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Plans to revive the Cox .049 Tee Dee? Empty Plans to revive the Cox .049 Tee Dee?

Post  Cox International Mon Feb 06, 2023 5:19 pm

We are currently exploring the possibility of resurrecting the Cox .049 Tee Engine.

As we have all the drawings (I think), it would be exactly the same engine as Cox previously made.

Can we please get some opinions as to what retail price would entice you to buy one? (Engine only; no box, wrenches or printed instructions)

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Post  layback209 Mon Feb 06, 2023 5:46 pm

Oh wow, that is a very exciting proposition.  For me it would likley need to be comparable or in the ball park of the brodak 0.049 price wise.

I see they are out of stock now.  If it's made in North America, I'd be willing to pay more for sure. Throwing a number out there $125CAD and below, with aluminum venturi body and I wouldn't think hard about it at all. They are skookum engines, im slowly putting aluminum bodies on all mine  Very Happy . Excuse my ignorance if its way different than what the market is now a days.

I see an os la 15 is now 200, was 150 2 years ago.


Last edited by layback209 on Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:33 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Post  cmulder Mon Feb 06, 2023 5:49 pm

So it would be the exact same design/performance/ lifespan?
I have already more td's then i likely will wear out so i would not be buying complete new. .
If there where parts that improve on the original design like more power then i would buy those parts.

Have you checked the sale prices on ebay for used td's and would those prices be profitable?

A new version of the td 0.05 with muffler would be more atractive to me since those would be allouwed to be used on more club fields

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Post  Yabby Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:00 pm

Wow, thats awesone News! The engine is a veritable powerhouse. I would love to see them available again if for no reason other than parts availability, and it would just be great that such a great engine continues to be available, as long as it has a market and sells. I have many TD parts and TDs and am unlikely to buy more complete engines, but there are many TD parts I would like such as the gold/silver NVA (s) and other parts. For me price is pretty much at a pressure point as the Aus$ isnt great and add shipping........... That said, I am extremely happy with my Cox TD engines from both Vendors!!

I sincerely hope whatever you plan Bernie works out for you!! Thumbs Up Thumbs Up I am certainly no businessman, but you deserve things to go well for you whatever you do. cheers sunny

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Post  Cox International Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:02 pm

The engine would be identical to the one Cox made.

Did not check out used pricing, as we would only be selling new product.

Aluminium carb bodies add $17 to the price, so probably will only be a post-production option.

.05 TD RC would be cost prohibitive, as we would have to make all the parts (we already make most of the TD parts) and we would probably be looking at a $200+ price tag; which would be a tough sell. We know, as we sometimes get NIB 05 engines in and they don't exactly fly off the shelf (no pun intended).


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Post  HalfaDave Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:51 pm

Hi Bernie,
I have two matched TD.049s, bought here near Toronto. When they were very expensive new. 1970s?
I can send them to you, for testing results...
I am having more fun with my reedies these days...
If you could put a fine needle valve,
On a TD?
I am in... for sure...
Like a castor oiled smelly shirt... Smile
Take care,
Have fun,
Dave

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Post  balogh Tue Feb 07, 2023 12:21 am

Bernie,

The crystal box NIB Tee Dee 049 engines cost me USD 75...85 off of ebay plus shipping cost a few years back. It was about 3-4 years ago when I bought the last one, so I assume they still sell below 100 USD. I also have more than I can wear thin during my active years, but would certainly buy parts. The icing on a TeeDee cake is if the cylinder and piston are tapered bore, I know that adds to the difficulty of production, but could you make them with tapered bore?

I wish you success in this endeavour!
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Post  Surfer_kris Tue Feb 07, 2023 1:02 am

The cylinder and piston would have to be made properly, and that would go a long way I guess. No real need to make a full engine if there could be a supply of piston and cylinder sets that equal the performance provided before the Estes era.
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Post  HalfaDave Tue Feb 07, 2023 1:54 am

Hi balogh, surfer kris,

If you think there is a 'majic' Cox cyl/piston...
Good luck with that.
They all run great, some better than others.
If you think my 70s era TDs might have taper bore, SPI and whatever,
I can mail them to you. If you want.
I would like to mail them to Bernie.
He knows what to do.

I had a friend with a single port BabyBee. Swordsman18. It spent a frozen winter under his back deck.
Spring came.
All the 'dual ports' , same nitro could not match it. Same props, everything else we could try.
This is the fun,
Of Cox Engines,
For me,
Dave
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Post  balogh Tue Feb 07, 2023 2:30 am

Thanks, Dave,

in my experience the taper bore is primarily important for engine longevity..an old stock TD051 with taper bore  I have has around 300 hours on its clock and still works well..Loose fit Estes era COX engines will certainly lose their compression much earlier.

Engine longevity is, I believe, important in times when you do not get a Tee Dee just walking in the hobby shop nearest to you , at least not in my part of the world, where even replacement parts are not available on the entire continent, or at least not in the EU, so importing them is a matter of time and extra cost.

Otherwise I agree that as long as new, and well fit, taper and no taper, but otherwise identically ported COX cylinders can work to the same output.
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Post  coxaddict Tue Feb 07, 2023 3:45 am

Since this is just an exploration, explore the possibility of making the cylinder out of chromed brass or aluminum, and an aluminum piston with wrist pin. That should up the performance to current style engines i.e., Norvels. I would pay over 150 USD for an engine with those specs.  Heck you could probably sell the piston/cyl. sets as performance upgrades if it worked.  Huh... Shocked Laughing
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Post  cmulder Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:03 am

I also like to buy parts that improve performance.
A crankcase with a bronze bearing pressed in might also be a way to improve performance or lifespan.

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Post  cmulder Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:08 am

Could the new run have the fine pitch needle valve like the kk upgrade version?
I could use a few to upgrade my current td's
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Post  1/2A Nut Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:16 am

Could do a single exhaust port .049 cylinder option part with 3 cut bypass ports like the MK II .15

Flying .8cc engine should pick up some power 20w +. RC Plane
Can do 120 tpi NV rather than stock.

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Post  HalfaDave Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:58 am

Hi balogh,

I can send you one of my early TD.049s. Which one do you want?
All I am saying is,
If I 'need' an extra 500rpm, I have not needed it yet.
I like my 'reedies'...(with throttles!)
Bernie is building new TDs,  it is totally awesome!
I think he knows what he is doing,
I like that.
Just trying to help out.
Plus, Canadian post is way easier for me...
Also,
Noise complaints,
Start around 18K...
Your results,
May vary,
Dave

P.S. Bernie, can I buy the first one for $100 CDN?


Last edited by HalfaDave on Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post  balogh Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:07 am

Thanks Dave, for your generous offer, but I indeed do have more TeeDee-s - including old-stock from the 1960 and early 1970 production pieces, all with taper bore - than I will ever be able to give  airtime to...I stopped buying them about 3-4 years ago, because - while it is hard to resist temptation even today - I managed to prevail over my hoarding frenzy lol!

Again, performance-wise I would not differentiate between the taper (old stock)  and non-taper (post 1972-74 or so) engines, if they have the same porting and initial, good compression...I beef them with Kamtechnik heads, so no complaints about the extra rpm-s I do manage to squeeze out from any of my COX engines that adopt Kamtechnik heads..

As to noise, I am flying absolutely as an outlaw, due to the hard-to-comply drone laws and scarcity of vast, flyable uninhabited areas here, where noise is just an added offense...my engines rarely go below 21k when unloading in the air, and I seldom use the mufflers - mainly on 09-s - that will not help on me being and outlaw flyer, anyway... lol!

But apart from myself, others may still be interested in taper bore TeeDee replacement cylinders, this is why I put this initiative forward to Bernie...
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Post  Cox International Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:22 am

HalfaDave wrote:Hi Bernie,
 I have two matched TD.049s, bought here near Toronto. When they were very expensive new. 1970s?
I can send them to you, for testing results...
   I am having more fun with my reedies these days...
If you could put a fine needle valve,
On a TD?
I am in... for sure...
Like a castor oiled smelly shirt... Smile
Take care,
Have fun,
Dave


Thanks Dave but we generally have 049 and 051 TDs in stock all year round, purchased from estate sales etc. Just sold our last 049 a couple of days ago but still have 051 in stock.

We will likely not mess with the design because of parts interchangeability going back 50 years.
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Post  Cox International Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:25 am

balogh wrote:Bernie,

The crystal box NIB Tee Dee 049 engines cost me USD 75...85 off of ebay plus shipping cost a few years back. It was about 3-4 years ago when I bought the last one, so I assume they still sell below 100 USD. I also have more than I can wear thin during my active years, but would certainly buy parts. The icing on a TeeDee cake is if the cylinder and piston are tapered bore, I know that adds to the difficulty of production, but could you make them with tapered bore?

I wish you success in this endeavour!

Thanks Andras but we just did a run of several thousand cylinders (non-tapered). Tapering adds substantially to the price. Currently, we are selling non-tapered sets for $20 and people are already complaining about the price.
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Post  Cox International Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:27 am

Surfer_kris wrote:The cylinder and piston would have to be made properly, and that would go a long way I guess. No real need to make a full engine if there could be a supply of piston and cylinder sets that equal the performance provided before the Estes era.

We actually had thousands of cylinder / piston sets made and they equal pre-Estes performance, and can be purchased on our website.
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Post  Cox International Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:30 am

HalfaDave wrote:Hi balogh, surfer kris,

If you think there is a 'majic' Cox cyl/piston...
Good luck with that.
They all run great, some better than others.
If you think my 70s era TDs might have taper bore, SPI and whatever,
I can mail them to you. If you want.
I would like to mail them to Bernie.
He knows what to do.

I had a friend with a single port BabyBee. Swordsman18. It spent a frozen winter under his back deck.
Spring came.
All the 'dual ports' , same nitro could not match it. Same props, everything else we could try.
This is the fun,
Of Cox Engines,
For me,
Dave

Thanks Dave and we have plenty of tapered samples, going back several decades.

Unfortunately, there is plenty of myth around performance in regards to compression and taper. The truth is way more sober lol.
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Post  Yabby Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:35 am

Cox International wrote:
Surfer_kris wrote:The cylinder and piston would have to be made properly, and that would go a long way I guess. No real need to make a full engine if there could be a supply of piston and cylinder sets that equal the performance provided before the Estes era.

We actually had thousands of cylinder / piston sets made and they equal pre-Estes performance, and can be purchased on our website.

I purchased the recently made cyclinders that were available, SPI and slottted and they all had fantastic compression and perfrom exceptionally well.

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Post  Cox International Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:35 am

coxaddict wrote:Since this is just an exploration, explore the possibility of making the cylinder out of chromed brass or aluminum, and an aluminum piston with wrist pin. That should up the performance to current style engines i.e., Norvels. I would pay over 150 USD for an engine with those specs.  Heck you could probably sell the piston/cyl. sets as performance upgrades if it worked.  Huh... Shocked Laughing

Although it's a nice thought, it will not happen, sorry.

As a two-person company, we have neither the financial resources, not the expertise to engineer anything. Personally, I have been a marketing person all my life and machine shops usually cringe when I try to hold engineering conversations with them Wink

If we proceed with the project, the parts would be identical to what Cox made; thus ensuring parts interchangeability going back decades.

A run of 1,000 engines will cost around $40,000; funds that we currently don't have.
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Post  Cox International Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:38 am

cmulder wrote:I also like to buy parts that improve performance.
A crankcase with a bronze bearing pressed in might also be a way to improve performance or lifespan.


Please see our replies to like posts such as yours.
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Post  Cox International Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:39 am

1/2A Nut wrote:  Could do a single exhaust port .049 cylinder option part with 3 cut bypass ports like the MK II .15

Flying   .8cc engine should pick up some power 20w +.  RC Plane
Can do 120 tpi NV rather than stock.

Snowman  Small Cox Logo  Thumbs Up

Please see our replies to similar posts as yours.
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Post  Cox International Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:43 am

HalfaDave wrote:Hi balogh,

I can send you one of my early TD.049s. Which one do you want?
All I am saying is,
If I 'need' an extra 500rpm, I have not needed it yet.
I like my 'reedies'...(with throttles!)
Bernie is building new TDs,  it is totally awesome!
I think he knows what he is doing,
I like that.
Just trying to help out.
Plus, Canadian post is way easier for me...
Also,
Noise complaints,
Start around 18K...
Your results,
May vary,
Dave

P.S. Bernie, can I buy the first one for $100 CDN?

Dave,

Almost certainly they will cost more than CA$ 100, unfortunately.

As to postage, the sad truth is that it costs us $25 to send an engine to Ontario (within our own country), as compared to $8 to the USA and $10 to anywhere else in the world.
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