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Post  batjac Fri Jun 30, 2023 4:11 pm

RC planes are so much heavier than control line planes.  My Black Widow powered Baby Ringmaster is 4.5 ounces.  My Black Widow powered Q-Tee is 17.5 ounces.  And that's not overweight.  The original plans/article for the Q-Tee has a recommended weight of 16-20 ounces.

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Post  GallopingGhostler Fri Jun 30, 2023 5:16 pm

batjac wrote:RC planes are so much heavier than control line planes. My Black Widow powered Baby Ringmaster is 4.5 ounces. My Black Widow powered Q-Tee is 17.5 ounces. And that's not overweight. The original plans/article for the Q-Tee has a recommended weight of 16-20 ounces. The Obvious Mark

Some discussion in https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1517470-What-is-an-acceptable-wing-loading

Wing area of Q-Tee is 250 sq. in. according to RCM. 17.5 / 250 x 144 = 10.0 oz./sq. ft.
Pat King plans, Baby Ringmaster is 95 sq. in. wing area. 4.5 / 95 x 144 = 6.8 oz./sq. ft.

At first I thought it may be that overall, the CL plane would have a heavier wing loading but it doesn't. Unscientific reasoning, but Q-Tee has a larger flight envelope (whole field versus circle).

Discussion, one posted in that thread, which sounds about right:
RCG: Terry Pieters wrote:Going back to some figures I came across
Gliders    less than 10oz/sqft
Trainers                  15oz/sqft
Sport                        20oz/sqft
Combat   more than 25oz/sqft
These are approximations but I generally find under 12oz/sqft nice and floaty and can fly sslowly

I dunno, all I know is my Q-Tee was light enough with the R/C gear I equipped it with, and flew great, both as rudder only and as rudder/elevator. Surprised
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Post  roddie Fri Jun 30, 2023 6:40 pm

batjac wrote:RC planes are so much heavier than control line planes.  My Black Widow powered Baby Ringmaster is 4.5 ounces.  My Black Widow powered Q-Tee is 17.5 ounces.  And that's not overweight.  The original plans/article for the Q-Tee has a recommended weight of 16-20 ounces.

The Obvious Mark

Yea.. but try flying that CL Baby Ringmaster at even 1/2 the weight (8.7oz.) of your RC Q-Tee. There's such different dynamics at play between the two types of controlling. I believe that a  conventional control-line model airplane requires a lot more "thrust" to be able to perform aerobatics.. than does a comparable radio-control model airplane. I'd also bet that a control-line airplane burns much more fuel than a radio-control model airplane.. if the fuel economy could be measured with a degree of accuracy.
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Post  1/2A Nut Fri Jun 30, 2023 7:31 pm

https://rcplanes.online/cg_wing.htm

Link above to calc. wing loading.

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TD .051 Nano II has 75 sq. in 3ch 8.1oz RTF
15.55 oz/sq. ft. (glides in nice and steady)

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Post  andrew Fri Jun 30, 2023 11:15 pm

My inclination is to keep 1/2A weights below 14 oz/ft2 for RC.  My avatar, the Honker, comes in at 11.6oz/ft2 and will fly out of my hand with a gentle push.  

Although the newer Spectra line is both significantly lighter and smaller in diameter than the older Dacron line, it still adds considerable drag to the C/L planes that the RC planes don't have to overcome.  Consequently, model weight being hauled by the engine may appear much "greater" than the actual physical weight of the plane itself.
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Post  balogh Fri Jun 30, 2023 11:58 pm

Wing loading is only one aspect of how well a plane flies. Aerodynamic forces including the lift are proportional with speed on the 2nd power. If the plane generates too much drag because the wings and fuselage are too thick, and the speed of the plane is reduced, it will soon stall when the engine stops and the plane glides and decelerates and become difficult to control.

I am still astonished at how long my Tigercat RC pylon racer (https://www.coxengineforum.com/t16635-tigercat-rc-pylon-racer-build-project?highlight=Tigercat) , weighing more then 20 ounces and pulled by a 049 TeeDee glides with the engine stopped, thanks to its otherwise slender design..I am not at home to check the wing loading but it is near the upper end of recommended range for sure.
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Post  getback Sat Jul 01, 2023 5:06 am

About all of mine are Canada Day Flag Fireworks Very Happy
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Post  HalfaDave Sat Jul 01, 2023 8:29 am

Hi All,
Here's my take:
R/C=an Orange. C/L=an Apple. Or vice versa ! Very Happy
My 21oz Honker flew great. Hauling old Heathkit r/c gear. All weather. Could thermal with it.
My 6oz C/L 'Pirana' with same power flies great on 40ft lines.
Ask Aspeed about line drag ! Very Happy
Just have fun.
I like 16oz/sq.ft goal for r/c < .25. All weather flying.
Take care,
Have fun,
Dave
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Post  KariFS Sat Jul 01, 2023 9:04 am

I guess a lot of a C/L plane’s thrust is spent on keeping the lines tight and the lines cause a lot of drag too. Hence the need of more horsepower per ounce, even if the wing load may be similar.

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Post  gkamysz Sat Jul 01, 2023 1:34 pm

What kind of equipment do you have in it? Radio gear today is so much lighter than when it was published.
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Post  GallopingGhostler Sat Jul 01, 2023 2:29 pm

When I built my R/C planes, I didn't have a weight scale but didn't need one. If you built and equipped per plans / instructions even with then standard servos & battery pack, it would fly as intended.

Q-Tee was designed to haul then standard R/C flight pack. I had Dunham Bantum mini servos & lighter 225 mAh 4.8 V nicad batteries, so I was within limits being lighter, flew well under Golden Bee power.

Actually, I take that back. I did have a small handheld balancing beam manual postal weight scale, it provided a confidence check. Wink
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Post  GallopingGhostler Sat Jul 01, 2023 8:20 pm

Regarding drag of the lines for half-A C/L, the 30 feet of Dacron, I remember that once my 20" Sterling Beginners Fokker E-III Eindecker profile with Babe Bee engine quit, it would just sort of fall out of the sky. It immediately lost most of its forward velocity, from about 5 feet up would sort of mush in not even making a quarter circle. It was probably as light as Mark @getback 's.

The larger plane, Ringmaster .35 S1, would gently glide for at least 3/4 of a lap. If I whipped it a little, I could extend the glide.

The R/C's, all the ones I built, they weren't super draggy but weren't super streamlined either. Still, they had a decent glide slope, not like a glider, but still reasonable. I just had to make sure I kept a reasonable glide slope not to stall it.

The rudder only jobs, they were in essence trimmed like free flights anyway. I just made sure that I used gentle turns and killing any stall caused by accelerating during turning (tends to nose down) by kicking opposite rudder.

I got to where I could land a dead stick single channel within ten feet of me.
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Post  batjac Sun Jul 02, 2023 1:06 am

GallopingGhostler wrote:When I built my R/C planes, I didn't have a weight scale but didn't need one. If you built and equipped per plans / instructions even with then standard servos & battery pack, it would fly as intended.

Actually, I take that back. I did have a small handheld balancing beam manual postal weight scale, it provided a confidence check. Wink

This is the scale I had back when I originally built the Q-Tee, a four ounce postal letter scale:


RC planes are so much heavier! 20230702-005048



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Post  roddie Mon Jul 03, 2023 3:27 pm

balogh wrote:
I am still astonished at how long my Tigercat RC  pylon racer (https://www.coxengineforum.com/t16635-tigercat-rc-pylon-racer-build-project?highlight=Tigercat)  , weighing more then 20 ounces and pulled by a 049 TeeDee glides with the engine stopped, thanks to its otherwise slender design..I am not at home to check the wing loading but it is near the upper end of recommended range for sure.

When the engine cuts at 130+ mph... I'm sure that a 1/2A pylon racer is going to glide pretty well/far.. Laughing (sorry Andras.. I'm just messin' with ya'  Smile )
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Post  balogh Tue Jul 04, 2023 12:30 am

Roddie it flies much slower than that. lol! The glide is very stable even at landing by the time the plane has decelerated.
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Post  loristevenss Sat Mar 02, 2024 1:41 am

Yes, RC airplanes do tend to be heavier. I also have a p-61 black widow
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Post  rsv1cox Sat Mar 02, 2024 7:35 am

RC planes are so much heavier?

Parkzone T-28 foam electric (w/battery) four channel R/C, 16" wing 1.33 oz Vs. Home-built C/L w/ Cox .049 foam board/balsa 17" wing 4.69 oz.

RC planes are so much heavier! P1017217
RC planes are so much heavier! P1017218
RC planes are so much heavier! P1017216

It's all about that lump in the nose.  Smile and modern day electronics.
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Post  1/2A Nut Sat Mar 02, 2024 9:33 am

The lowest weight 3ch for me thus far is a TD .049 / throttle sleeve @ 6oz less fuel.
A redesign in material use and slim up could yield a 3ch @ 5.3oz

It is possible to build a 4.8oz 2ch with a reed .049
Example 47.8g for the reed BL leaves 3.02oz for frame and 2ch gear.

RC planes are so much heavier! 8472610

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