).
The trick is to cut the wood in parallel lines. I learned a double-edge razor secured to a shim and tabletop will cut the surfaces pretty accurately. Go slowly. Shim as required to get in the center of the parts.
Cut the floppy disk material into 3/16"x 3/8" strips (or however long to fit your slots)and insert into the parts as you would your EZ hinges. Lightly scuff the disk to remove the "magnetic" coating, and clean with a swipe of acetone-laced cloth for best adhesion. Pin them after installation if desired.

One of the boys' trainers took an absolute beating, yet the hinges survived admirably. I was shocked by how well they stayed in place!

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Post  TD ABUSER Mon Feb 20, 2023 1:40 pm

roddie wrote:
TD ABUSER wrote:Wing #2 is turning out lighter.

I still need to find some EZ HINGES...or else go with the old cloth type. If so...what type of cloth.....?


I placed an order with Sig last night.. and although they're stock is low while relocating, their EZ-hinges show as being in stock. I use those hinges exclusively.

link to Sig EZ-hinges

I'm enjoying your build and the subject model! Thumbs Up

I placed an order with SIG recently...mostly for wood but they also sent Thin and Medium CA and 5 minute epoxy.
The CA isn't real "hot" but it's OK
The epoxy is unusable...one of the bottles has partially "set"....so now I have to contact them and send them a photo of the unusable glue.
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